The Dark Knight

[stooka]

I liked The Joker scenes.

 

 

The rest was kinda.......you know, what Đ

[markosis]

I thought the whole boat sequence lacked any tension whatsoever. People on both boats were way too calm. I felt for that to be the Joker's final act - was a big letdown. When they finally got to Two Face and Gordon's family, I was muttering "don't care, don't care, don't care..."

 

My sentiments exactly. The last 30 minutes of the movie were just so underwhelming.

 

overly convoluted plotting

 

I believe I used those exact words myself.

[bobbob1313]

So I'm watching it again, and I don't see the problems. Ledger alone makes it worth the price of admission.

[HungryHippo]

Spoiler don't read if you still haven't seen the film...

 

 

You kind of have to wonder if, since the Joker does not die, they intended to bring him into the next film to finish some things. It seemed, and maybe this is just wishful thinking because the end kind of sucked (I can't decide how I feel about it), that the Joker probably still had some tricks up his sleeve.

 

I agree with this. It made me wonder if they did, in fact, finish filming this film before Ledger's death. The last scene w/ Joker was so anti-climatic I actually waited in the theatre for the credits to finish to see what, if anything, else happened. Don't get me wrong, still loved the movie and plan to see it again next weekend, the ending just kind of flopped.

[augurus]

SPOILER WARNING

 

I thought the whole boat sequence lacked any tension whatsoever. People on both boats were way too calm. I felt for that to be the Joker's final act - was a big letdown. When they finally got to Two Face and Gordon's family, I was muttering "don't care, don't care, don't care..."

So you expect everyone in that situation to panic instead when threatened?

The Joker not only threatens with death, but asks about the morals of everyday citizens after mercilessly killing high ranking civil servants. You are absolutely right: every Gotham citizen is mindless and easily terrified. If anything, these citizens were mortified and distraught. The Joker's final act delivered a climax very similar to the end of the Killing Joke. Sure, not a fight, but a very haunting ending and climax about the philosophies of both parties as they finally exchange their heated arguments over society.

 

[quote name='Đ

[Winston Legthigh]

SPOILER WARNING

 

 

So you expect everyone in that situation to panic instead when threatened?

Everyone? no. But I would expect there would be at least ONE person on each boat screaming "GIVE ME THAT FUCKING BUTTON!!" Odds would indicate there would be at least one "Driver" personality that deemed a vote unnecessary.

 

I seriously doubt that both of you paid any attention to the movie.

 

You mean there wasn't a boat sequence?

[explodo]

SPOILERRRRRRRR, SPOILLLERRR

SPOILER WARNING

 

So you expect everyone in that situation to panic instead when threatened?

The Joker not only threatens with death, but asks about the morals of everyday citizens after mercilessly killing high ranking civil servants. You are absolutely right: every Gotham citizen is mindless and easily terrified. If anything, these citizens were mortified and distraught. The Joker's final act delivered a climax very similar to the end of the Killing Joke. Sure, not a fight, but a very haunting ending and climax about the philosophies of both parties as they finally exchange their heated arguments over society.

 

I think you are missing the point. I don't think you need to expect everybody on the boat to go out of their mind screaming and fighting and jumping out the window (which, by the way, everybody had an hour to do and nobody did it). The problem here is that it was unrealistic. The people showed more fear and panic trying to escape from the city than they did once they sat on the boat and were told they were going to die. Somebody, or a handful of people, would have taken charge and blown the other boat up. Instead they all sit idly by and calmly stuff their vote into a hat to kill their last minutes of life. And this isn't even mentioning the poorly acted awful dialogue in those scenes, "You know, they are arguing about this same thing on the other boat." Give me a break.

[solace]

unrealistic? in a superhero movie? you don't say.

 

methinks people take films based on comic books a bit too literally/seriously, this isn't fucking Citizen Kane

[explodo]

unrealistic? in a superhero movie? you don't say.

 

methinks people take films based on comic books a bit too literally/seriously, this isn't fucking Citizen Kane

I understand that any comic book movie is unrealistic, but the part that typically should not be unrealistic, the reaction of the world surrounding whatever is going on, fails, in the last section of the film, to be convincing. You can only suspend so much disbelief, and the citizens sitting around twiddling thumbs crosses that gap for me. The movie lives or dies on the premise that it is real, that causes have effects and consequences. That's the whole point. If it wasn't, I wouldn't give a shit about anything that happened and either would you.

[augurus]

I understand that any comic book movie is unrealistic, but the part that typically should not be unrealistic, the reaction of the world surrounding whatever is going on, fails, in the last section of the film, to be convincing. You can only suspend so much disbelief, and the citizens sitting around twiddling thumbs crosses that gap for me. The movie lives or dies on the premise that it is real, that causes have effects and consequences. That's the whole point. If it wasn't, I wouldn't give a shit about anything that happened and either would you.

It's a graphic novel, not comic book (a common and major problem amongst most viewers).

 

A lot of directors would have made everyone panic during the ferry exchange. And you know what, that is expected. Nolan chooses to give the people of Gotham credit. However, because your expectation of Gotham citizens differs from Nolan's plot, you're going to call him out on a different effect and consequence? Again, the citizens on those ferries contemplated, which (coughs) parallels the dilemmas that Batman and Dent must make. A small panic ensued as soon as the Joker announced. Following that, the citizens thought about their actions as they sat trapped, mortified, and distraught. I don't see these citizens twiddling their thumbs. They're sitting there overwhelmed in the turmoil and burden of each other's lives. If that world exists, then the consequence of Joker's actions have burdened the citizens under turmoil.

 

The movie lives or dies by persuading viewers with an important idea/moral/etc. You may then transfer these ideas into the real world.

Welcome to science fiction.

[explodo]

Nolan uses the non-panic as a plot device to end his movie. It is cheap and pretty lame, and the characters on the boat aren't consistent with what we've seen in the last two hours. That is my point.

[aricandover]

It's a graphic novel, not comic book (a common and major problem amongst most viewers).

 

no, it's a comic book. there is no source material used in any of these Batman films that comes from a graphic novel.

[augurus]

no, it's a comic book. there is no source material used in any of these Batman films that comes from a graphic novel.

Sure, no source material comes from the graphic novel, but The Long Halloween heavily influenced the Dark Knight's storyline.

And a graphic novel is a type of comic book: I have been mistaken.

 

Nolan uses the non-panic as a plot device to end his movie. It is cheap and pretty lame, and the characters on the boat aren't consistent with what we've seen in the last two hours. That is my point.

Now you're just throwing words into the air. You've gotta clarify.

[explodo]

Now you're just throwing words into the air. You've gotta clarify.

I don't understand what there is to clarify. I liked/loved the movie, but think that a particular scene, as detailed above (both which scene and why), didn't work.

[solace]

Nolan uses the non-panic as a plot device to end his movie. It is cheap and pretty lame, and the characters on the boat aren't consistent with what we've seen in the last two hours. That is my point.

 

you've apparently missed a HUGE point of the film Daniel, in that the storyline was to prove that the people of Gotham City are inherently good down to their core, that was pretty obvious to me by the end of the film, and the boat scene only solidfied it. it wasn't about being realistic, it was about being altruistic.

[aricandover]

Sure, no source material comes from the graphic novel, but The Long Halloween heavily influenced the Dark Knight's storyline.

And a graphic novel is a type of comic book: I have been mistaken.

 

 

right, and the Long Halloween was originally printed as single issue comic books, and later reprinted as a trade paperback.

 

in your earlier post, you said, "It's a graphic novel, not comic book (a common and major problem amongst most viewers)." as if comic book, was a dirty word and graphic novel was some higher form of entertainment. the bottom line is, it doesn't matter if it's 4 pages or 400, they're all comic books.

[explodo]

you've apparently missed a HUGE point of the film Daniel, in that the storyline was to prove that the people of Gotham City are inherently good down to their core, that was pretty obvious to me by the end of the film, and the boat scene only solidfied it. it wasn't about being realistic, it was about being altruistic.

I'm not a moron. I got that, obviously. It just seemed like a cheap and unrealistic way for Nolan to show it. It was like the end of Ghostbusters 2 where all of the New Yorkers have to sing and be merry to break the slime off the museum. If Nolan was going to use this ending and make it work, he needed to at least hint at throughout the film and he didn't.

 

For instance, (SPOILER) when the Joker announces that everybody needs to leave the city by nightfall if they want to escape his wrath, people freak. Where were those reactions when the Joker later tells people they're going to die? They should be at the very least the same, but more likely, enhanced. Instead they sit around and vote, poorly speaking crappy dialogue about how dire the situation is in the least believable tones. At other points, people say they want the Batman dead or jailed, like when he offers to turn himself in and they hold that press conference where Harvey Dent surrenders. He spends two hours building on the idea that the only good people in all of Gotham are Batman, Gordon, Fox, Alfred and to a certain extent, Harvey Dent (despite the obvious flaws that keep us from believing he is truly in the same category as the first two). So when it gets to the end and all of the sudden everybody we're seeing is good, it doesn't make any sense. They spend so much time showing crooked cops, mob bosses, mental patients, corrupt employees, etc. How do they all become good instantaneously?

[augurus]

I'm not a moron. I got that, obviously. It just seemed like a cheap and unrealistic way for Nolan to show it. It was like the end of Ghostbusters 2 where all of the New Yorkers have to sing and be merry to break the slime off the museum. If Nolan was going to use this ending and make it work, he needed to at least hint at throughout the film and he didn't.

 

For instance, (SPOILER) when the Joker announces that everybody needs to leave the city by nightfall if they want to escape his wrath, people freak. Where were those reactions when the Joker later tells people they're going to die? They should be at the very least the same, but more likely, enhanced. Instead they sit around and vote, poorly speaking crappy dialogue about how dire the situation is in the least believable tones. At other points, people say they want the Batman dead or jailed, like when he offers to turn himself in and they hold that press conference where Harvey Dent surrenders. He spends two hours building on the idea that the only good people in all of Gotham are Batman, Gordon, Fox, Alfred and to a certain extent, Harvey Dent (despite the obvious flaws that keep us from believing he is truly in the same category as the first two). So when it gets to the end and all of the sudden everybody we're seeing is good, it doesn't make any sense. They spend so much time showing crooked cops, mob bosses, mental patients, corrupt employees, etc. How do they all become good instantaneously?

If you want to keep talking about one-dimensional consistency in characters, then, of course your rationalization will work for you. They might be criminals, but they still have morals and principles. It's that type of one-dimensional thinking that leads to people screaming on that ferry.

[Sweet Papa Crimbo]

Spectacular.

Also, Jack Nicholson is no longer the best Joker.

 

 

[Spawn's dad]

I suppose I generally don't expect much from superhero movies (or action flicks in general) so this turned

out way better than I expected.

[Mrs. Peel]

The pencil trick was worth my money all by itself. I thought the movie was fantastic. I had been looking forward to it for such a long time that I was kind of expecting it to disappoint, just because of my high expectations. I also was skeptical of the media's buzz about Ledger being nominated for an Oscar for playing a comic book (graphic novel?) villain. But he certainly deserves one. He was really incredible.

[NightOfJoy]

In yesterday's Chicago Tribune, there were a couple pictures of grown men...........who were waiting to see the film, dressed as the Joker. How empty could one's life be to do that? Sad, hilarious and pathetic......all at the same time.

[Guest Jules]

Unless this is some sort of contrarian experiment, I don't see why you would actively avoid and degrade the two most critically acclaimed movies of the year. Seems odd.

One's a cartoon, the other is based on a comic book, or something.

 

I prefer romantic comedies.

[solace]

In yesterday's Chicago Tribune, there were a couple pictures of grown men...........who were waiting to see the film, dressed as the Joker. How empty could one's life be to do that? Sad, hilarious and pathetic......all at the same time.

 

ah yes, because as everyone knows, there's just a certain age in which everyone should stop having fun or being goofy/nerdy and only act prim and proper 24/7

[giraffo]

Jack Nicholson isn't better than anyone at anything. Even acting for that matter. One of the worst things ever to happen to comics was the asinine Tim Burton Batman films.