Politics 2015

[KevinG]

How do you think people get rich, by being earnest, honest, and working hard?

 

The Donald's repercussions will be that his legacy will be: He's a buffoon. 

 

I'd like to live in your nirvana too, but I live in the USA, and it's the greatest country in the world. But, nobody gets treated fairly. That's not possible.

 

So we should just give up, eh?  Let the inmates run the asylum.  No body is treated fairly, so let's have the front runner of a major political party say terrible, terrible things.  There are idiots in every walks of life.   If Trump wasn't running for president I wouldn't have an issue, but he is.  He is the freaking front runner, even if he is not going to win he is getting press and media attention for his nonsense, with no repercussions. 

 

We can and should be better then to let Trump slide.  Our country is not perfect we have inequality everywhere.  But shouldn't at least try to make it better?  

[Hixter]

His rhetoric is not being actively and routinely criticized and denounced, by the media

We must live on different planets.

[calvino]

We must live on different planets.

 

I agree, Trump is getting his share of push back from the media -- both from the right and left. He may deserve more, but he is getting it.

 

The pundits on the 'established' right are not fond of him. (Will/Brooks, etc.)

[uncool2pillow]

I'm a moderate Republican. I will not vote for Trump or Cruz or Carson. If they're nominated, I will vote or ant Democrat. I voted Obama in 2008 mostly because of Palin. I voted for Romney in 2012.

[lost highway]

Romney is looking pretty moderate these days, even with his "self deportation" and x% of the people will vote for Obama so they can get handouts comments.

 

He was no Carson or Trump, I'll give him that.

[Winston Legthigh]

So we should just give up, eh?  Let the inmates run the asylum.  No body is treated fairly, so let's have the front runner of a major political party say terrible, terrible things.  There are idiots in every walks of life.   If Trump wasn't running for president I wouldn't have an issue, but he is.  He is the freaking front runner, even if he is not going to win he is getting press and media attention for his nonsense, with no repercussions. 

 

We can and should be better then to let Trump slide.  Our country is not perfect we have inequality everywhere.  But shouldn't at least try to make it better?  

Give up?

 

No need for melodrama. 

 

You keep mentioning repercussions, and I don't understand what you're seeking. His repercussions are that he won't become President. His critics are many. 

 

But - what kind of repercussions are you after that will satisfy you? Do you want the other candidates, or for Preibus to reprimand him and ask him to step down? Why would they do that? He's leading in the polls. He's not the first, nor last candidate that will offend some. 

[LouieB]

Every election has the "if so and so is elected I am moving" routine, both left and right and no one really leaves.  (Well maybe a handful do.)  As we all know, the president really doesn't do nearly as much as anyone thinks they do (or can or wants to or is capable of.)  Ultimately the government is run by the government.  It can be helped or hindered by the chief executive and the congress, but ultimately it plods along in it's own fashion.  Neither the left or the right want a smaller government, they just want the same large government but maybe regulating different things.  And everyone wants the government to regulate health and safety when a problem a rises, but rarely when there doesn't seem to be a problem. 

 

As for the actual welfare of the actual citizens?  That's probably the lowest priority the government seems to have. Because if that was a real priority, social safety nets would be a real concern instead of election year grandstanding.  The right is out to protect their interests and the left it's interests, but rarely anymore is the general warfare part of the conversation (if it were we would have had real healthcare reform and universal coverage rather than the patchwork we do have.)

 

LouieB

[Doug C]

Lou, 

A few days ago you typed "Hixtler" in a post. I put it down to a typo. But now with "general warfare" I wonder if it isn't a pattern of Freudian slips! 

[LouieB]

Hey, I'm good with that.  Just my bad spelling that's all, but not unbelievable is it?  I think I'll leave it for laughs.  The business of government is pretty much warfare isn't it?  Where would we be without it??

 

You have solicited a smile from me. 

 

I may be the one of the last people to read a daily newspaper; and every morning it is a dreadful experience.  We are most certainly at war with each other if nothing else.

 

LoueB

[Lammycat]

 

 

I may be the one of the last people to read a daily newspaper; and every morning it is a dreadful experience.  We are most certainly at war with each other if nothing else.

 

LoueB

I watched the news by default (came on after the football game) last night with my wife, and after reports on the "terrorist-tied" San Bernadino couple, a Denver nurse held hostage at gun point at a Veteran's hospital, and on a S.W.A.T. team and a large portion of the Denver Police at my son's high school due to a student with a gun report, I had to turn it off. Too  much fucked up stuff. 

[KevinG]

 

But - what kind of repercussions are you after that will satisfy you? Do you want the other candidates, or for Preibus to reprimand him and ask him to step down? 

 

That is exactly what I am looking for.  There needs to be calls for him to step down.  He is unfit for office and he is an embarrassment to the Republican party and this nation.  If there was someone like him on the Dem side I would be disgusted to associate with that party.  He and needs to realize that we as a country his lies and rhetoric have no place in this country.  Even though he only has 20 some percent (which as shown is only actually 6% of the electorate), he is the GOP front runner.  He is representing the GOP.  Right now Trump is what the GOP is to America and the rest of the world.  And right now the GOP is a bigoted, racist, liar.  

 

Our politicians should be better.  They need to represent the best in us.  Trump right now represents the worst.  

 

 

 Why would they do that? He's leading in the polls. He's not the first, nor last candidate that will offend some. 

 

Why would they do that, because they need to have respect, respect for the political process, respect for their party and respect for people of this country.

 

But here is the thing, they won't.  Not because he will eventually burn out and fade away (which agreed he probably will).  It is because they are cowards.  They are cowards.  They are afraid of pissing off the segment of their party who believe in his bullshit.  They are afraid of him running as a third party candidate.  So they let him slide.  Oh sure there will be some attacks, some mentions here and there by candidates, and the media.  The comedy shows will continue to paint him as a clown.  But there will be no call for him step down which is what should happen.  

 

I know I am tilting at windmills here.  And really my issue is not with Trump.  It is what he represents.  It is the malaise of electorate, seeing him as a joke, and not taking him seriously.  But his message is resonating, the way he runs his campaign is working.  Like I said before I am not worried about 2016, it is future elections.

[bleedorange]

I watched the news by default (came on after the football game) last night with my wife, and after reports on the "terrorist-tied" San Bernadino couple, a Denver nurse held hostage at gun point at a Veteran's hospital, and on a S.W.A.T. team and a large portion of the Denver Police at my son's high school due to a student with a gun report, I had to turn it off. Too  much fucked up stuff. 

 

Yeah, a kid here in Fort Worth pulled a gun in a McDonald's parking lot and shot once in the air. He was later arrested and so was another kid who had taken the gun and hidden it inside the neighboring high school. I love guns. It's so great to have them be the defining fabric of American life.

[bleedorange]

That is exactly what I am looking for.  There needs to be calls for him to step down.  He is unfit for office and he is an embarrassment to the Republican party and this nation.  If there was someone like him on the Dem side I would be disgusted to associate with that party.  He and needs to realize that we as a country his lies and rhetoric have no place in this country.  Even though he only has 20 some percent (which as shown is only actually 6% of the electorate), he is the GOP front runner.  He is representing the GOP.  Right now Trump is what the GOP is to America and the rest of the world.  And right now the GOP is a bigoted, racist, liar.  

 

Our politicians should be better.  They need to represent the best in us.  Trump right now represents the worst.  

 

 

 

Why would the do that, because the need to have respect, respect for the political process, respect for their party and respect for people of this country.

 

But here is the thing, they won't.  Not because he will eventually burn out and fade away (which agreed he probably will).  It is because they are cowards.  They are cowards.  They are afraid of pissing off the segment of their party who believe in his bullshit.  They are afraid of him running as a third party candidate.  So they let him slide.  Oh sure there will be some attacks, some mentions here and there by candidates, and the media.  The comedy shows will continue to paint him as a clown.  But there will be no call for him step down which is what should happen.  

 

I know I am tilting at windmills here.  And really my issue is not with Trump.  It is what he represents.  It is the malaise of electorate, seeing him as a joke, and not taking him seriously.  But his message is resonating, the way he runs his campaign is working.  Like I said before I am not worried about 2016, it is future elections.

 

I really think you're jumping the gun here. Nobody is paying attention to any of this yet. So somebody barely leading in the polls at this point means very little. If we get to the summer and he's still there, then you might have a case. Until then, it just doesn't matter. He no more represents the bulk of the Republican Party than any other candidate right now. He could even win Iowa and it wouldn't matter. The last two winners there were Rick Santorum and Mike Huckabee. I just think your consternation and dismay is premature.

[Winston Legthigh]

Our politicians should be better.  They need to represent the best in us.  Trump right now represents the worst.  

 

Which is why we have elections.

[Winston Legthigh]

 

But here is the thing, they won't.  Not because he will eventually burn out and fade away (which agreed he probably will).  It is because they are cowards.  They are cowards.  They are afraid of pissing off the segment of their party who believe in his bullshit.  They are afraid of him running as a third party candidate.  So they let him slide.  Oh sure there will be some attacks, some mentions here and there by candidates, and the media.  The comedy shows will continue to paint him as a clown.  But there will be no call for him step down which is what should happen.  

 

There's also the tactic of "Why waste energy on trying to make him look bad when he's perfectly capable of doing it himself," which seems to be the style of the other candidates. 

[Lammycat]

Yeah, a kid here in Fort Worth pulled a gun in a McDonald's parking lot and shot once in the air. He was later arrested and so was another kid who had taken the gun and hidden it inside the neighboring high school. I love guns. It's so great to have them be the defining fabric of American life.

I wonder if terrorists are exploiting the lax gun laws. Hmmmm.....

[KevinG]

There's also the tactic of "Why waste energy on trying to make him look bad when he's perfectly capable of doing it himself," which seems to be the style of the other candidates. 

 

But he hasn't made himself look bad.  He has said some pretty awful things and only gathered more support.  Which I can't seem to fathom.  

 

 

I really think you're jumping the gun here. Nobody is paying attention to any of this yet. So somebody barely leading in the polls at this point means very little. If we get to the summer and he's still there, then you might have a case. Until then, it just doesn't matter. He no more represents the bulk of the Republican Party than any other candidate right now. He could even win Iowa and it wouldn't matter. The last two winners there were Rick Santorum and Mike Huckabee. I just think your consternation and dismay is premature.

 

You are right.  I am jumping the gun.  Iowa hasn't even happened, yet.  I just dislike his rhetoric so much, I just wish it would stop.  Believe it or not I worked in DC in the mid 90s for an extremely conservative senator.  One thing he taught me was that politicians had a duty to their constituents to represent the best ideals of the people, regardless political leanings.   To be above all, a statesmen, to conduct oneself with the utmost respect and have respect for all people.  Trump completely goes against that ideal and I fear, future politicians will see his playbook and follow suit.  

 

I think I'll settle down for now.

[Doug C]

Kevin,

You are earnest and I respect that. Regarding Trump, we have always had demagogues running for president and we always will. Trump, if he really believes the nonsense that he bloviates, is morally bankrupt (and as Winston Legthigh said, a large helping of moral bankruptcy is usually required to become so wealthy). But he is never going to get the nomination, much less be elected president. I am not surprised that he has support, I'd be surprised if he didn't. Also, I agree that he IS getting plenty of criticism. I am not worried that he is a portent for America. You are correct that some future politicians will emulate him, just as he is emulating past politicians. If we didn't elect a fascist (or a communist) during the Great Depression, we aren't going to elect one any time soon. If I may offer some unsolicited advice, put your energy elsewhere. Life is too short to get worked up by the likes of Trump, Carson and Cruz, oh my! 

[calvino]

He is the freaking front runner, even if he is not going to win he is getting press and media attention for his nonsense, with no repercussions. 

 

 

 

Maybe Brooks will ease your mind a bit.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/04/opinion/no-donald-trump-wont-win.html?hpw&rref=opinion&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=well-region&region=bottom-well&WT.nav=bottom-well&_r=1

 

 

Also nice front page op-ed by the NY Times today --- see if this gets any traction, sadly I doubt it will. And yes they do write about taking certain types of guns away from lawful owners for the "greater good". 

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/05/opinion/end-the-gun-epidemic-in-america.html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=opinion-c-col-top-region&region=opinion-c-col-top-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-top-region

[Hixter]

Also nice front page op-ed by the NY Times today --- see if this gets any traction, sadly I doubt it will. And yes they do write about taking certain types of guns away from lawful owners for the "greater good". 

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/05/opinion/end-the-gun-epidemic-in-america.html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=opinion-c-col-top-region&region=opinion-c-col-top-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-top-region

It takes a special kind of stupid to react to an ISIS-affiliated terror attack with calls to disarm American civilians.

 

That article just prompted me to join the NRA.

 

[The Inside of Outside]

^^^^^It is good to know that newspapers like the New York Times are still important enough to prompt citizens into action.

[uncool2pillow]

It takes a special kind of stupid to react to an ISIS-affiliated terror attack with calls to disarm American civilians.

 

That article just prompted me to join the NRA.

 

Hixter, in general, I really respect your views. But l would argue that it's a special kind of stupid to not realize that allowing pretty much anyone to buy weapons of war is allowing us to arm terrorists within our own borders. As I argued a couple of pages ago, the organization to which you now belong has absolutely zero interest in keeping arms out of the hands of terrorists. Again, the NRA purports to support gun owners. It really supports gun manufacturers. I believe we ought to be able to protect our lives and our property with firearms, but the NRA is really out of hand. 

 

This graphic is pretty telling.

 

[lost highway]

Yeah, the NRA has gotten some bad press recently for lobbying to keep guns in the hands of people on the terrorist watch list. They helped kill a bill that the majority of gun owners supported.

 

The NRA are corporate shills who prey on ignorance fueled by fear.

[KevinG]

So about the president's speech last night. Pretty clearly laid out his strategy and plan for ISIS, also interesting comments on that other subject (which I will not name). Also really liked how he called out some of the rhetoric by the current slate of GOP candidates.

[Doctor B]

I did not hear a thing that has any credible way of working.  He seems utterly clueless.

 

Maybe you guys should read Manchester's second volume on Churchill