Good Old Neon Posted May 30, 2007 Author Share Posted May 30, 2007 is this, like, a sex thing? crevices? dude. I Link to post Share on other sites
drag ass snag Posted May 30, 2007 Share Posted May 30, 2007 Gary? sorry, not gary! and i'm going home now 'fraid, but keep posting people! we should hit the big five-oh around midnight gmt. perfect! Link to post Share on other sites
Basil II Posted May 30, 2007 Share Posted May 30, 2007 I got involved in the DIY punk community at a very young age (back in the mid eighties.), at a time in which selling music to major corporations was tantamount to heresy. It Link to post Share on other sites
aricandover Posted May 30, 2007 Share Posted May 30, 2007 Whoa.........you really are Mike Watt!!!!!I keed ,I keed!!!! -Robert. nah, Mike Watt sold out too, he's playing bass on Kelly Clarkson's new album. Link to post Share on other sites
Good Old Neon Posted May 30, 2007 Author Share Posted May 30, 2007 Whoa.........you really are Mike Watt!!!!!I keed ,I keed!!!! -Robert. Down with the bass!! Link to post Share on other sites
Spawn's dad Posted May 30, 2007 Share Posted May 30, 2007 Gary? yeah but tell me where it's actually from....and not from some website clearing house for lofty quotes. Link to post Share on other sites
TheMaker Posted May 30, 2007 Share Posted May 30, 2007 My consistent position: I understand why many people feel this action is a crass move, and am even sympathetic to that position, but I also believe there are other ways of thinking about it that do not demand a breakdown of principle. I'm okay, you're okay! With due respect, I can't meet you in such a liberal arts college Happy Place. It'd sure be nice if I could, but this particular principle of mine is one of the few I consider inviolable. Are you asking me to change my way of thinking with this paragraph, even after I've amply demonstrated that this leopard's spots ain't about to change, or are you simply stating that others are entitled to their take on this scenario? Because if it's the former, you haven't been paying attention to what I've been saying. And if it's the latter, you still haven't been paying attention. When you're helping to sell a product, whether you're wearing a necktie or a guitar, above all else, you're a pitchman. That's my take. Some people can justify it, and hey, power to you guys! But regardless of how I turn it, I can't. Again, if you can whittle away at the scenario until it takes the shape of something that's comfortable to you, I have no issue with you. Believe me, I'm no armchair totalitarian; I'd actually have to care about your opinions if I wanted them to match my own, and as I've said before, you're free to think and feel however you'd like. Just please don't presume that I can find a similarly comfortable vantage for myself when the reality of the situation is that a) yes, if you can believe it, I actually find this sort of collusion between ad execs and recording artists crass, and a number of songs have been ruined for me across the years by car companies, travel agencies and the like because they've been chopped and channeled and spit in my face half a dozen times a day. In fact, this is one of the main reasons I stopped watching television years ago, right up there with the onslaught of reality programming created to court, ostensibly, fucking idiots with absolutely nothing else to do. What happens when I look at this from a less rigid, sort of hypothetical POV? Not much, really. If Jeff Tweedy were a starving artist, and VW wanted to pay him lots of money to use his song in one of their campaigns - great! I'd be very happy that a talented musician and his family get to eat for a month, but I'd still be terribly disappointed that he had to become an ad man in order for it to happen. I'll always be disappointed when this sort of thing happens. And I'll always grow weary of seeing songs I learned to love as independent entities treated as jingles. Clearly there are people here who don't agree with my position, and that's fine, but there are an equal number of people who would deny me it. It's these chow-heads I have a problem with. (Mods - can I get tag under my name that identifies me as VC's own irascible Harlan Ellison? I'd like that. Thanks.) Link to post Share on other sites
caliber66 Posted May 30, 2007 Share Posted May 30, 2007 You're still applying your principles to Wilco's music. That's fine, but just because they violated one of your principles, doesn't mean they violated one of theirs. Or that your principle is inviolate to anyone but yourself. Link to post Share on other sites
Embarcadero_Skies Posted May 30, 2007 Share Posted May 30, 2007 Bruce and Neil would never lower themselves or their music in this way. Shame on Wilco, for doing so. You are so right, Bruce stays non-commercial by having 30 or so "farewell last show ever" tours and sells tickets for 275 a pop. That's so Indy of him, stick it to the fans. Link to post Share on other sites
Basil II Posted May 30, 2007 Share Posted May 30, 2007 (Mods - can I get tag under my name that identifies me as VC's own irascible Harlan Ellison? I'd like that. Thanks.) Motion seconded!!!!! -Robert. Link to post Share on other sites
TheMaker Posted May 30, 2007 Share Posted May 30, 2007 How many times do I have reword it, Ninjas? Holy fuck. So, what, you're saying I should be okay with it because Tweedy is? Yeah, because it's that simple and that easy, right? Is Tweedy's approval going to make hearing snippets of "The Thanks I Get" in a 30-second car commercial any more enjoyable for the people who hate sitting through that sort of thing? Will it stop me from imagining a giant Wilco-shaped bag of money every time I listen to the song? No, of course it won't. Link to post Share on other sites
intodeep Posted May 30, 2007 Share Posted May 30, 2007 nah, Mike Watt sold out too, he's playing bass on Kelly Clarkson's new album. I was unaware of this and immediatly googled it and damn it is true the sky is truely falling. next neil young will be peddleing viagra with his song will to love Link to post Share on other sites
M. (hristine Posted May 30, 2007 Share Posted May 30, 2007 yeah but tell me where it's actually from....and not from some website clearing house for lofty quotes. I don't know which of his books. He is an environmentalist. You're a good teacher, and I am a good student. Link to post Share on other sites
Good Old Neon Posted May 30, 2007 Author Share Posted May 30, 2007 I'm okay, you're okay! With due respect, I can't meet you in such a liberal arts college Happy Place. It'd sure be nice if I could, but this particular principle of mine is one of the few I consider inviolable. Are you asking me to change my way of thinking with this paragraph, even after I've amply demonstrated that this leopard's spots ain't about to change, or are you simply stating that others are entitled to their take on this scenario? Because if it's the former, you haven't been paying attention to what I've been saying. And if it's the latter, you still haven't been paying attention. When you're helping to sell a product, whether you're wearing a necktie or a guitar, above all else, you're a pitchman. That's my take. Some people can justify it, and hey, power to you guys! But regardless of how I turn it, I can't. Again, if you can whittle away at the scenario until it takes the shape of something that's comfortable to you, I have no issue with you. Believe me, I'm no armchair totalitarian; I'd actually have to care about your opinions if I wanted them to match my own, and as I've said before, you're free to think and feel however you'd like. Just please don't presume that I can find a similarly comfortable vantage for myself when the reality of the situation is that a) yes, if you can believe it, I actually find this sort of collusion between ad execs and recording artists crass, and a number of songs have been ruined for me across the years by car companies, travel agencies and the like because they've been chopped and channeled and spit in my face half a dozen times a day. In fact, this is one of the main reasons I stopped watching television years ago, right up there with the onslaught of reality programming created to court, ostensibly, fucking idiots with absolutely nothing else to do. What happens when I look at this from a less rigid, sort of hypothetical POV? Not much, really. If Jeff Tweedy were a starving artist, and VW wanted to pay him lots of money to use his song in one of their campaigns - great! I'd be very happy that a talented musician and his family get to eat for a month, but I'd still be terribly disappointed that he had to become an ad man in order for it to happen. I'll always be disappointed when this sort of thing happens. And I'll always grow weary of seeing songs I learned to love as independent entities treated as jingles. Clearly there are people here who don't agree with my position, and that's fine, but there are an equal number of people who would deny me it. It's these chow-heads I have a problem with. (Mods - can I get tag under my name that identifies me as VC's own irascible Harlan Ellison? I'd like that. Thanks.) Very well said. Link to post Share on other sites
caliber66 Posted May 30, 2007 Share Posted May 30, 2007 How many times do I have reword it, Ninjas? Holy fuck. So, what, you're saying I should be okay with it because Tweedy is? Yeah, because it's that simple and that easy, right? Is Tweedy's approval going to make hearing snippets of "The Thanks I Get" in a 30-second car commercial any more enjoyable for the people who hate sitting through that sort of thing? Will it stop me from imagining a giant Wilco-shaped bag of money every time I listen to the song? No, of course it won't.No, you shouldn't be okay with it if you can't be. I simply take exception to you suggesting that others' "take on this scenario" are invalid. Link to post Share on other sites
quarter23cd Posted May 30, 2007 Share Posted May 30, 2007 giant Wilco-shaped bag of moneyDo you guys think this is too long to use as a new screen name? I really like it. Link to post Share on other sites
OOO Posted May 30, 2007 Share Posted May 30, 2007 So, what, you're saying I should be okay with it because Tweedy is? He's saying "selling out" has everything to do with Tweedy's principles, and nothing to do with yours. Link to post Share on other sites
Embarcadero_Skies Posted May 30, 2007 Share Posted May 30, 2007 Do you guys think this is too long to use as a new screen name? I really like it. You should run with it! I aprove. I'll photoshop you a slick avitar to match. Link to post Share on other sites
Spawn's dad Posted May 30, 2007 Share Posted May 30, 2007 The Dali Lama is retiring to teach at NYU or some such thing. In light of that is it any wonder Tweedy's principles are shot to shit? Link to post Share on other sites
Good Old Neon Posted May 30, 2007 Author Share Posted May 30, 2007 I don't know which of his books. He is an environmentalist. You're a good teacher, and I am a good student. Gollum? Link to post Share on other sites
Embarcadero_Skies Posted May 30, 2007 Share Posted May 30, 2007 The Dali Lama is retiring to teach at NYU or some such thing. In light of that is it any wonder Tweedy's principles are shot to shit? Wow animals can speak now? Those NYU kids sure are lucky. My Lama never talked to me. Link to post Share on other sites
Basil II Posted May 30, 2007 Share Posted May 30, 2007 Dali Lahmas can't retire....... -Robert. Link to post Share on other sites
TheMaker Posted May 30, 2007 Share Posted May 30, 2007 He's saying "selling out" has everything to do with Tweedy's principles, and nothing to do with yours. Fair enough. Would that I'd ever accused Tweedy of "selling out," eh? It's not a very incisive term, and it doesn't quite fit what I'm "accusing" him of doing. Which is helping to sell cars by leasing his music. Which... is what he's doing. Link to post Share on other sites
JUDE Posted May 30, 2007 Share Posted May 30, 2007 Dali Lahmas can't retire.......-Robert. So I've got that going for me, which is nice. Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts