More on the "controversy"

[Synthesizer Patel]

for the record, i think that anything that 'joss ackland's spunky backpack' posts should be deemed irrefutable based on the screen name and avatar alone.

 

...well I've been thinking that for years! I will hold you to this though, I never forget.

 

There absolutely need to be better standards across the board. I'm just saying that the Chinese carbon emissions due to industrial production is not necessarily directly correlatable to the amount of carbon emissions that go into producing your average car. Although I suppose if most of the parts in today's cars are made in developing countries with little or no emissions standards, the point is moot.

 

Yeah I agree. My point about China really was how 'production' is where the problem lies, rather than with the 'product'. If the Chinese produce a TV set for an American and the American chooses to a. leave it on all day or b. never turn it on the percentage of the products "carbon footprint" wouldn't differ so much in either case, is my point; because it's the production where the fault lies. So, in the same way, if an Electric car is made alongside a gas-guzzler, then if they are both produced in similar factories, then they will both have almost the same carbon footprint.

 

I think I keep saying the same thing, in slightly different ways here!

 

Anyway, I think we agree on the most part, and that is the main thing.

[Spawn's dad]

Today, the average desktop PC wastes nearly half of its power, and the average server wastes one-third of its power," said Urs H

[OOO]

 

These laptops are less than $100 and are for poor kids in developing countries.

[Good Old Neon]

 

These laptops are less than $100 and are for poor kids in developing countries.

 

How about poor adults in New Hampshire?

[darkstar]

How about poor adults in New Hampshire?

 

 

Hey live FREE or die right?

 

they still have that on the license plates up there?

[tongue-tied]

he plays the tin whistle too, wise ass. and sings badly on some tunes too.

 

spider stacy is literally everyone's second favorite pogue.

 

swear.to.god

 

Spider's my hero, no joke. and i blame Jeff Tweedy for the Pogues selling out.

[LouieB]

Yeah, I get the impression that Shane is the sort of fella who, well, the less cash on hand the better

[plasticeyeball]

Spider's my hero, no joke. and i blame Jeff Tweedy for the Pogues selling out.

 

 

 

See, my point has been made!

[bjorn_skurj]

True enough, but, the government should, could and would step in if the auto manufacturer's lobby did not have a stranglehold on Congress. Our elected officials should step in and make some hard decisions at times, decisions that we may not always like, but, are in our interest - whether the general public is aware or not - they need to start being Leaders.

When is your visa to Fantasyland due to expire?

[bobbob1313]

Well then, I guess you are a troll as well - I mean, you must be, I said so.

 

Try this Ninja, answer four or five seperate posts from different posters while also trying to get some work done - then, come back to me, and tell me how you had time to answer them all - each and every one.

 

You and Earl certainly make a nice little, mutual ass-kissing echo chamber of argument.

 

And Earl, you're an asshole.

 

You've positioned yourself as the champion of this indefensible cause. If you are going to call people out for "ignoring" your posts, then you should damn well expect the same from other people. You aren't going to get any sympathy from anyone that you don't have the time to answer the posts, because nobody is making you do any of this. You came in here guns a'blazing, and you've continued to dig yourself into a hole where you feel like you have to respond. I do think it's kind of funny that you choose to "ignore" the posts that have the most damning information and instead focus on posts that are mostly based on hyperbole and opinion. I suppose those are easier to refute...

 

So, in conclusion, cut the "woe is me" martyr crap. The burden of trying changing our minds and ideas on this falls solely on your shoulders because you have made yourself the spokesman for it all. Nobody is forcing you to be here and post.

 

By the way, I am offended by your "mutual ass-kissing echo chamber" insinuations. Mine and Ninjas relationship goes much further than that.

[Good Old Neon]

You've positioned yourself as the champion of this indefensible cause. If you are going to call people out for "ignoring" your posts, then you should damn well expect the same from other people. You aren't going to get any sympathy from anyone that you don't have the time to answer the posts, because nobody is making you do any of this. You came in here guns a'blazing, and you've continued to dig yourself into a hole where you feel like you have to respond. I do think it's kind of funny that you choose to "ignore" the posts that have the most damning information and instead focus on posts that are mostly based on hyperbole and opinion. I suppose those are easier to refute...

 

So, in conclusion, cut the "woe is me" martyr crap. The burden of trying changing our minds and ideas on this falls solely on your shoulders because you have made yourself the spokesman for it all. Nobody is forcing you to be here and post.

 

By the way, I am offended by your "mutual ass-kissing echo chamber" insinuations. Mine and Ninjas relationship goes much further than that.

 

Just as no one is forcing you to read it. Do you even read what you

[bjorn_skurj]

Senate votes to raise mileage standards to 35 mpg for cars, SUVs

Eds: TOPS with 7 grafs to UPDATE. Moving on general news and financial services.

By H. JOSEF HEBERT

 

news://newsclip.ap.org/d3c7a94e-31dd-494d-...04a@news.ap.org

 

WASHINGTON (AP) - The Senate voted Thursday to require average fuel economy of 35 miles per gallon for new cars, pickup trucks and SUVs by 2020, raising efficiency standards that have not changed significantly for nearly two decades.

 

The fuel economy measure was added to a broad energy bill without a roll call vote even as senators were holding a news conference announcing the compromise.

 

Republicans earlier blocked Democratic efforts to raise oil taxes by $29 billion and use the money to promote renewable fuels and other clean energy programs.

 

Democratic leaders hoped to complete the energy bill Thursday night, but senators close to the auto industry began an effort to derail the entire bill.

 

"We will be continuing to oppose it," said Sen. Carl Levin, D-Mich., "This is not over by any stretch."

 

The legislation for the first time would establish a single fuel economy standard applicable to not only cars, but also SUVs and pickups which currently have to meet less stringent requirement.

 

Fuel efficiency requirements would vary for different classes of vehicles based on weight and size. But manufacturers would be required to meet an overall fleetwide average of 35 mpg.

 

"It closes the SUV loophole," declared Sen. Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif., referring to current requirements that allow much less stringent fuel efficiency standards for SUVs and pickup trucks than for cars. "This is a victory for the American public."

 

The compromise, approved without floor debate, was crafted over several days behind closed doors with the aim of heading off attempts by senators sympathetic to the auto industry to press a less stringent proposal.

 

President Bush, who was in Alabama visiting a nuclear power plant, said Congress must "be realistic" about the energy legislation. The White House opposes having Congress mandate a specific mileage number for auto fuel economy. Bush believes the Transportation Department should be given increased flexibility to set a standard.

 

Automakers are currently required to meet an average of 27.5 mpg for cars and 22.2 mpg for SUVs and small trucks. The car standard has not changed since 1989, though the truck requirements have been increased slightly by the Bush administration.

 

The measure tacked onto the energy bill would require a 35 mpg fleet average _ including SUVs and pickup trucks _ by 2020, and require that automakers make half of their vehicles capable of running on 85 percent ethanol fuel by 2015.

 

The compromise removed a requirement that automakers would have had to meet an additional 4 percent increase per year for 10 years after 2020. The ethanol flex-fuel requirement also would have been three years longer.

 

Automakers had strongly opposed the 4 percent requirement, saying it was not achievable and would have required them to make vehicles with a fleet-wide average of 52 mpg by 2030.

 

"This compromise is a significant step to keeping this legislation moving forward," said Sen. Ted Stevens, R-Alaska.

 

Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., said it was important that some version of the mileage increase be included in the broader energy bill, even if the requirements on automakers were eased a bit under the compromise.

 

Reid said he hoped to have the bill approved by the end of Friday.

 

The auto fuel economy issue has been one of the thorniest facing lawmakers.

 

Auto industry leaders came to Capitol Hill several weeks ago saying they could not meet the kind of fuel use increases being contemplated. Industry executives and car dealers visited Senate offices this week in last minute lobbying and urged senators to approve a less stringent measure.

 

The harsher version would have required cars to meet a 35 mpg standard, and SUVS and pickups 30 mpg by 2025.

 

The debate over auto fuel economy is far from over.

 

In the House, the issue is not resolved. A draft energy bill does not include provisions on auto fuel economy, although Rep. Edward Markey, D-Mass., is expected to try to add one when the legislation comes to the floor in coming weeks.

 

Rep. John Dingell, D-Mich., a longtime protector of auto industry interests, said his House Energy and Commerce Committee will not address the matter until fall as part of global warming legislation.

[bobbob1313]

PM on the way.

[Guest ChooChooCharlie]

Take this next comment with a grain of salt, but the longer this agrument goes on, the more I get the feeling that the serious posters in this thread must have been the presidents of their High School's debate team...

Are you guys continuing this until someone wins? Are you expecting a team of judges to present you with a trophey after they add up the score. Someone has pointed out to me recently that "tone" is everything when posting on an online message board so please remove all sarcasm from what I have just said. I don't wish to riducule anyone and it's certainly not like I think I've got all the answers, as it would be more realistic to say I have none of them, but unless you just really really dig posting in this thread, couldn't you just agree to disagree at this point?

 

We get it

Team One cringes everytime he hears a Wilco tune synced to a VW comerical. He belongs to the camp who hates when a band he loves allows a tune of theirs to advertize a product..He stands firmly on his ideals and plans on continuing to fight the fight of Good vs. Evil, which conflicts the society we live in..

 

Team Two doesn't agree with that logic and wants their favorite band to "spread the word" of their lovely music in any commerical way available to them.They believe these musicains have earned their cred by now, and deserve the easier lifestyle that a little extra cash can afford someone, after years of hard work and generosity..

 

What else is there to say? Again..carry on if this is something you really enjoy..I know from experience what lack of joy can do to a person, but nobody wins..There might be ice cream, but no one is given a glorious trophy at the finish line..

[bobbob1313]

It's a discussion board, dude. We are discussing a topic that at one point had a point, but is since lost. Either way, it's a discussion worth having if only because it's better than discussing Jeff's shoes. Nobody's going to win anything and, obviously, nobody is going to concede defeat, so it's just going to die out eventually.

[Good Old Neon]

Well, I guess things could be worse.....

 

http://www.pitchforkmedia.com/page/news/43...stores-fuck-you

 

"Well, that's the nail in the coffin, then. Just when we were slightly, slightly starting to care about the Smashing Pumpkins again-- what with the release of their long-awaited new album Zeitgeist, and its not-terrible first single, "Tarantula"-- here comes something that makes us more than a bit mellon collie.

 

Billy and company would like you to know that they fully support the extinction of the American independent record store at the hand of large, faceless, little-guy-crushing big boxes. They also support bleeding their fans dry. How? By releasing FOUR different versions of Zeitgeist.

 

Best Buy and Target each get a version with an exclusive bonus track. So does iTunes. Like, a different one for each. Everybody else gets the regular version with no bonus tracks. So if you want all of the bonus tracks, you have to buy an album at Best Buy, an album at Target, and an album at iTunes. (Ooh, the presale iTunes version also comes with an extra set of Smashing Pumpkins covers by the Bravery, the Academy Is..., Panic at the Disco, Test Your Reflex, and +44. Ooh.)

 

Making fans who've been waiting the better part of a decade for new Smashing Pumpkins tunes buy an album several times over is, you know, bullshit. My god, you have to go to Target (and only Target!) to get the version with the title track! That just ain't right." - Pitchforkmedia

[Guest ChooChooCharlie]

It's a discussion board, dude. We are discussing a topic that at one point had a point, but is since lost. Either way, it's a discussion worth having if only because it's better than discussing Jeff's shoes. Nobody's going to win anything and, obviously, nobody is going to concede defeat, so it's just going to die out eventually.

 

Fair enough...Carry on then..

[boywiththorninside]

You've to get let people have it out. Let them speak their minds. As has been pointed out, no one is forced to read these posts against their will. I didn't like the ads and still have misgivings about them, but posting here and seeing what others had to say allowed me to put the whole thing in perspective.

 

That said, if this baby reaches 100 pages, it is no longer a thread. It is a blood sport.

 

[caliber66]

KU-MI-TE

KU-MI-TE

KU-MI-TE

[j4lackey]

Do you even read what you

[Guest ChooChooCharlie/Andrea]

Oy Vey..Here we go again...

[caliber66]

I was going to post in Sue's 62 page opus, but seeing as it hadn't been posted in today and was on the second page of the JAF forum, I decided to let sleeping dots dogs sleep.

I was trying to think of a good reason to resurrect this beast, and I still don't have one.

 

But it's not on page 2 anymore, so post away.

[embiggen]

stop discussing this right.........

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

NOW!

[bjorn_skurj]

You couldn't help it, could you?

[Spawn's dad]

I think the relevant argument at the moment is if this is 'Sue's thread' or part of a greater intellectual property.