Lost

[jahilia]

I was under the impression that Christian was an avatar...but as Locke has resurrected, so it becomes apparent that Christian is 'undead'. Christian did appear to Jack in LA...but he was he just a vision?

 

One thing I noticed in that scene was that the smoke alarm was going off when Jack saw his father in the hospital - they even made a point of showing Jack climb on a chair to turn it off. Of course, this made me think that Christian was a manifestation of the black smoke. I don't know if Hurley's visions of Charlie and Eko are the same thing, or if they are just all in his head - Hurley playing chess with an invisible Eko seems to suggest that they are just hallucinations.

 

After re-watching episode 7, I'm starting to think that it's Jack who is the important one. Boone did tell Locke that he was supposed to bring the family back together - was he talking about the Shepards? Ben and Widmore just know that they can manipulate Locke by telling him that he's special, but Jack is not so easily manipulated. Jack needs something to fix, so they tell him that everyone on the island will die if he doesn't go back. He is visited by his dead father, Locke tells him Christian says hi, etc. I think that maybe Jack will be the next leader - but first he has to make the journey from man of science to man of faith. There was great importance placed on the need for all of them to go back, but when Ben showed up with just Jack and Sun, all of a sudden it wasn't so important that they all be there - which makes me think that the one they need is already there.

 

Another possibility is that Sun is more important than I previously thought. "Bring(ing) the family back together" could refer to her, Jin and Ji-Yeon. Did anyone notice Ben's face when Locke told him Jin was still alive? I think that was a major game changer for Ben. Maybe there is some kind of prophesy or island mythology about a child conceived on the island. That seems a pretty important point - as far as we know, Ji-Yeon is the only child conceived on the island. I don't know how they'll get Ji-Yeon to the island, but Sun doesn't seem too concerned about leaving her behind.

 

 

Widmore seemed to want Locke alive; after all, he had plenty of opportunity to kill him between Locke's landing in Tunisia and having Abbadon drive him all over the world. Ben twice made the attempt to take Locke's life and ultimately succeeded. So I guess the real question is whether or not John did indeed have to die.

 

Here's a thought I just had...Ben said that he couldn't return to the island after turning the wheel, let's give him the benefit of the doubt here and say he's telling the truth. But maybe the "rules" allow your return if you bring back the body of your successor. Ben would have to bring back Locke's body, and Widmore (if he did move the island) would have to bring back Ben's body.

 

Now that I think about it, Widmore is lying about being the leader of the Others, unless by "my people" he means the Dharma Initiative. I’m pretty sure that he’s the one behind DI – we know that he sent the freighter crew and Keamy refers to the secondary protocol, which has a Dharma logo on the cover (the Orchid, I think). He also has some connection with Ms. Hawking and the Lamppost Station. I think his exile occurred during the Purge, when Richard and Ben gassed the DI. Twenty years later he spots the island when Charlie turned off the jamming signal and sends the freighter crew to capture Ben. He can't kill Ben while Ben is on the island, anymore than Ben could have killed Locke on the island - but we know that, off island, he and Sun have "common interest" - killing Ben Linus.

 

If Ms. Hawking is working for Widmore, then he knows about the event windows - only he needs Ben's body to return to the island. Ben, in turn, needs Locke's body to return to the island. It was Richard that first told Locke that he had to die - maybe this is to ensure Ben's return to the island, I think Widmore returning would be a bad thing for Richard/the island. When Ben heard the name Eloise Hawking, he realized that they are entering the endgame and he didn't have much time - he has to kill Locke and get back to the island before Widmore kills him.

 

Edited for clarity.

[Guest Gym Teacher Man]

I'm starting to think that it's Jack who is the important one.

 

I've sort of always been on board with that thought. He's seemed to be the central character of the show since the beginning. I like your saying he needs to

make the journy from man of science to man of faith

. Good thoughts.

[Mystik Spiral]

This is sort of how I envisioned it: The new plane was crashing and was right above the main island when the island jumped in time. The time jumping effects people who have been on the island different lengths of time...differently. The others don't jump with the island, but the oceanic 815 people do jump. So all the oceanic 815 survivors time jumped out of the plane when the flash hit, and fell from the sky in the past. Locke didn't jump because he wasn't alive yet (I don't think dead people jump through time), Ben didn't jump because he was an other, and Lapidus didn't jump because, ummmmmm, he wasn't on the island as long as other people. I dunno. The theory has a lot of holes in it and would mean that other lady he went with wasn't sun (could be faraday's mom?)

 

Yes, this is why I don't think it's Sun who took off with Frank. But also we know Frank, and would he take off to the main island with a woman he doesn't know? I'm racking my brain to think of who else that woman could be. What about Daniel's Theresa? What about the woman who was with Daniel when the TV was showing the 815 wreckage? Ms. Hawking? Maybe.

 

That's why I love this show, it still manages to surprise me.

[TCP]

Somehow I managed to watch this episode from an Ottawa station at 4PM PST. So like, don't read below if you haven't seen the episode yet!

 

 

 

 

Definitely an entertaining hour. This season has so much pace to it, I love it.

So if Jack, Sawyer, and gang are in 1977, are the airplane people also in the groovy 70s? Or 2008?? Does a body have enough time to decompose to a skeleton from 1977 to 2004? I'm thinking of the skeletons found in season 1. So does this explain why The Others recruited Juliet??

I guess Jin's english must be spot on by now.

[Analogman]

Great episode. Of course, Sawyer's peace won't last.

[Mystik Spiral]

Sawyer and Juliet stay together:

 

I have to admit that I'm so confused by all the time travel...

 

Have the survivors on the island been existing in two planes? They're in 1974 now on the island, is there a 1974 version of each of them running around off the island? If Sawyer and Juliet do stay together forever will he ever have a daughter with Cassidy? And so on and so forth...

 

As for the S1 skeletons, I thought Jack said they were likely 50-60 years dead. So 1970's skeletons would've been too new.

 

My brain hurts.

 

It's nice to see Horace again, though, that crazy liver-eating SOB.

[jmacomber68w]

Not liking this, I'll keep watching, but I hope the rest of Lost

isn't just the "lostees" trapped in the 70s going through love story drama

all that is fine if we were in season 1 or 2, but I want a bit more I guess, always next week

[Moe_Syzlak]

Am I the only one who felt this was the worst episode of the whole series!?! What did we learn? What was moved forward? I don't need questions and mysteries answered every episode, but it seemed to me the big plot movements of this episode were explaining they had been on the island for three years and that Sawyer and Juliet were an item. The Sawyer/Juliet thing was completely predictable and the three years could've been explained in a five minute scene as the jeep and VW Bus meet. Wasted episode if you ask me.

[TCP]

Worst episode of the series? Go back and watch the one about how Jack got his tattoos. Or, of course, the Nikki and Paulo one.

In fact, look at this one compared to when they spent the first half of season 3, being imprisoned by the DI and nothing happened for weeks at a time. Oh... Kate has to put on a dress and have dinner with Ben... end episode one. Oh... Jack noticed something weird on an xray, I wonder if he'll have to perform surgery... end episode two. Oh Sawyer can get fish cookies... too bad he is being forced into slavery... end episode three. Oh Jack is performing surgery, I wonder what will go wrong... end episode 4. Booo-urns. This whole thing with them living with Dhama could have been dragged out A LOT longer, I'm glad it wasn't.

[Mystik Spiral]

^^

 

I liked this episode. I don't know what exactly all the haters were expecting. We needed to know how the Losties on the island got involved with the DI. I think it's a big deal to know that they've been living island 70's for three years before the O5 come back. And as always with LOST, there's going to be more to the story. Chill out.

 

Also some of this has to do with Charlotte. I thought maybe Amy and Horace were her parents, but then they go and have a boy. Then we see the redheaded little girl... I still want to know who her parents are.

[Analogman]

Episode 5x08 LaFleur - Easter Eggs, Screencaps, and Analysis

Direct link.

 

All the way back in the seventies

You were my little TV queen

Your Tarzan and friend Janine

I got you

 

I got you and I still believe

That you are all I will ever need

It's you, oh

 

I noticed Richard said that the force field could not stop him or his people.

 

Rosie is wearing a Geronimo Jackson shirt. A fan-based joke revolving around Richard Alpert and "guyliner" is referenced in this episode by Sawyer who explains to Horace he was referring to his "buddy out there with the eyeliner". The joke has been debunked in interviews with the actor playing Richard, who has very dark eyelashes.

 

Some questions from Lostpedia:

 

What is the significance of the giant statue?

Why are women unable to carry a child to term later in the Island's history?

What is the nature of the truce between the DHARMA Initiative and the Hostiles?

Where are Rose, Bernard, and the other survivors?

What is the significance of Paul's ankh necklace?

Why did Jack, Kate, and Hurley return to 1977?

Why wasn't Richard concerned about the sonic fence?

Why do the Hostiles want Paul's corpse?

What happened to convince Horace to let Sawyer, Juliet, Miles, Daniel, and Jin stay on the island?

What happened to Horace's wife Olivia?

Is Charlotte more than five years older than she was claimed to be? (She was supposed to have been born in 1979, but Daniel sees her on the island as a child in 1974.) Or is the girl Daniel sees not Charlotte?

[Somnambulist]

Another question my wife brought up was is the baby boy significant? If he was born in 1974 that would make him early 30's when the plane wrecks in 2005.

[TCP]

Another question my wife brought up was is the baby boy significant? If he was born in 1974 that would make him early 30's when the plane wrecks in 2005.

Good point, I bet it is someone.... but who?!

[Guest Gym Teacher Man]

The baby boy was the part that had me. I can't really imagine who it'll be. Faraday? Not sure if that makes sense. I haven't really thought it out in-depth yet. But that was my original thought. Considering the pace of this season, I honestly was expecting to find out his name right then.

 

I sort of see what you mean Moe, but I can't say it was the worst episode yet. I agree with the other guy's thoughts on season 3. I nearly stopped watching altogether that season. Anyway, this episode seemed a bit long in the tooth, but i'm sure we'll find out some good shit next week that will redeem the show.

[KevinG]

Another question my wife brought up was is the baby boy significant? If he was born in 1974 that would make him early 30's when the plane wrecks in 2005.

 

the kid was actually born in 1977. When the "last flash" occurred, Sawyer et al. ended up in 1974, when this kid was born it was 3 years later. So that would make the kid in his mid 20's when Oceanic 815 crashed.

[Moe_Syzlak]

Worst episode of the series? Go back and watch the one about how Jack got his tattoos. Or, of course, the Nikki and Paulo one.

In fact, look at this one compared to when they spent the first half of season 3, being imprisoned by the DI and nothing happened for weeks at a time. Oh... Kate has to put on a dress and have dinner with Ben... end episode one. Oh... Jack noticed something weird on an xray, I wonder if he'll have to perform surgery... end episode two. Oh Sawyer can get fish cookies... too bad he is being forced into slavery... end episode three. Oh Jack is performing surgery, I wonder what will go wrong... end episode 4. Booo-urns. This whole thing with them living with Dhama could have been dragged out A LOT longer, I'm glad it wasn't.

All of those episodes at least had flashbacks that provided character development (and I am one who found the flashbacks many times more interesting that he island's mysteroes). Last night's episode had NOTHING. We knew they were in the 70's or thereabouts from seeing Jin in the VW Bus. HOW they got to be part of the DI could've been handled in one quick monologue. Sawyer and Juliet? Okay who didn't see that one coming. Look everyone is allowed a clunker now and then, but I think that one was a clunker.

[NightOfJoy]

the kid was actually born in 1977. When the "last flash" occurred, Sawyer et al. ended up in 1974, when this kid was born it was 3 years later. So that would make the kid in his mid 20's when Oceanic 815 crashed.

 

What was Alix's boyfriends name....the kid who was being tortured and "reeducated" a few seasons ago....he eventually got shot and killed......he'd be about the right age, eh?

[Somnambulist]

the kid was actually born in 1977. When the "last flash" occurred, Sawyer et al. ended up in 1974, when this kid was born it was 3 years later. So that would make the kid in his mid 20's when Oceanic 815 crashed.

 

You're right. It was '77. That would really cut down on who, if anyone, it could be. Charlie? Ben's/Rousseau's daughter's boyfriend? Boone? I think Jack, Sawyer, Faraday, Desmond all would be too old.

[Guest Gym Teacher Man]

What was Alix's boyfriends name....the kid who was being tortured and "reeducated" a few seasons ago....he eventually got shot and killed......he'd be about the right age, eh?

 

Karl. But I think he was supposed to be a teenager, around Alex's age.

[KevinG]

Karl. But I think he was supposed to be a teenager, around Alex's age.

 

too right. If it is someone we know (which I doubt) I don't think it can be anyone from Ben's "camp" because he killed all Dharma folks in the purge, including Horace.

 

Here is an interesting theory for ya, the kid is Jacob.

[TCP]

Maybe it's.... BOONE!

 

I think Analogman had it right, this episode was more about Sawyer finding peace in his life. And as soon as he got it, Kate came back.

[KevinG]

I just rewatched the episode. Although good not great.

 

The one scene that bothered me was the scene between Horace and Sawyer when Horace was waking up from his binge. Sawyer was sitting there reading a book and the book had no cover. In Lost everytime a book has been shown we get the title, so fans can obsess over the book and its meaning to the episode and Lost as a whole. This time no cover what so ever. The writters dropped the ball on that one.

[Moe_Syzlak]

One thing I really liked from the episode was seeing the statue, which I speculate is Thoth the Atlantean.

 

 

 

Thoth has played a prominent role in many of the Egyptian myths. Displaying his role as arbitrator, he had overseen the three epic battles between good and evil. All three battles are fundamentally the same and belong to different periods. The first battle took place between Ra and Apep, the second between Heru-Bekhutet and Set, and the third between Horus, the son of Osiris, and Set. In each instance, the former god represented order while the latter represented chaos. If one god was seriously injured, Thoth would heal them to prevent either from overtaking the other.

Thoth was also prominent in the Osiris myth, being of great aid to Isis. After Isis gathered together the pieces of Osiris' dismembered body, he gave her the words to resurrect him so she could be impregnated and bring forth Horus. When Horus was slain, Thoth gave the formulae to resurrect him as well. Similar to God speaking the words to create the heavens and Earth in Judeo-Christian mythology, Thoth, being the god who always speaks the words that fulfill the wishes of Ra, spoke the words that created the heavens and Earth in Egyptian mythology.

This mythology also credits him with the creation of the 365 day calendar. Originally, according to the myth, the year was only 360 days long and Nut was sterile during these days, unable to bear children. Thoth gambled with Khonsu, the moon, for 1/72nd of its light (360/72 = 5), or 5 days, and won. During these 5 days, Nut gave birth to Kheru-ur (Horus the Elder, Face of Heaven), Osiris, Set, Isis, and Nepthys.

In the Ogdoad cosmogony myth, Thoth gave birth to Ra, Atum, Nefertum, and Khepri by laying an egg while in the form of an ibis, or later as a goose laying a golden egg.

 

Horus? Horace?

 

There is an ancient text, survived till our days, written by one of the inhabitants of Atlantis — Thoth the Atlantean. It is titled The Emerald Tablets [66].

Below is presented a selection of main excerpts from this remarkable spiritual work.

In the Emerald Tablets, Thoth the Atlantean gives information about the geography of the Atlantis islands, including their names, and about the state structure. Yet, its most valuable part is a description of the spiritual Path presented in a disguised (for incompetent readers) form.

About the destruction of Atlantis, Thoth says known things: confidential knowledge was imparted to unworthy people and the latter began using it for evil purposes. Also they adopted bloody sacrifices — and this resulted in numerous incarnations of hellish beings among people. That is why God decided to destroy this decayed oasis of spiritual culture.

The islands of Atlantis submerged into the ocean in two stages. Before the second stage, Thoth the Atlantean — one of the Highest Spiritual Adepts of Atlantis, who knew Mergence with the Primordial (the Dweller) — was ordered by the Primordial to gather a group of Atlanteans similar to Him and move to Egypt, called Khem at that time.

The Primordial advised Thoth thus: “Go forth as a Teacher of men! Go forth reserving the records (with Teachings) until in time the Light grows among men! Light shall You be all through the ages, hidden yet found by enlightened men. Over all Earth, give We You power, free You to give or take it away.”

Working with the people of Khem as an Emissary of the Primordial on the Earth, Thoth the Atlantean manifested Himself to them also in the form of a Pyramid.

He explained that the Path to Mergence with the Primordial, which Thoth Himself had traversed, anyone can strive to traverse. Yet, there are obstacles on this Path; they create difficulties for travelers: these difficulties prevent the weak, fool, and ethically unworthy from going further. Go! But do not take with you the unwise, insincere, weak!

Thoth the Atlantean gives basic recommendations for initial harmonization of the chakra system. For fulfilling just this recommendation He promises health and longevity.

Then one has to seek the methods of mastering diving as a soul into “star worlds” and other spatial dimensions, which are “vacant to all seeming, yet hidden within them are the keys…” Then the worthy seeker cognizes the Light of the Great Fire — this is one of the Forms in which a seeker perceives the Primordial, having approached Him.

Later Thoth the Atlantean was incarnated — again in Egypt — as Hermes Thrice-born*. “I began preaching to (these) people the beauty of religion and Knowledge,” wrote He. This treatise of His ends with passionate appeal to neighbors: “O people, men born on the Earth, who indulge in drunkenness and sleep, ignorant of God! Sober up, cease your surfeit, awake from your dullness!… Why… do you give up yourself to death while you have power to partake immortality?!”

[OOO]

Shouldn't there be a mini-Ben Linus walking around the Dharma Initiative? I would think over the course of 3 years the 815 people would have picked up on a kid named Ben Linus, and Juliette might have clued people into the fact that he is going to gas them all in the future.

[stickman]

Lostpedia says he was born in the early 1960s and let's say he was about 12 when he came to the island, so that would put him arriving there at roughly 1974-1976. Definitely within that period. Good point.