New new election thread

[Central Scrutinizer]

Warren doesn't keep any of the money from his books

 

But the "Purpose Driven Life Golf Wipe" and "Purpose Driven Life Martini Shaker" are a different story ...

 

Why is this not "his" crowd? Aren't they both christians?

Well there's christians and there's Christian

[mfwahl]

Why is this not "his" crowd? Aren't they both christians?

 

New York Times:

Mr. McCain received the more rousing response from the audience, made up largely of church members here in

Orange County, one of the most conservative areas in the country.

 

Only four Democrats have carried the county in a statewide race in the past 50 years

[Dreamin']

And Obama is taking some seriously unfair heat for his quip that deciding when a "baby" first has rights is above his pay grade. The standard rebuttal to this on the right has been that, as President of US, no question is above your pay grade. Sweet Moses, how stupid is this country? The President is in charge of governing the nation (if even that), not solving centuries old moral debates. The desire in this country, and maybe the world for all I know, to distill things down into black and white solutions makes me more frustrated than I would like to admit.

To me, it sees so weird that something like this would be televised on a major network. These religious/moral questions do seem a bit outside the scope of what govt. does. ... But maybe not in the US.

 

I have no idea what religion the Prime Minister of Canada belongs to, and I don't care what his greatest moral failure is. I do know that he's an uptight douchebag and I hope he's on his way out.

[bjorn_skurj]

To me, it sees so weird that something like this would be televised on a major network. These religious/moral questions do seem a bit outside the scope of what govt. does. ... But maybe not in the US.

 

I have no idea what religion the Prime Minister of Canada belongs to, and I don't care what his greatest moral failure is.

I think most of the Puritans ended up in Massachusetts, not New France. Lucky for you guys.

[Dreamin']

I gotta say, the more I see of Obama, the more I like him. He's a bit more conservative than I am, but he seems very thoughtful and authentic.

 

Wishing you good things in November.

 

Let America Be America Again

by Langston Hughes

 

Let America be America again.

Let it be the dream it used to be.

Let it be the pioneer on the plain

Seeking a home where he himself is free.

 

(America never was America to me.)

 

Let America be the dream the dreamers dreamed--

Let it be that great strong land of love

Where never kings connive nor tyrants scheme

That any man be crushed by one above.

 

(It never was America to me.)

 

O, let my land be a land where Liberty

Is crowned with no false patriotic wreath,

But opportunity is real, and life is free,

Equality is in the air we breathe.

 

(There's never been equality for me,

Nor freedom in this "homeland of the free.")

 

Say, who are you that mumbles in the dark?

And who are you that draws your veil across the stars?

 

I am the poor white, fooled and pushed apart,

I am the Negro bearing slavery's scars.

I am the red man driven from the land,

I am the immigrant clutching the hope I seek--

And finding only the same old stupid plan

Of dog eat dog, of mighty crush the weak.

 

I am the young man, full of strength and hope,

Tangled in that ancient endless chain

Of profit, power, gain, of grab the land!

Of grab the gold! Of grab the ways of satisfying need!

Of work the men! Of take the pay!

Of owning everything for one's own greed!

 

I am the farmer, bondsman to the soil.

I am the worker sold to the machine.

I am the Negro, servant to you all.

I am the people, humble, hungry, mean--

Hungry yet today despite the dream.

Beaten yet today--O, Pioneers!

I am the man who never got ahead,

The poorest worker bartered through the years.

 

Yet I'm the one who dreamt our basic dream

In the Old World while still a serf of kings,

Who dreamt a dream so strong, so brave, so true,

That even yet its mighty daring sings

In every brick and stone, in every furrow turned

That's made America the land it has become.

O, I'm the man who sailed those early seas

In search of what I meant to be my home--

For I'm the one who left dark Ireland's shore,

And Poland's plain, and England's grassy lea,

And torn from Black Africa's strand I came

To build a "homeland of the free."

 

The free?

 

Who said the free? Not me?

Surely not me? The millions on relief today?

The millions shot down when we strike?

The millions who have nothing for our pay?

For all the dreams we've dreamed

And all the songs we've sung

And all the hopes we've held

And all the flags we've hung,

The millions who have nothing for our pay--

Except the dream that's almost dead today.

 

O, let America be America again--

The land that never has been yet--

And yet must be--the land where every man is free.

The land that's mine--the poor man's, Indian's, Negro's, ME--

Who made America,

Whose sweat and blood, whose faith and pain,

Whose hand at the foundry, whose plow in the rain,

Must bring back our mighty dream again.

 

Sure, call me any ugly name you choose--

The steel of freedom does not stain.

From those who live like leeches on the people's lives,

We must take back our land again,

America!

 

O, yes,

I say it plain,

America never was America to me,

And yet I swear this oath--

America will be!

 

Out of the rack and ruin of our gangster death,

The rape and rot of graft, and stealth, and lies,

We, the people, must redeem

The land, the mines, the plants, the rivers.

The mountains and the endless plain--

All, all the stretch of these great green states--

And make America again!

[Good Old Neon]

To me, it sees so weird that something like this would be televised on a major network. These religious/moral questions do seem a bit outside the scope of what govt. does. ... But maybe not in the US.

 

I have no idea what religion the Prime Minister of Canada belongs to, and I don't care what his greatest moral failure is. I do know that he's an uptight douchebag and I hope he's on his way out.

 

Could you please email me a Canadian Citizenship Application?

 

Affairs are growing increasingly odd and concerning down here in these United States

[blindgonzo]

To me, it sees so weird that something like this would be televised on a major network. These religious/moral questions do seem a bit outside the scope of what govt. does. ... But maybe not in the US.

 

I have no idea what religion the Prime Minister of Canada belongs to, and I don't care what his greatest moral failure is. I do know that he's an uptight douchebag and I hope he's on his way out.

 

 

i completely agree!

[bobbob1313]

Did someone just use the "I'm moving to Canada" line?

Fuck, that's old.

[uncle wilco]

But the "Purpose Driven Life Golf Wipe" and "Purpose Driven Life Martini Shaker" are a different story ...

 

the "purpose driven life" is not a self-help book, although to an atheist i could see how it's percieved that way. this book has a great message and is a great resource to those of faith. it has had a great influence on me personally.

 

rick warren is as human and imperfect as anyone. i put no individual on a pedestal, rick warren included. he was inspired to write a great book. hopefully, he will be inspired to to other things as impactful as that in the future, or maybe it will be someone else.

 

that being said, i don't like the ridiculous marketing and offshoot merchandise the book has generated. i don't care for the celebrity and personal fame rick has attained as a result either. but, that's something he has to answer for, not me. however, i will never deny that the book he was inspired to write is an insightful read and applicable to daily life. regardless of what path rick takes in life, the value of his book will never change for me.

 

people can't seem to seperate the message in the book from the messenger. usually, it's those people who've never taken the time to read the book. 'cause if you did...you might get some on ya. most people don't like books that don't paint the reader as the center of the universe. this is one of those books. humility makes you a better person. i would hope mr. warren keeps that in mind.

[explodo]

To me, it sees so weird that something like this would be televised on a major network. These religious/moral questions do seem a bit outside the scope of what govt. does. ...

Very weird to me, too, but I guess I had move or get used to it. The first major pseudo "debate" between the two is led by a pastor and held in a mega church? The fact that they both feel compelled to actually bother showing up here is telling, to say the least.

[uncool2pillow]

Did someone just use the "I'm moving to Canada" line?

Fuck, that's old.

Many moons ago I was in a band that did a song called "Pat Robertson". The chorus included the following:

 

"Pat Robertson's running for president

People say he's gonna win

If he does I'm movin' to Canada

Takin' a bottle of gin"

[bobbob1313]

I actually like that.

[bleedorange]

Could you please email me a Canadian Citizenship Application?

 

Affairs are growing increasingly odd and concerning down here in these United States

[Good Old Neon]

Did someone just use the "I'm moving to Canada" line?

Fuck, that's old.

 

Yes, an oldie but a goody.

 

And besides, I once fell in love with Nova Scotia, I would love to rekindle that relationship.

[bobbob1313]

You should probably go then.

[Tweedling]

Bravo!

[Edie]

1000 posts for Tweedling

 

I think that if Barack had not shown up, he would have lost an opportunity to communicate to that audience. He is all about communication, even when the audience isn't his "base". You have to give him credit for that.

[Good Old Neon]

You should probably go then.

 

Ok, that settles it, I will.

 

On second thought, can you spot me a few thousand Looney

[bobbob1313]

ZING!

[Central Scrutinizer]

the "purpose driven life" is not a self-help book, although to an atheist i could see how it's percieved that way. this book has a great message and is a great resource to those of faith. it has had a great influence on me personally.

 

rick warren is as human and imperfect as anyone. i put no individual on a pedestal, rick warren included. he was inspired to write a great book. hopefully, he will be inspired to to other things as impactful as that in the future, or maybe it will be someone else.

 

that being said, i don't like the ridiculous marketing and offshoot merchandise the book has generated. i don't care for the celebrity and personal fame rick has attained as a result either. but, that's something he has to answer for, not me. however, i will never deny that the book he was inspired to write is an insightful read and applicable to daily life. regardless of what path rick takes in life, the value of his book will never change for me.

 

people can't seem to seperate the message in the book from the messenger. usually, it's those people who've never taken the time to read the book. 'cause if you did...you might get some on ya. most people don't like books that don't paint the reader as the center of the universe. this is one of those books. humility makes you a better person. i would hope mr. warren keeps that in mind.

I am a Christian. I've read the book, participated in a study regarding it. It's a nice read but hardly of any depth.

 

It IS marketed as a self-help book; it uses many self-help techniques. It does not offer anything new in terms of study; it borrows quite liberally for pre-existing studies and books that are as altruistic as you put it.

 

The Purpose Driven Life is, instead, marketed and packaged. It is a McChurch approach to bible study. It certainly doesn't promote further study; instead it's often pitched to those who go through the 40 days get a diploma from any further consideration.

 

The message and the messenger should be viewed together. In a sense, I have more problems with Rick Warren than, say, Dr. Phil because each are basically doing the same thing: using their position as a person of authority in order to market themselves as a franchise. Using faith as a selling point seems a bit more predatory to me.

[bobbob1313]

Message and messenger should be viewed seperately 90% of the time. Lots of assholes have said good, worthwhile things.

[Sir Stewart]

Message and messenger should be viewed seperately 90% of the time. Lots of assholes have said good, worthwhile things.

Good, worthwhile point.

[bobbob1313]

See?

[Central Scrutinizer]

Message and messenger should be viewed seperately 90% of the time. Lots of assholes have said good, worthwhile things.

That's funny, but those good, worthwhile things are not necessarily the prupose of the messenger's message.

 

The messenger measures his audience, his purpose and desired effect in communicating his message. He has an axe to grind, an idea to extol, $ to be made, etc. The message and the messenger are entwined. It's the feedback that is separate, and often unexpected, and often where the good, worthwhile things are discerned.

[bobbob1313]

If someone says something good and worthwhile, who cares about why he says that?

 

For instance, if I read his book, and it helps me or fulfills me in some way, why should I care what he does with the book or what his aim for the book was?