What's the consensus on Wilco (The Album)?

[Guest Jules]

"I'll Fight" is another tune that suffers from lack of melody. Just a one-note sledgehammer. Pretty painful. And this from the group that did "How to Fight Loneliness," which is in the same key and has a lot of musical similarity. Except "How to Fight Loneliness" has a much more discernible melody and the song actually takes you somewhere, instead of singing "I'll fight, I'll fight, I'll fight" over and over again.

I'll Fight might be a top 5 Wilco all-time tune.

[Guest Speed Racer]

What's poetic about that line? I think the whole "we're close yet so far away" thing is overplayed and cheesy. I think the whole song is cheesy.

 

Most Wilco song topics are over-played and cheesy (being in/out of love, couples happy/fighting/happily fighting; missing someone; drugs; isolation; togetherness; nostalgia; hope?), they just happen to reinvent them pretty well. If you don't like the song, that's too bad. I happen to enjoy it myself; I don't think there are too many middle-of-the-relationship songs that aren't about specific conflict or celebration. "You & I" is a "here we are" sort of song about a couple that's been around for a while and will be a while longer - that's how I hear it at least, and I like it.

[SeattleC]

Life is rather cheesy. Cheesiness makes the world go round.

 

 

If you had a choice, would you rather live in a world without W(TA)? I like it, because it's more Wilco in the universe. The alternative is worse.

[learnhowtosteer]

I'll Fight might be a top 5 Wilco all-time tune.

 

Really? What is it about the tune that appeals to you? I find it really repetitive and also derivative of previous Tweedy melody lines, like "On and On and On."

[GLHawk]

Really? What is it about the tune that appeals to you? I find it really repetitive and also derivative of previous Tweedy melody lines, like "On and On and On."

 

Not one of my faves on the album -- that one and You Never Know are my least favorite, because of the aforementioned repetitiveness.

 

But I'll Fight still has a lot going for it -- I love the soaring guitar and vocal parts in the bridge, which lend the song a lot more color than On and On (which I also like). Also, this song is a real sleeper lyrically -- I'm still trying to sort out what it's really about, but it's definitely a lot more complex than I thought on first listen. (Same is true of Sunny Feeling, which I also initially dismissed.)

 

Also, it's not really an artistic crime to have similar-sounding songs -- many of the greatest musicians of all time have made whole careers on varying the same themes over and over again. Wilco paints with a much broader pallette than most -- I love song juxtapositions like Ashes of American Flags/Heavy Metal Drummer and Bull Black Nova/You and I.

[bobbob1313]

Oh yeah, "Sonny Feeling" is so good.

 

The guitar bit after "Oh maybe it's random how each moment unfolds" is probably Nels' single greatest non-"Impossible Germany" contribution to the band. Maybe it comes in third after the absolutely ridiculous solo he rips off at the end of "California Stars" from one of the residency shows.

[Al.Ducts]

Oh yeah, "Sonny Feeling" is so good.

 

The guitar bit after "Oh maybe it's random how each moment unfolds" is probably Nels' single greatest non-"Impossible Germany" contribution to the band. Maybe it comes in third after the absolutely ridiculous solo he rips off at the end of "California Stars" from one of the residency shows.

 

 

Favorites: Deeper Down, One Wing, Bull Black Nova, Sonny Feeling, Dark Neon

Like A Lot: Solitaire, I'll Fight, Country Disappeared, Everlasting Everything

So-So (Its Wilco!): You Never Know, You & I, Wilco (the song)

 

 

I like Sonny Feeling a lot. I didn't so much upon first listen but after a few more spins I realized it. While I do like the album a lot I think this is one of the few tracks that has some distinctive, varying sections of instrumentals. The harmonies are beautiful. Big drums, solid key/organ play, and excellent subtle guitar work in the background leading into a raucous ending (I love Jeff's "alright" fading into the overdrive solo).

[Bart]

wait two years, then ask this question.

 

Bingo.

 

Like all their albums, these songs need to be played live a few hundred times to realize their full potential.

[jakobnicholas]

"I'll Fight" is another tune that suffers from lack of melody. Just a one-note sledgehammer. Pretty painful. And this from the group that did "How to Fight Loneliness," which is in the same key and has a lot of musical similarity. Except "How to Fight Loneliness" has a much more discernible melody and the song actually takes you somewhere, instead of singing "I'll fight, I'll fight, I'll fight" over and over again.

 

 

I agree with all that.

 

Bull Black Nova and Solitaire, to me, are the only songs where it SOUNDS like Wilco really attempted something special. Too much of the rest are mostly pleasant songs, but have a safe-ness about them that I can't really explain. One Wing is a very good song, but comes up a little short. Wilco (The Song) is a very good rocker with very solid lyrics, but it's hard not think they weren't doing a 2009 version of a Summerteeth rocker.

 

 

I found an old review of R.E.M.'s "Reveal" that was written by a critic named Scott Wilson. He defended "Reveal" in his review...not saying it was great, but that it was a respectable R.E.M. album. He finished his review with this:

 

"You can't accuse them of greed or contractual obligation; the simple fact is that people need to keep working. And should. That work won't always be indisputably great, though it could be again. But the listener's part of the contract isn't to wowed every time but to be fascinated. And R.E.M.'s work, pretty or pretty good, remains uniquely fascinating."

 

 

I like the phrase "remains uniquely fascinating". I think that should be the #1 requirement asked by fans of their favorite band. It's not asking too much, I don't think.

 

 

And Wilco, for me, was "uniquely fascinating" all the way up to A Ghost is Born. And I'd even say the same about Sky Blue Sky. But Wilco (The Album) might be the first I can't say that about.

[GLHawk]

I agree with all that.

 

Bull Black Nova and Solitaire, to me, are the only songs where it SOUNDS like Wilco really attempted something special. Too much of the rest are mostly pleasant songs, but have a safe-ness about them that I can't really explain. One Wing is a very good song, but comes up a little short. Wilco (The Song) is a very good rocker with very solid lyrics, but it's hard not think they weren't doing a 2009 version of a Summerteeth rocker.

 

 

I found an old review of R.E.M.'s "Reveal" that was written by a critic named Scott Wilson. He defended "Reveal" in his review...not saying it was great, but that it was a respectable R.E.M. album. He finished his review with this:

 

"You can't accuse them of greed or contractual obligation; the simple fact is that people need to keep working. And should. That work won't always be indisputably great, though it could be again. But the listener's part of the contract isn't to wowed every time but to be fascinated. And R.E.M.'s work, pretty or pretty good, remains uniquely fascinating."

 

 

I like the phrase "remains uniquely fascinating". I think that should be the #1 requirement asked by fans of their favorite band. It's not asking too much, I don't think.

 

 

And Wilco, for me, was "uniquely fascinating" all the way up to A Ghost is Born. And I'd even say the same about Sky Blue Sky. But Wilco (The Album) might be the first I can't say that about.

 

I bow to no one in my unabashed R.E.M. fandom, but I can say confidently that W(TA) is a better album than Reveal.

 

Again we see Wilco being criticized for merely recording an album full of "good" songs. I submit that this an achievement, not a demerit.

[rwilson580]

"I'll Fight" is another tune that suffers from lack of melody. Just a one-note sledgehammer. Pretty painful. And this from the group that did "How to Fight Loneliness," which is in the same key and has a lot of musical similarity. Except "How to Fight Loneliness" has a much more discernible melody and the song actually takes you somewhere, instead of singing "I'll fight, I'll fight, I'll fight" over and over again.

 

I think this is actually a very interesting song lyrically. The way the 60's girl band repetition transforms into something else entirely in subsequent verses. He manages to compress a phrase as complex as "You’ll wake with a start from a dream and know that I am gone" into the same melody that the "I'll gos" and "I'll fights" mapped to earlier in the song. It's a decent trick, not one I've seen lots of precedents for. This is far from a simple song.

[learnhowtosteer]

I think this is actually a very interesting song lyrically. The way the 60's girl band repetition transforms into something else entirely in subsequent verses. He manages to compress a phrase as complex as "You’ll wake with a start from a dream and know that I am gone" into the same melody that the "I'll gos" and "I'll fights" mapped to earlier in the song. It's a decent trick, not one I've seen lots of precedents for. This is far from a simple song.

 

I see your points, but what you are saying also underscores my point--he changes up the lyrics and keeps the SAME MELODY.

 

Whereas a younger, less lazy Wilco would have varied up the melody a little bit and made the song truly special. They were so brilliant at one point in their introduction of little melodic and sonic variances halfway through their songs. Whereas the W(TA)songs just plod along with little variation. All that happens to spice things up are random little licks from Nels Cline. And that is not a good use for a musician of Nels' brilliance.

 

Same goes for Kotche, by the way. The drums could have been way more interesting on W(TA).

[jakobnicholas]

I bow to no one in my unabashed R.E.M. fandom, but I can say confidently that W(TA) is a better album than Reveal.

 

Again we see Wilco being criticized for merely recording an album full of "good" songs. I submit that this an achievement, not a demerit.

 

 

I would agree with you if I thought that they did, in fact, release an album FULL of good songs.

 

Sky Blue Sky, though maybe not a great album, sounded fresh. I didn't care much for Shake it Off or Walken, but they did have fascinating bits. And the more direct, simple songs seemed unique to Wilco because of their uplifitng lyrics.

 

I find much of W(TA) to be just be mediocre. You Never Know, Sonny Feeling and I'll Fight are very mediocre and unremarkable "rockers" when compared to past Wilco rockers. The uplifting and 'pretty' songs (You and I, Everlasting Everything) are OK, but sound a step-down from the ones on Sky Blue Sky (Either Way, On and On On).

 

That's not to say it's a bad album. It's just an un-interesting album with a handful of great songs.

[Guest Speed Racer]

I see your points, but what you are saying also underscores my point--he changes up the lyrics and keeps the SAME MELODY.

 

Whereas a younger, less lazy Wilco would have varied up the melody a little bit and made the song truly special. They were so brilliant at one point in their introduction of little melodic and sonic variances halfway through their songs. Whereas the W(TA)songs just plod along with little variation. All that happens to spice things up are random little licks from Nels Cline. And that is not a good use for a musician of Nels' brilliance.

 

Same goes for Kotche, by the way. The drums could have been way more interesting on W(TA).

 

If Wilco continued the same song structure of introducing variances halfway through their songs, that wouldn't be brillaint or less lazy, it would be formulaic and more lazy.

 

The instrumentation does change up a bit, but to me the melody doesn't need to. I think of the song as adhering to the model of Bob Dylan's early, lyrical songs - the melody doesn't need to change, because you're not listening for the melody, you're listening for the lyrics. The true variations come in the lyrics, which I think makes the song more nuanced.

 

I'm fine with Glenn's drumming on W(TA), and I find that to be quite nuanced and subtle as well. Tracks like Deeper Down, One Wing and Dark Neon have incredibly complex percussion, but it's nothing that stands out - it adds to the song, certainly, but doesn't overpower it, which is how it should be. Glenn got a lot of similar flak around here when SBS came out, and now I can't listen to that album without loving his rich drumming.

[Ghost of Electricity]

 

 

 

I'm fine with Glenn's drumming on W(TA), and I find that to be quite nuanced and subtle as well. Tracks like Deeper Down, One Wing and Dark Neon have incredibly complex percussion, but it's nothing that stands out - it adds to the song, certainly, but doesn't overpower it, which is how it should be. Glenn got a lot of similar flak around here when SBS came out, and now I can't listen to that album without loving his rich drumming.

 

yeah, but some still need to be floored by something like the beat that comes in at about the one minute mark of IATTBYH. But I think that is a once-in-a-lifetimer.

[learnhowtosteer]

yeah, but some still need to be floored by something like the beat that comes in at about the one minute mark of IATTBYH. But I think that is a once-in-a-lifetimer.

 

It's not just about being floored by something like that incredible opening in IATTBYH (though that is undeniably awesome). It's not about "complex percussion" either. If I want complex percussion, I'll listen to Neil Peart.

 

It's about sonic inventiveness. All the wacky sounds, the chimes, the beating on garbage cans, throwing instruments down a flight of stairs. That's what makes Kotche special, I think. And when that's not there, I think Jeff's songs suffer.

 

On the issue of lyrics vs. melody, I have to say, the wonderful thing about Wilco to me has always been the marriage between sonics and the lyrical imagery. Even Sky Blue Sky, which is more traditional, has gorgeous, rich, full sounds, which mesh perfectly with Jeff's words.

 

On W(TA), the sonics really aren't that great to my ears. They sound compressed and lifeless. The contributions of the instrumentalists don't enhance the track--they just sound like they are layered on top of the basics.

 

So, the result is that you don't have that great sonic/lyric meld that has existed on every album--until W(TA).

[Guest Speed Racer]

It's about sonic inventiveness. All the wacky sounds, the chimes, the beating on garbage cans, throwing instruments down a flight of stairs. That's what makes Kotche special, I think. And when that's not there, I think Jeff's songs suffer.

 

Jeff and Jay had a lot more to do with those so-called "wacky" sounds than you're giving them credit for - eggbeaters on guitar strings on "Poor Places," for instance. IATTBYH also lent insight to the recording process for YHF that we don't have for W(TA). How do you know Glenn's hubcaps didn't appear on W(TA)? I wouldn't have known what some of the stuff was on YHF unless I had heard it explained in interviews or seen it in the doc. Deeper Down uses some pretty interesting stuff (machinery recordings included or excluded, either way).

 

And again, I think the sonic-inventiveness becomes rather un-inventive when it is the first tool pulled from the box every time. YHF songs, to me, were about distance and emotional unrest that I think the percussion and sonic tricks contributed to. If every album after YHF sounded like YHF, many folks might have dismissed Wilco as a one-trick pony. W(TA) is more about direct connections, and I think the more straightforward presentations of the songs reflect that.

[rwilson580]

I see your points, but what you are saying also underscores my point--he changes up the lyrics and keeps the SAME MELODY.

 

Whereas a younger, less lazy Wilco would have varied up the melody a little bit and made the song truly special. They were so brilliant at one point in their introduction of little melodic and sonic variances halfway through their songs. Whereas the W(TA)songs just plod along with little variation. All that happens to spice things up are random little licks from Nels Cline. And that is not a good use for a musician of Nels' brilliance.

 

Same goes for Kotche, by the way. The drums could have been way more interesting on W(TA).

 

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. I think there are some very cool things happening in this song. And I hardly think inspiration is an issue here, unless you can point out other Tweedy songs that employ the same device. As someone else mentioned...using the same technique that worked so well in some other song wouldn't have been particularly creative. This one sounds fresh to my ears. This is hardly my favorite Wilco album, but the lyrics in I'll Fight are the least of my complaints.

[learnhowtosteer]

 

How do you know Glenn's hubcaps didn't appear on W(TA)?

 

 

Glenn may have played his toothbrush for all I know . . . The thing is, most of the drums on W(TA) sound like . . . drums. Which isn't, in and of itself a bad thing. I love Glenn's playing on Sky Blue Sky--I think it complements Jeff's lyrics perfectly.

 

But there is something that is not quite congruent between the words and the music on W(TA). On Sky Blue Sky, you can tell that they are all really listening to each other, playing off of Jeff's words and each other's notes.

 

On W(TA) the music doesn't really illuminate Jeff's lyrics. At its worst, like on 'Country Disappeared,' everyone just sort of sounds like they are sleepwalking through their performances. Directness and simplicity is fine. But flat, disengaged performances are not. That's really not what I had come to expect from these guys.

[bleedorange]

Glenn may have played his toothbrush for all I know . . . The thing is, most of the drums on W(TA) sound like . . . drums. Which isn't, in and of itself a bad thing. I love Glenn's playing on Sky Blue Sky--I think it complements Jeff's lyrics perfectly.

 

But there is something that is not quite congruent between the words and the music on W(TA). On Sky Blue Sky, you can tell that they are all really listening to each other, playing off of Jeff's words and each other's notes.

 

On W(TA) the music doesn't really illuminate Jeff's lyrics. At its worst, like on 'Country Disappeared,' everyone just sort of sounds like they are sleepwalking through their performances. Directness and simplicity is fine. But flat, disengaged performances are not. That's really not what I had come to expect from these guys.

 

Hmm...I don't hear flat, disengaged performances. Am I listening incorrectly?

[choo-choo-charlie]

If every album after YHF sounded like YHF, many folks might have dismissed Wilco as a one-trick pony.

 

THANK YOU! I've been saying this for a long time - more outside of VC than here on the board, but I've mentioned it a handful of times.

 

Stick with the formula = unimaginative

Stray from the formuala = not playing to the strengths

 

Ya just can't win...

[jakobnicholas]

Stick with the formula = unimaginative

Stray from the formula = not playing to the strengths

 

Ya just can't win...

 

 

I think on W(TA), Wilco "stuck with the formula", which is why I and many others find it just kinda so-so overall. Most songs on W(TA) make me think of past Wilco songs that are much better. It sucks for Wilco, but they've created their own monster. After a long string of very rewarding, challenging, unique music, for some of us this new record sounds like treading water. That's not saying it's a bad record. It just doesn't raise the bar higher. In some cases it lowers the bar.

 

Bull Black Nova and Solitaire are the 2 songs that make me feel the Wilco magic. Those are the only songs where I feel Wilco strayed from thier comfort zone. Deeper Down as well, perhaps.

 

Wilco (The Song) comes close, but how can a Wilco fan not immediately compare it Always In Love? One Wing is beautiful, but it reminds me a bit of Impossible Germany, which I like better. I'll Fight sounds like a Mermaid Avenue song, but not good enough to make those records.

 

W(TA) is a nice record, nothing more. I so badly wish Tweedy and the crew would make an album that sounded like Wilcobook or some of the Loose Fur tracks. Many of those songs just sound so freaking ballsy and creative. They're capable of making another bold record, I'm just not sure if they really want to.

[willywoody]

I think on W(TA), Wilco "stuck with the formula", which is why I and many others find it just kinda so-so overall. Most songs on W(TA) make me think of past Wilco songs that are much better. It sucks for Wilco, but they've created their own monster. After a long string of very rewarding, challenging, unique music, for some of us this new record sounds like treading water. That's not saying it's a bad record. It just doesn't raise the bar higher. In some cases it lowers the bar.

 

Bull Black Nova and Solitaire are the 2 songs that make me feel the Wilco magic. Those are the only songs where I feel Wilco strayed from thier comfort zone. Deeper Down as well, perhaps.

 

Wilco (The Song) comes close, but how can a Wilco fan not immediately compare it Always In Love? One Wing is beautiful, but it reminds me a bit of Impossible Germany, which I like better. I'll Fight sounds like a Mermaid Avenue song, but not good enough to make those records.

 

W(TA) is a nice record, nothing more. I so badly wish Tweedy and the crew would make an album that sounded like Wilcobook or some of the Loose Fur tracks. Many of those songs just sound so freaking ballsy and creative. They're capable of making another bold record, I'm just not sure if they really want to.

 

 

I agree. Last time I listened to it I actually got mad. Don't know if I just wasn't in the mood for it at the time or what, but I haven't listened to it again in nearly a month. Guess it's about time to try it again.

[Guest Jules]

Wilco (The Song) comes close, but how can a Wilco fan not immediately compare it Always In Love?

Because they're completely different?

[Guest Speed Racer]

Bull Black Nova and Solitaire are the 2 songs that make me feel the Wilco magic.

 

I love Solitaire, but I pray every time it starts that the stupid organ run in the intro has been nixed. Every flippin' time.

 

They're capable of making another bold record, I'm just not sure if they really want to.

 

Yeah, I hate it when bands make albums on their terms and not mine.