Politics 2016 (election edition)

[Passenger Sid]

It's worth pointing out that we're all taking a leap assuming Hillary would have won the popular vote had winning the popular vote been the known criteria to win going in to the election.

 

Had say, Conservatives in California known the popular vote determined the outcome of the Presidential Election, perhaps more Conservative would have gone to the polls. Maybe more liberal voters would have voted in West Virginia. It's impossible to know how the voting turnout might have changed if the Electoral College was scrapped.

 

So  yeah, Clinton voters can yell "scoreboard" all they want, but I think deep down they know how meaningless that claim is. If a basketball team makes 50 baskets but they're all dunks, they're gonna lose to a team that makes only 34 shots, all of them 3-pointers.

[John Smith]

The Republicans are under no obligation to act as if they won a narrow win for the White House or that their senate and House totals are not veto proof. In the old days they would have worked across the aisle on joint legislation, but these are not the old days. They will attempt to rule as if they won 99% if the vote, they really have no choice. Their base, driven by their media, is a take no prisoners group. I hear them every day, I read what they say,anyone who meets the democrats in the middle is a traitor of sorts, a rino, and will be targeted for cooperation. It's not pretty, it's just the way it is.

[KevinG]

Had say, Conservatives in California known the popular vote determined the outcome of the Presidential Election, perhaps more Conservative would have gone to the polls. Maybe more liberal voters would have voted in West Virginia. It's impossible to know how the voting turnout might have changed if the Electoral College was scrapped.

 

You keep bringing up these hypotheticals, if this city was taken out, if this group didn't vote, if the electoral college was this, etc.  We can't guess what would have happened, all we can really do is look at what did happen.  The fact remains, of the votes that were cast, a majority of them went against not only Trump, but Republican Party.  I am not saying the outcome of the election should be changed, but the party that won the election needs to understand.  That is it.  But clearly it won't.

 

 

 

So  yeah, Clinton voters can yell "scoreboard" all they want, but I think deep down they know how meaningless that claim is. If a basketball team makes 50 baskets but they're all dunks, they're gonna lose to a team that makes only 34 shots, all of them 3-pointers.

 

A better sports metaphor is a basketball team scored more points, but its opponent was given a few extra points because their stadium was farther away.  

[Passenger Sid]

You keep bringing up these hypotheticals, if this city was taken out, if this group didn't vote, if the electoral college was this, etc.  We can't guess what would have happened, all we can really do is look at what did happen.  The fact remains, of the votes that were cast, a majority of them went against not only Trump, but Republican Party.  I am not saying the outcome of the election should be changed, but the party that won the election needs to understand.  That is it.  But clearly it won't.

 

 

 

A better sports metaphor is a basketball team scored more points, but its opponent was given a few extra points because their stadium was farther away.  

 

I think my metaphor works pretty well. Both sides know the rules going in. Each side must strategize the best way to come out on top. Trump was able to flip a few blue states. 

 

If it was, oddly, declared by President Obama and Congress that the 2016 Election was gonna be re-done in a month. And if the law was changed to be that the popular vote winner would be declared President. If my life depended on picking the winner, I honestly don't know who I'd pick. I truly believe the country, added altogether, is split. 

 

I have no problem with people saying Hillary won the popular vote because it's true. But I also think that saying that is implying that, of the 2, she's the one that most Americans want to be President. I don't believe that.

[Winston Legthigh]

http://www.newyorker.com/cartoons/a20072

[tinnitus photography]

It's worth pointing out that we're all taking a leap assuming Hillary would have won the popular vote had winning the popular vote been the known criteria to win going in to the election.

 

Had say, Conservatives in California known the popular vote determined the outcome of the Presidential Election, perhaps more Conservative would have gone to the polls. Maybe more liberal voters would have voted in West Virginia. It's impossible to know how the voting turnout might have changed if the Electoral College was scrapped.

 

So  yeah, Clinton voters can yell "scoreboard" all they want, but I think deep down they know how meaningless that claim is. If a basketball team makes 50 baskets but they're all dunks, they're gonna lose to a team that makes only 34 shots, all of them 3-pointers.

i have no idea what point you are trying to make, but if you are still trying to pretend that Trump has some sort of mandate, keep trying.

[ih8music]

Trump certainly doesn't have a mandate given that he lost the popular vote, but the Republican party can make that argument since they're in control of both Congress and the White House.  

 

I'm really interested to see what they do about Obamacare -- it's been such an easy target for them to attack, but actually repealing/replacing it will take some actual work.  I have yet to see a concrete vision of what they would replace it with, nor do I see anyone stepping up to the plate with specific ideas.

[KevinG]

i have no idea what point you are trying to make, but if you are still trying to pretend that Trump has some sort of mandate, keep trying.

 

This is my point all along.  Which started out with the protesters being called babies or sour grapes or something ridiculous.  I understand how the electoral college works.  I understand that come January Trump will be the President of the United States.  Responsible for bringing this country together.  To effectively do this, he and the Republicans need to understand they did not get the majority of the votes cast for President, Senate, and the House of Representatives.  They need to understand why the people are protesting and why they are unhappy.  They do not need to implement liberal policies.  They way the GOP is acting now, is that they have the mandate, or that they some how won the election by a landslide and the people want their policies.  A majority of people who voted do not.  Now, we can only go off the votes that were counted, not some mythical do over by popular vote or whatever hypothetical situation that Passenger Sid has dreamed up.  Voting is the will of the people.  

 

Trump will ultimately fail, because he does not understand the country that elected him.  And the people who are now in power are doing the same thing.  This is the same reason Clinton lost.  She did not understand the voters of this country.  

 

Of course this is what I think trump should do, govern with some sense of responsibility and for the country as a whole, not just the Republican Party or those who have voted for him.  Clearly this is not what he is going to do.  You cannot appoint a confirmed and verified racist as one of your top advisers.  Simply right there, you are saying that as President I will take the advise and council of a person who does not value women or minorities.  

 

And clearly he doesn't even care about the people who voted for him in his potential Sec State nominee John Bolton, who so overly militant it is crazy.  Which is directly against Trump's isolationist policies.  

 

 

... but the Republican party can make that argument since they're in control of both Congress and the White House.  

 

They can make that argument, but it is tentative at best.  Gerrymandering gave them control of the House and the two seat per state gave them control of the Senate.  A majority of votes cast in 2016 election where for Democrats across the board. http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2016/11/10/democrats-won-popular-vote-senate-too/93598998/

[tinnitus photography]

[KevinG]

^^ only one of the three is wearing pants

[Tweedling]

Those who did not vote do not get to be counted in this exercise and in IMHO they are worthless cowards.

 

For someone who mentioned he doesn't like name calling you sure have been good at it.

[Winston Legthigh]

Those who did not vote do not get to be counted in this exercise and in IMHO they are worthless cowards.  

 

Great country.

[Lammycat]

Choosing not to vote is a vote in itself. I'm sure there are as many informed non-voters as there are un-informed voters.

[calvino]

I think one needs to actually vote to enter any discourse. Even a vote for a third or whatever party is a vote.

 

I know about 3 people who voted for Johnson - I think that was his name. And all of them are from IL and all of them knew Johnson didn't have a chance, but they were hoping for him (or someone) to break that 5% point in total votes. To try to get a third party in the game.

[tinnitus photography]

and how would 5% make the libertarian party somehow relevant?


does anyone remember the lasting effect of Ross Perot's 19% vote totals in 92? because I don't.

[Winston Legthigh]

and how would 5% make the libertarian party somehow relevant?

 

 

does anyone remember the lasting effect of Ross Perot's 19% vote totals in 92? because I don't.

If a party gets 5%, they get federal campaign funding. 

 

Since Perot was not affiliated with a party, it doesn't apply.

[KevinG]

For someone who mentioned he doesn't like name calling you sure have been good at it.

 

I did?  I don't remember saying that.  But hey, I guess you know.    

 

I am good at name calling, as well?  I figured I was pretty bad at it.      

 

I guess it ok not to vote then.  Non-voters are great!  They totally have a say in our government and it is good they didn't vote.  Yeah non-voters.  They proved their bravery and worthiness in society, by sitting out of the most fundamental and basic tenants of our government, representation.  Good for you non-voters!  You are the freaking best.    

[ih8music]

I take it you guys have forgotten about the Reform Party? They were doing ok in the mid-late 90s (although Perot and Jesse The Body Ventura are the only two candidates I recall from memory) but they fizzled out after the 2000 election when people were reminded of the consequences of voting 3rd party.

[tinnitus photography]

If a party gets 5%, they get federal campaign funding. 

 

Since Perot was not affiliated with a party, it doesn't apply.

thanks, good to know!

[Winston Legthigh]

I take it you guys have forgotten about the Reform Party? They were doing ok in the mid-late 90s (although Perot and Jesse The Body Ventura are the only two candidates I recall from memory) but they fizzled out after the 2000 election when people were reminded of the consequences of voting 3rd party.

Definitely forgot. I would have said that Jesse ran as an independent. 

 

3rd parties should definitely be viable. There's got to be something that would get the other 50% out to vote. 

[Lammycat]

and how would 5% make the libertarian party somehow relevant?

 

 

does anyone remember the lasting effect of Ross Perot's 19% vote totals in 92? because I don't.

I do remember Ross Perot hooting it up with an alien:

[uncool2pillow]

I just realized I had no idea whether he was still alive. He is at age 86. That alien probably gave him the secret to immortality.

[Tweedling]

I did? I don't remember saying that. But hey, I guess you know.

 

I am good at name calling, as well? I figured I was pretty bad at it.

 

I guess it ok not to vote then. Non-voters are great! They totally have a say in our government and it is good they didn't vote. Yeah non-voters. They proved their bravery and worthiness in society, by sitting out of the most fundamental and basic tenants of our government, representation. Good for you non-voters! You are the freaking best.

I just found it peculiar l when you stated you don't like name calling since I've noticed over the years you throw out names. Asshats, idiots, rubes, cowards?

You don't have to praise a non-voter. And I don't think if someone chose not to place a vote for a presidential nominee that it makes them a coward.

[Lammycat]

I just realized I had no idea whether he was still alive. He is at age 86. That alien probably gave him the secret to immortality.

He switched to the Republican Party not too long after this revealing photo was captured.

[NoJ]

One thing I know for certain is I will never pay attention to the results of a political poll ever again. Those bums are worse than weather forecasters.