Should Wilco bring back Jay Bennett?

[Ghost of Electricity]

hi Derek, you old rabblerouser.

[Derek Phillips]

hi Derek, you old rabblerouser.

 

Hi. Haven't been by in a long time. Didn't (necessarily) mean to rouse any rabbles, but it's a fun discussion.

[Central Scrutinizer]

Jeff fired Jay.

 

Jeff was tired of the drama associated with Jay.

 

Jeff is HAPPY with the band now.

 

Wilco is Jeff's band.

 

Just what is so difficult to understand about the above statements?

Agreed. I don't understand how people try to take who this band is now, who they are as people, as artists, where they are at this time in their life and want to superimpose some personal concept of what they *really* are and where they should *really* be.

 

It's like saying Bob Dylan is worthless because he voice doesn't sound like Tony Bennett.

 

If Bennett was all that, why has he not been able to do much on his own post-Wilco? Could at be that Bennett was nothing without the people around him, or that they filtered a lot of the heifer dust about him out, got him at least focused so that he could make valid contributions within that framework? If you like Wilco then, liked the way he sounded then with Wilco, then listen to who Wilco was then. Enjoy it. Then respect who the band is now, where they are in their lives, and appreciate it or don't.

[skip]

I think that Tweedy's and Bennett's background (pre-Wilco) might shead a little light on things.

 

From what I have read, Uncle Tupleo albums (perhaps AM too) were recorded with little to no overdubs. When Bennett joined the band just after AM had been recorded, he brought a slew of that studio wizardy and piano/keys to Wilco. Seeing an opportunity, Tweedy I'm guessing utilized those new attributes to push the band into new directions and develop new sounds. That vision and skill in my mind made Being There, almost pushed Summerteeth too far, and the YHF demos IMO sounded like Summerteeth II (very dense before Jim O'Rourke stripped some of the extras away). After Bennett left the band, I think Tweedy made a conscience effort to make AGIB and SBS in more striped down, live environment.

 

I loved the Bennett and Burch record but honestly stopped listening to Bennett after Bigger than Blue. Listen to Bennett's version Reasons for You to Love Me (Cars Can't Escape) and you'll understand why. In short, Bennett needs an editor - loves the studio too much. He can play anything and will add a zillion instruments to a single song.

 

In a lot of ways, I think Tweedy and Bennett tempered each other. Perhaps a return to using the studio as an instrument will quiet all the "bring Bennett back" comments.

[The High Heat]

The article states Wilco is a more serious band now, yet the concert audiences are getting younger.

They're also getting chattier. Are they chattier because they're younger or is it because Wilco is more serious?

[Guest Speed Racer]

The article states Wilco is a more serious band now, yet the concert audiences are getting younger.

They're also getting chattier. Are they chattier because they're younger or is it because Wilco is more serious?

 

Wilco can be a more serious band and still have asshat people attend shows, much in the same way that anyone is free to listen to Stravinsky. What makes you think it's related?

[caliber66]

Agreed. I don't understand how people try to take who this band is now, who they are as people, as artists, where they are at this time in their life and want to superimpose some personal concept of what they *really* are and where they should *really* be.

 

It's like saying Bob Dylan is worthless because he voice doesn't sound like Tony Bennett.

 

Actually, your analogy would work if Bob Dylan had put out some records where his voice sounded like Tony Bennett's, then changed his sound.

 

If Bennett was all that, why has he not been able to do much on his own post-Wilco? Could at be that Bennett was nothing without the people around him, or that they filtered a lot of the heifer dust about him out, got him at least focused so that he could make valid contributions within that framework? If you like Wilco then, liked the way he sounded then with Wilco, then listen to who Wilco was then. Enjoy it. Then respect who the band is now, where they are in their lives, and appreciate it or don't.

That's a pretty specious argument as well. I'll bet Jay Bennett has sold more albums as a solo artist than Jeff Tweedy. Who's the artist now?

[bldad]

This just in ..... Jay Bennett has not been a member of Wilco for almost 8 years.

 

Can't wait for this dead horse to stop being beaten.

[The High Heat]

Wilco can be a more serious band and still have asshat people attend shows, much in the same way that anyone is free to listen to Stravinsky. What makes you think it's related?

It was just a question. You know ~ for pondering.

Personally, I think SBS brought in fans to the band that weren't aware of them before. Now there's a certain coolness to being at a Wilco concert, and many of these new fans are there to be cool, be seen and fit-in. Hence, the chatting increase. I like SBS, but there is a certain common-denominator feel to it, which brings in more people.

As far as the seriousness of the band: I don't want 40-year-old men acting like spastic-twenty-somethings when they are no longer those people.

Growing and growing-up is good. Some people do and some people are asked to leave the band.

[LouieB]

I don't want 40-year-old men acting like spastic-twenty-somethings when they are no longer those people.

Growing and growing-up is good. Some people do and some people are asked to leave the band.

Mick Jagger has made a pretty good living doing that.

 

LouieB

[grateful dead]

If Bennett was all that, why has he not been able to do much on his own post-Wilco? Could at be that Bennett was nothing without the people around him, or that they filtered a lot of the heifer dust about him out, got him at least focused so that he could make valid contributions within that framework? If you like Wilco then, liked the way he sounded then with Wilco, then listen to who Wilco was then. Enjoy it. Then respect who the band is now, where they are in their lives, and appreciate it or don't.

 

Bennett just doesnt have the vocals that tweedy has. Bennett has co-written some of their best stuff. But he wasnt fit to be a lead singer. Hes "All That" just in other aspects of music. Not everyone is frontman.

[mpolak21]

Agreed. I don't understand how people try to take who this band is now, who they are as people, as artists, where they are at this time in their life and want to superimpose some personal concept of what they *really* are and where they should *really* be.

 

It's like saying Bob Dylan is worthless because he voice doesn't sound like Tony Bennett.

 

If Bennett was all that, why has he not been able to do much on his own post-Wilco? Could at be that Bennett was nothing without the people around him, or that they filtered a lot of the heifer dust about him out, got him at least focused so that he could make valid contributions within that framework? If you like Wilco then, liked the way he sounded then with Wilco, then listen to who Wilco was then. Enjoy it. Then respect who the band is now, where they are in their lives, and appreciate it or don't.

 

I actually have no problem understanding people wanting to impose personal concepts on the band at all, isn't that part of being a fan? No one has said post-Bennett Wilco is worthless, just that there are people prefer the band as it was with Jay to the current incarnation and therefore would embrace Bennett's return if it were a possibility. Anyone particularly distressed by the possibility of Jay returning to Wilco can rest easily, because there's a .001 percent chance of it ever happening.

 

--Mike

[kamera]

Anyone particularly distressed by the possibility of Jay returning to Wilco can rest easily, because there's a .001 percent chance of it ever happening.

 

--Mike

 

So you're tellin' me there's a chance?...

[So Long]

I miss him.

[froggie]

Mick Jagger has made a pretty good living doing that.

 

LouieB

 

 

[mountain bed]

Mick Jagger has made a pretty good living doing that.

 

LouieB

Yeah, and it's pretty effin' ridiculous too, if you ask me. A 65 year old dude, wearing spandex (or at least too-tight pants), prancing about onstage, yapping about "I can't get no satisfaction" when he's been a millionaire since he turned 21, screwed super models etc etc.

 

Mick, we feel your pain.

[dondoboy]

Yeah, and it's pretty effin' ridiculous too, if you ask me. A 65 year old dude, wearing spandex (or at least too-tight pants), prancing about onstage, yapping about "I can't get no satisfaction" when he's been a millionaire since he turned 21, screwed super models etc etc.

 

Mick, we feel your pain.

I tell ya, when I'm 65 I hope I can move like Mick.

[The High Heat]

Mick Jagger has made a pretty good living doing that.

 

LouieB

Jagger has a showman's personality and has been a sex symbol (maybe not now), which he has widely exploited to his own advantage. Except for a small percentage of overly obsessive fans, Tweedy is no sex symbol. He is a great front man, but I don't know about showman. He has his moments.

If Wilco starts behaving like the Stones, I shudder to imagine one of the boys ending up looking like Keith Richards. (Pat?)

[Central Scrutinizer]

Actually, your analogy would work if Bob Dylan had put out some records where his voice sounded like Tony Bennett's, then changed his sound.

 

Well it was off the cuff, how about people hammering for Dylan to remake Nashville Skyline. Any attempt to remake the chemistry, the level of experience and nuance someone brings to a time and attempts to recreate that fail on the face of the attempt.

 

This is not too unlike the bar feuds trying to compare great sports teams from different eras as to how they would match up if they played one another. By the very nature of how the game was played, what at that time was innovative, the structure and organization, economics, societal issues all boil into how something is composed. Lightning in a bottle.

 

That's a pretty specious argument as well. I'll bet Jay Bennett has sold more albums as a solo artist than Jeff Tweedy. Who's the artist now?

Dunno, would you count Tweedy's PNW DVD? His soundtrack? If Tweedy judiciously protected his live recordings and sold them, this wouldn't come down to splitting hairs. If you included recordings that were distributed (Owl & Bear etc.) the answer would still be: Tweedy.

 

I don't want 40-year-old men acting like spastic-twenty-somethings when they are no longer those people.

[Central Scrutinizer]

Bennett just doesnt have the vocals that tweedy has. Bennett has co-written some of their best stuff. But he wasnt fit to be a lead singer. Hes "All That" just in other aspects of music. Not everyone is frontman.

Tweedy isn't exactly a blessed singer. In some respects I think it's like the story they claimed about Harry Carey singing "Take Me Out to the Ball Game," his voice gives people the confidence that they can sing at least that good.

 

Moreso, Tweedy built his stage presence, found his "voice" as a frontman. If you're a solo artist, you have to either find your niche in other ways. he has skills but he hasn't been able to harness them to become a comparable level of notoriety.

[Jake]

Now there's a certain coolness to being at a Wilco concert, and many of these new fans are there to be cool, be seen and fit-in. Hence, the chatting increase.

Chatting increase? Really? Listen to any of the solo Lounge Ax boots from 96-98 and you'll hear Tweedy repeatedly chiding the crowd for talking.

[mpolak21]

Here's a bar argument for you: would Wilco have been better off immediately replacing Bennett in August of 2001 with Jim O'Rourke. O'Rourke could have easily fit Bennett's co-writer role as he and Tweedy work very well together in Loose Fur. O'Rourke has an equally kickass fashion sense-- check out the pants in this video

. I could easily do my own list of 21 for this...

 

I do really really like the Bennett/Tweedy days of Wilco, but since Jay has left the dropoff hasn't really been that stunningly significant yet. Have they ever topped Foxtrot? Probably not, but it's not like A Ghost is Born is Back to Egg or something, and even though Sky Blue Sky isn't really my favorite, it's by no means a bad record. I would be excited for a Tweedy/Bennett reunion if they make amends, but for now let's not lose sight of the fact that they are pretty damn good as they are right now, and regardless of what they do in the studio there probably the best live band in the world. It did take Jay a few years to really come into his own in the band, I could easily see Nels growing into a great songwriting partner for Jeff as well, case in point You Are My Face. And if not we know Tweedy still has O'Rourke on speed dial.

 

--Mike.

[SeattleC]

Reasons why Wilco shouldn't bring back Jay Bennett:

 

1. He's not Nels Cline

 

BUT, very interesting article anway.. The writer makes some good points.

 

Especially:

 

11. Forget the Flowers - This style of playing is my favorite and Jay Bennett does it better than anyone. It's a crying shame that this song is not a staple in the live set but maybe that's because it cannot be played by anyone else. In the name of the fans we demand that at a minimum Jay appear once per show to play "Forget the Flowers"

 

 

I can agree with this. The last time I heard Nels try to pull off that style, it was kind of weak. Yes, he's still Nels and he made it work, but it wasn't even in the same ball park as Jay.

 

 

I always thought that was Jerry Garcia playing

[Mrs. Peel]

Jagger has a showman's personality and has been a sex symbol (maybe not now), which he has widely exploited to his own advantage. Except for a small percentage of overly obsessive fans, Tweedy is no sex symbol. He is a great front man, but I don't know about showman. He has his moments.

 

I beg to differ. He dances a mean jig during "Hummingbird".

[The High Heat]

I beg to differ. He dances a mean jig during "Hummingbird".

Perhaps you overlooked the last sentence of what you quoted:

He has his moments.