Good Old Neon Posted August 29, 2008 Share Posted August 29, 2008 Meh - it rang like the thousands of political speeches that have proceeded it - big on promises, most of which will never be delivered. Free ourselves from foreign oil within ten years? Hmmmm....unless we've found a way to grow the stuff, how is that even remotely possible? Link to post Share on other sites
Gobias Industries Posted August 29, 2008 Share Posted August 29, 2008 Meh - it rang like the thousands of political speeches that have proceeded it - big on promises, most of which will never be delivered. Free ourselves from foreign oil within ten years? Hmmmm....unless we've found a way to grow the stuff, how is that even remotely possible? Easy. Well, easy in the sense that it's only two steps, but it'll be a pain in the ass to do (at least #1), so it's not quite easy. 1. Eliminate the sugar trust/lobby.2. Use the cane sugar to make biofuel, like Brazil already does. I've brought it up time in time again... Link to post Share on other sites
Lammycat Posted August 29, 2008 Share Posted August 29, 2008 Meh - it rang like the thousands of political speeches that have proceeded it - big on promises, most of which will never be delivered. Free ourselves from foreign oil within ten years? Hmmmm....unless we've found a way to grow the stuff, how is that even remotely possible?What political speech doesn't? Take it for what it is. They're all part of the cog that we need to deal with, like it or not. If you're expecting something different you're fooling yourself. Link to post Share on other sites
Hixter Posted August 29, 2008 Share Posted August 29, 2008 Hmmmm....unless we've found a way to grow the stuff, how is that even remotely possible? They've been making big strides in "growing" petroleum substitutes in algae and other genetically modified plants. It's not completely science fiction. Link to post Share on other sites
Party @ the Moontower Posted August 29, 2008 Share Posted August 29, 2008 Just hear that today? It's not news. Huffington Post, eh? I didn't just hear it today..and there's lots of places this is cited.Need a list? I suspose you like the idea of more war? Did he say this, or did I make it up? Link to post Share on other sites
Hixter Posted August 29, 2008 Share Posted August 29, 2008 2. Use the cane sugar to make biofuel, like Brazil already does. Converting traditional human foodstuffs and crops into ethanol doesn't make much sense when there are starving people and huge amounts of land and fertilizers involved. Converting crop waste and things like algae would be much easier to sustain. Link to post Share on other sites
Party @ the Moontower Posted August 29, 2008 Share Posted August 29, 2008 Sounds like the truth to me, regardless of which party is running the show. It only takes a cursory glance at history to see that it's true. Obama has come out strong about Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iran and Darfur, so the chances of a bloodless presidency are so low as to approach zero. The next president is going to make decisions that will kill people. It's a certainty. Obama's sure to wage useless wars... Link to post Share on other sites
Good Old Neon Posted August 29, 2008 Share Posted August 29, 2008 Easy. Well, easy in the sense that it's only two steps, but it'll be a pain in the ass to do (at least #1), so it's not quite easy. 1. Eliminate the sugar trust/lobby.2. Use the cane sugar to make biofuel, like Brazil already does. I've brought it up time in time again... If within the next ten years, we retrofit our entire energy infrastructure to run on bio-fuels. Either Obama does not understand the enormous scope of the problem, or he Link to post Share on other sites
Party @ the Moontower Posted August 29, 2008 Share Posted August 29, 2008 Easy. Well, easy in the sense that it's only two steps, but it'll be a pain in the ass to do (at least #1), so it's not quite easy. 1. Eliminate the sugar trust/lobby.2. Use the cane sugar to make biofuel, like Brazil already does. I've brought it up time in time again... Hemphttp://www.hemp4fuel.com/ Link to post Share on other sites
Atticus Posted August 29, 2008 Share Posted August 29, 2008 optimism is not contagious Link to post Share on other sites
Hixter Posted August 29, 2008 Share Posted August 29, 2008 Obama's sure to wage useless wars... Obama's sure to wage war(s). It'll be up to you to decide whether they are useless or not. History shows that there are usually 2 equally divided sides to every war and one man's useless war is another man's war of liberation, defense and/or necessity. Link to post Share on other sites
Party @ the Moontower Posted August 29, 2008 Share Posted August 29, 2008 one man's useless war is another man's war of liberation, defense and/or necessity. like Iraq I suspose? Link to post Share on other sites
Gobias Industries Posted August 29, 2008 Share Posted August 29, 2008 Converting traditional human foodstuffs and crops into ethanol doesn't make much sense when there are starving people and huge amounts of land and fertilizers involved. Converting crop waste and things like algae would be much easier to sustain. Sugar yields the best stuff:gas ratio out of all of them...I'm pretty sure nothing is particularly close. Besides, depleting algae sounds like the least sustainable thing ever. You're going to clean out the entire food chain if you go for algae, and if you're bioengineering the stuff you're not going to be able to placate the demand. While in the long term algae may turn out to be viable, sugar is the best option right now. If within the next ten years, we retrofit our entire energy infrastructure to run on bio-fuels. Either Obama does not understand the enormous scope of the problem, or he’s being disingenuous, unfortunately, the answer to either question is not a good one. The entirety of Brazil probably uses less energy than the state of New York alone. Baby steps, man. We can probably fix the majority of cars to use biofuels within ten years if we start immediately, that'll cut a good chunk of foreign oil. Next can be the rest of the industries. I'm not saying that it's going to happen in presto, but if we see progress then it's foolish to axe it because it won't make the "timeline." Link to post Share on other sites
Atticus Posted August 29, 2008 Share Posted August 29, 2008 I was really going to take a stab at this thread but then I remembered to learn from the past. some of you can focus on such selfish minutia. but that is youth. Link to post Share on other sites
Hixter Posted August 29, 2008 Share Posted August 29, 2008 like Iraq I suspose? Like every war. Obama didn't exactly sound like a man promising a war-free presidency tonight: "I will end this war in Iraq responsibly, and finish the fight against al Qaeda and the Taliban in Afghanistan. I will rebuild our military to meet future conflicts. But I will also renew the tough, direct diplomacy that can prevent Iran from obtaining nuclear weapons and curb Russian aggression." If elected, he's going to kill people. And there will be plenty of discussion about whether it was right or wrong. That's simply how the world works. Link to post Share on other sites
austrya Posted August 29, 2008 Share Posted August 29, 2008 Obama's got some cute kids. That's all I feel like adding at this point. Link to post Share on other sites
Lammycat Posted August 29, 2008 Share Posted August 29, 2008 If elected, he's going to kill people. And there will be plenty of discussion about whether it was right or wrong. That's simply how the world works.Do you mean to say that whomever is elected that the war will not end immediately or that he will be responsible for sparking more war? Link to post Share on other sites
Hixter Posted August 29, 2008 Share Posted August 29, 2008 Sugar yields the best stuff:gas ratio out of all of them...I'm pretty sure nothing is particularly close. Besides, depleting algae sounds like the least sustainable thing ever. You're going to clean out the entire food chain if you go for algae, and if you're bioengineering the stuff you're not going to be able to placate the demand. While in the long term algae may turn out to be viable, sugar is the best option right now. They're not talking about algae that's floating around in the lakes and rivers, rather large-scale farmed ponds using algae that's been genetically modified to produce oil. Ever seen a sugar cane plantation? I have. How much sugar do you think you get from that huge, bamboo-like stem? And how much work and land does it take to produce it? Massive burn offs, destruction of the Everglades' ecosystem - we're be much better growing this stuff in some slimy ponds in the middle of nowhere. And we need new nuke plants, too. Lots of them. Link to post Share on other sites
Edie Posted August 29, 2008 Share Posted August 29, 2008 I thought the speech was absolutely terrific. I think he not only hit, he hit it out of the park. Link to post Share on other sites
Lammycat Posted August 29, 2008 Share Posted August 29, 2008 I thought the speech was absolutely terrific. I think he not only hit, he hit it out of the park.As much as I dislike the entire process, I yet again agree with you. Link to post Share on other sites
Hixter Posted August 29, 2008 Share Posted August 29, 2008 Do you mean to say that whomever is elected that the war will not end immediately or that he will be responsible for sparking more war? The war in Iraq is winding down, but could flare again. Afghanistan will take several more years of fighting (keep an eye on Michael Yon's excellent reporting, he's just arrived in country) and Obama's been talking tough about places like Darfur, Russia and Iran. Any of them can - and might - lead to bloody conflict involving U.S. troops. And the battle against terrorists is going to last for our lifetime. Much blood will be shed and there will always be someone who questions whether it was necessary. It's the president's job to make those tough choices. Link to post Share on other sites
Lammycat Posted August 29, 2008 Share Posted August 29, 2008 So whomever takes office will be to blame..... Link to post Share on other sites
Edie Posted August 29, 2008 Share Posted August 29, 2008 People are hoping for a leader that can be trusted to follow. This guy can be. "Now is not the time for small plans." Link to post Share on other sites
Hixter Posted August 29, 2008 Share Posted August 29, 2008 So whomever takes office will be to blame..... The person who finds himself in office will find that the world can be an ugly place and he will have to make very difficult decisions which will result in the deaths of many people. And a lot of people will be screaming at him for making those decisions. Just read this and laughed: Asked to hint which way he is leaning, McCain turned Link to post Share on other sites
Lammycat Posted August 29, 2008 Share Posted August 29, 2008 The person who finds himself in office will find that the world can be an ugly place and he will have to make very difficult decisions which will result in the deaths of many people. And a lot of people will be screaming at him for making those decisions.Of course. This resonates for anyone who is elected. Point being? Link to post Share on other sites
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