caliber66 Posted May 30, 2007 Share Posted May 30, 2007 Fair enough. Would that I'd ever accused Tweedy of "selling out," eh? It's not a very incisive term, and it doesn't quite fit what I'm "accusing" him of doing. Which is helping to sell cars by leasing his music. Which... is what he's doing.And you're suggesting that it's wrong from any point of view, unless you do, in fact, need to reword your position yet again. Unless I'm reading this incorrectly: Are you asking me to change my way of thinking with this paragraph, even after I've amply demonstrated that this leopard's spots ain't about to change, or are you simply stating that others are entitled to their take on this scenario? Because if it's the former, you haven't been paying attention to what I've been saying. And if it's the latter, you still haven't been paying attention. If the "scenario" in question is Wilco selling a (or several) song(s) to VW for inclusion in a couple commercials, then yes, others are entitled to opinions different from yours. If you mean your personal take on the situation, of course that's all yours. Link to post Share on other sites
Spawn's dad Posted May 30, 2007 Share Posted May 30, 2007 Dali Lahmas can't retire....... -Robert. but they can lie, I guess!! NORTHAMPTON, Massachusetts (Reuters) -- The Dalai Lama, Tibet's spiritual leader, said he was ready to retire in a few years but will keep championing causes to help the Tibetan people, culture and environment. Speaking at Smith College in Massachusetts Wednesday to about 5,000 students, faculty and invited guests of the Tibetan community, Tibet's exiled and revered spiritual leader said he already sees himself semi-retired. "Within a few years' time, I will retire completely," the 71-year-old monk and Nobel Peace Prize winner said. The Dalai Lama has lived in Dharamsala, India, in the outer Himalayas, since 1959. He was active in establishing there the Central Tibetan Administration, Tibet's government in exile. He was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize in 1989. Wearing a yellow-and-maroon robe, he said he was honored to have been recognized in the world for his "small contribution to the welfare of humanity." He suggested the elected Tibetan leadership in exile can soon carry on his mission. The Dalai Lama says he wants greater autonomy, not independence, for his predominantly Buddhist homeland, but China considers him a separatist and accuses him of continuing to promote Tibetan independence. A boy the Dalai Lama picked as successor is believed to have been under house arrest since 1995 when he was 6 years old. Human rights groups call him the world's youngest political prisoner. The Dalai Lama fled to India in 1959 after a failed uprising against Communist rule, nine years after the Chinese army marched into Tibet. "The Tibetan nation is passing through its darkest period in 2,000 years," he told the gathering. In recent years, Smith College has collaborated with a nearby college to sustain a program of annual academic exchanges with exiled Tibetan scholars. Link to post Share on other sites
Good Old Neon Posted May 30, 2007 Author Share Posted May 30, 2007 He's saying "selling out" has everything to do with Tweedy's principles, and nothing to do with yours. But, just because Tweedy Link to post Share on other sites
TheMaker Posted May 30, 2007 Share Posted May 30, 2007 Also, Tweedy has always been a strong proponent of his audience playing an active role in the creation of his art. "Really, 50 percent of music is the listener's reaction to it," he once said in an interview, and he's certainly espoused the sentiment elsewhere. If you really want to stick on Tweedy "selling out," maybe we should examine this philosophy. When Jeff wrote "The Thanks I Get," I wonder if he ever thought his audience's reaction to the piece would be to buy a Volkswagon or turn the channel. I wonder if he's pleased that thousands of people will be doing those things. That's food for thought, certainly. Link to post Share on other sites
caliber66 Posted May 30, 2007 Share Posted May 30, 2007 I bet he'd be thrilled there's a 35 page thread of fans discussing his decision. Link to post Share on other sites
LouieB Posted May 30, 2007 Share Posted May 30, 2007 nah, Mike Watt sold out too, he's playing bass on Kelly Clarkson's new album. I don't even want to know this.... LouieB Link to post Share on other sites
OOO Posted May 30, 2007 Share Posted May 30, 2007 We, as a society, lose something, intangible as it may be, every time a true artists sells themselves for the sake of advertising. Or so I think. I Link to post Share on other sites
owl Posted May 30, 2007 Share Posted May 30, 2007 Has anyone considered that the traditional avenues for making money in the music business are becoming less useful? I imagine that as overall CD sales fall, "artists" will be more inclined to sell their tracks individually and for advertising. You may find that "selling out" in 5 years means something completely different than it did in the Fugazi days. Link to post Share on other sites
jc4prez Posted May 30, 2007 Share Posted May 30, 2007 I havent been around the board too much these past few weeks so I am going to apologize in advance if what I am about to say has been said many times before. I was in shock when I logged on to this 35 page thread going on the topic of selling out. If there was ever an artist who deserved to make a few extra bucks its Jeff Tweedy. He's been one of the most underappericated song writers of the post sixties era. On top of that I can't think of any band that has done more for their fans and poteinal fans then Wilco. They have given us more webcasts and soundboards then any band I can think of (The Grateful Dead don't even allow soundboard tapes to be traded online anymore). They also have had their record streaming on thier site 2 mounths prior to it coming out. What band basiclly give there album up for grabs at any point. I could go on for hours about all the music theyve given away. Not to metion all the chairty work Jeff has done in the past. I guess this only shows that some people will never be happy. Am I saying that I like that their songs are be degraded in a commerical; no. But its not like these commericals are going to be all over the place, most people will see the ad and still have no idea who the fuck Wilco is. It's not like when Zepplin or the band sell their stuff out and you hear it every time you turn on the tv. Sure I'd like it if they didn't put their music on commericals but what can you do; in the end it was the bands choice. Again though I can't see where anyone gets off bitiching; you all sound like a bunch of spoiled brats. I would be complaining as well if it was any other band. But honestly if it gets Wilco a few more listeners great; if it only gives Jeff money to by the kids a swimming pool I'm happy as well. I for one am grateful for all the free music and charity work they have done. I can't really see any argument for why this is a wrong move for "THIS" band. Link to post Share on other sites
caliber66 Posted May 30, 2007 Share Posted May 30, 2007 Again though I can't see where anyone gets off bitiching; you all sound like a bunch of spoiled brats. I would be complaining as well if it was any other band. But honestly if it gets Wilco a few more listeners great; if it only gives Jeff money to by the kids a swimming pool I'm happy as well.He better make sure the pool isn't shit, though. Link to post Share on other sites
Good Old Neon Posted May 30, 2007 Author Share Posted May 30, 2007 You are very good at getting your thoughts across, and its one that lots of people agree with and you have good points to back up your argument. But the point I highlighted I think is very important. The sentence before it is an opinion. It's valid and fine and I somewhat agree with it, but clearly some people on this board haven't lost anything, tangible or not, because of Jeff's decision to sell his music. Sidenote: you seem like a nice guy after all and you'll end up fitting in well here. Selling art solely for the purpose of advertising objectifies art itself - the best, purest and most profound contribution humans have to offer Link to post Share on other sites
aricandover Posted May 30, 2007 Share Posted May 30, 2007 You are so right, Bruce stays non-commercial by having 30 or so "farewell last show ever" tours and sells tickets for 275 a pop. That's so Indy of him, stick it to the fans. just wait til Bruce performs on American Idol next season. Link to post Share on other sites
bobfrombob Posted May 30, 2007 Share Posted May 30, 2007 You are so right, Bruce stays non-commercial by having 30 or so "farewell last show ever" tours and sells tickets for 275 a pop. That's so Indy of him, stick it to the fans.Er, Bruce has never had a "farewell tour" and never sold tickets for $275 (notwithstanding private fundraisers). If you can show me an example, I'll apologize. PS: I visited your profile and love the paintings! (You're still wrong about Bruce) Link to post Share on other sites
caliber66 Posted May 30, 2007 Share Posted May 30, 2007 Selling art solely for the purpose of advertising objectifies art itself - the best, purest and most profound contribution humans have to offer Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Speed Racer Posted May 30, 2007 Share Posted May 30, 2007 What has the band lost as a result of this decision in terms of integrity? Do the monetary gains outweigh the damage done to their reputation and the world of genuine art as a whole? "Harriet! What the fuck is that noise all up on the television?! Turn it down, woman!" "Will who?! John, I just don't understand what you see in that banal crap." "Aw snap! Is that Wilco? I forgot their new album came out! Bye Mom, I'm off to Best Buy!" "Shit! Wilco sold their music to a commercial?! I told you they jumped the shark after he left those two Jays." "I ought to buy a Volkswagen. That retractable key they have is hott..." If you know it's them and hate it, you've already made your decision. If you don't know it and hate it, it wouldn't have been any different, probably. If you know it and love it, you've already made your decision. If you don't know it and love it, you're a lucky sonofabitch. Link to post Share on other sites
Embarcadero_Skies Posted May 30, 2007 Share Posted May 30, 2007 I guess Isaac Brock the rest of Modest Mouse are sellout's too... when has it been a crime musically speaking to feed your children? It's clear to fans that Jeff leads a humble and modest lifestyle, he drives a Honda for Christ sake (sorry Honda owners - it's no Bentley) I agree with OWL, times have changed. Link to post Share on other sites
Embarcadero_Skies Posted May 30, 2007 Share Posted May 30, 2007 Er, Bruce has never had a "farewell tour" and never sold tickets for $275 (notwithstanding private fundraisers). If you can show me an example, I'll apologize.PS: I visited your profile and love the paintings! (You're still wrong about Bruce) Alright, I may have conjured that up in my brain (I fell like I heard it when he did a Meadowlands run a few years back), I'm a New Yalka we hate all things west of the Hudson ;-) I hope I haven't damaged my street cred. As for the paintings, they are the work of one my best friends Chris Barnard (he turned me on to Wilco while working together at NYU) He left his day job for a fellowship at USC. I own a few of his pieces, huge fan. Link to post Share on other sites
Good Old Neon Posted May 30, 2007 Author Share Posted May 30, 2007 I guess Isaac Brock the rest of Modest Mouse are sellout's too... when has it been a crime musically speaking to feed your children? It's clear to fans that Jeff leads a humble and modest lifestyle, he drives a Honda for Christ sake (sorry Honda owners - it's no Bentley) I agree with OWL, times have changed. No offense but, if he drives a Honda, well then, why is he, whether indirectly or not, endorsing Volkswagen? Shouldn Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Speed Racer Posted May 30, 2007 Share Posted May 30, 2007 No offense but, if he drives a Honda, well then, why is he, whether indirectly or not, endorsing Volkswagen? Shouldn Link to post Share on other sites
caliber66 Posted May 30, 2007 Share Posted May 30, 2007 No offense but, if he drives a Honda, well then, why is he, whether indirectly or not, endorsing Volkswagen? Shouldn Link to post Share on other sites
ction Posted May 30, 2007 Share Posted May 30, 2007 Jeff Tweedy didn't do an ad endorsing VW. Wilco accepted money to allow VW to create an ad that features one of its songs. Link to post Share on other sites
Embarcadero_Skies Posted May 30, 2007 Share Posted May 30, 2007 No offense but, if he drives a Honda, well then, why is he, whether indirectly or not, endorsing Volkswagen? Shouldn Link to post Share on other sites
ction Posted May 30, 2007 Share Posted May 30, 2007 Jeff Tweedy didn't do an ad endorsing VW. Wilco accepted money to allow VW to create an ad that features one of its songs. 5 songs, actually. 5 songs, actually. Good bit. Link to post Share on other sites
napoleon Posted May 30, 2007 Share Posted May 30, 2007 we all know jeff has a fetish with germany. impossible germany, once in germany someone said nein, kamera, krautrock spiders, and now voltswagen. so that explains the song. but what i want to know is why elvis costello is in a voltswagen commercial. Link to post Share on other sites
Preferred B Posted May 30, 2007 Share Posted May 30, 2007 Still on topic, on page 36 - I'm kind of impressed. (I haven't read them all, mind you.) Link to post Share on other sites
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