8th election thread

[Party @ the Moontower]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/05/n...t_n_124256.html

 

 

McCain aide sees no reason why Sarah Palin should have to answer reporters' queries:

 

According to Nicole Wallace of the McCain campaign, the American people don't care whether Sarah Palin can answer specific questions about foreign and domestic policy. According to Wallace -- in an appearance I did with her this morning on Joe Scarborough's show -- the American people will learn all they need to know (and all they deserve to know) from Palin's scripted speeches and choreographed appearances on the campaign trail and in campaign ads.

 

 

and this little gem ... "So Sambo beat the bitch"

 

 

I think this is such BS with a capital BS topped with a handfull of BS! How is a chick that majored in journalism with an emphasis in broadcast news & went to 5 colleges in 6 years before graduating from the University of Idaho in 1987, going to go up against Biden. Better be a damn quick study, or write a sweet cheat sheet on her ass.

[Gobias Industries]

What a bitch. Just had to say it.

[Party @ the Moontower]

What a bitch. Just had to say it.

 

 

can that be on the back of the t-shirts? I want one. I just ordered this on cafe press

http://www.cafepress.com/cp/viewcart.aspx?s=search

 

Obama has Poon Power!

[fatheadfred]

I don't care about this shit anymore. I am voting for Obama. Time to get local. Peace.

[Analogman]

I don't care about this shit anymore. I am voting for Obama. Time to get local. Peace.

 

And the men who hold high places

Must be the ones to start

To mould a new reality

Closer to the Heart

 

The Blacksmith and the Artist

Reflect it in their art

Forge their creativity

Closer to the Heart

 

Philosophers and Ploughmen

Each must know his part

To sow a new mentality

Closer to the Heart

 

You can be the Captain

I will draw the Chart

Sailing into destiny

Closer to the Heart

[LouieB]

Is anyone still undecided after all these months? I am just amazed that people are not sure who to vote for.

 

Of course Sarah Palin does add something for the Republicans, an actual right wing, evangelical, backward thinking woman who is also the epitome of the late 20th century female liberal ideal. Strange days indeed.....

 

LouieB

[H-Bomb Henry]

can that be on the back of the t-shirts? I want one. I just ordered this on cafe press

http://www.cafepress.com/cp/viewcart.aspx?s=search

 

Obama has Poon Power!

 

I saw that one the other day. If I had the money I would buy it.

[sweetheart-mine]

And the men who hold high places

Must be the ones to start

To mould a new reality

Closer to the Heart

 

The Blacksmith and the Artist

Reflect it in their art

Forge their creativity

Closer to the Heart

 

Philosophers and Ploughmen

Each must know his part

To sow a new mentality

Closer to the Heart

 

You can be the Captain

I will draw the Chart

Sailing into destiny

Closer to the Heart

 

this is very beautiful. (had to look it up, i've never heard them.)

 

the past week has been very hard; it must have hit hardest in the night, because this morning my own heart was so heavy that i couldn't get up.

for a long time. but obviously i finally did, to find this beautiful thing. what a great reward, and to keep.

 

thank you so much for posting it.

[tommyjacobs]

Is anyone still undecided after all these months? I am just amazed that people are not sure who to vote for.

LouieB

I am. I was planning on voting for McCain, but the Palin selection has me rethinking it. I don't think I can bring myself to vote for Obama because of his economic policies. I then thought about voting Libertarian, but they nominated Bob Barr this year. No way in hell I'm voting for him with his track record.

 

Which leaves me undecided. I may end up holding my nose and voting for McCain anyway, but I won't feel good about it.

 

Regarding the balance between socialism and capitalism, I think that there is important role to be played by the government by investing in infrastructure, education, and basic research that will drive future economic growth. Regulations to prevent collusion and such are important, as well as making sure that investors and consumers are able to trust the businesses with which they deal (e.g., contract law, securities regulation, etc.).

 

However, I do take issue with the sort of socialism that punishes those who are successful in the name of wealth redistribution, a recent example being the proposed windfall taxes on oil companies.

 

I also think we should do away with government handouts. I have no problem with the government ensuring that people do not starve, but anyone receiving welfare checks should have to work for it or be in a training program that will enable them to support themselves (with some modifications for those mentally or physically limited). It's not about whether we should or should not help, but how we should go about it.

 

Socialist policies should be used to enable, not as an end unto themselves. They should enable competition and creativity, not place a damper on it. Government should enable the personal growth of citizens, not create additional dependencies.

[mountain bed]

And the men who hold high places

Must be the ones to start

To mould a new reality

Closer to the Heart

 

The Blacksmith and the Artist

Reflect it in their art

Forge their creativity

Closer to the Heart

 

Philosophers and Ploughmen

Each must know his part

To sow a new mentality

Closer to the Heart

 

You can be the Captain

I will draw the Chart

Sailing into destiny

Closer to the Heart

Nice call man. I was thinking about this song the other day, and thought of posting it in the "One Song" thread but it works even better here.

[auctioneer69]

I am. I was planning on voting for McCain, but the Palin selection has me rethinking it. I don't think I can bring myself to vote for Obama because of his economic policies. I then thought about voting Libertarian, but they nominated Bob Barr this year. No way in hell I'm voting for him with his track record.

 

Which leaves me undecided. I may end up holding my nose and voting for McCain anyway, but I won't feel good about it.

 

Regarding the balance between socialism and capitalism, I think that there is important role to be played by the government by investing in infrastructure, education, and basic research that will drive future economic growth. Regulations to prevent collusion and such are important, as well as making sure that investors and consumers are able to trust the businesses with which they deal (e.g., contract law, securities regulation, etc.).

 

However, I do take issue with the sort of socialism that punishes those who are successful in the name of wealth redistribution, a recent example being the proposed windfall taxes on oil companies.

 

I also think we should do away with government handouts. I have no problem with the government ensuring that people do not starve, but anyone receiving welfare checks should have to work for it or be in a training program that will enable them to support themselves (with some modifications for those mentally or physically limited). It's not about whether we should or should not help, but how we should go about it.

 

Socialist policies should be used to enable, not as an end unto themselves. They should enable competition and creativity, not place a damper on it. Government should enable the personal growth of citizens, not create additional dependencies.

 

 

Well if you don't like windfall taxes how can you vote for a ticket with Palin? Part of the reason that she could afford to give every Alaskan $1200 next week is that when she came to power she pushed through a new regime of taxes on oil companies there that raised the state's take on oil revenues to an exorbitant level for every dollar that the price of oil exceeds pre-set amounts.

 

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/loca...laskatax07.html

 

The real reason I can't vote for Republicans is that as someone who is fiscally conservative but socially liberal I refuse to vote for a party which has been taken over by the religious right. The truly scary thing about the convention was that people only got truly excited by the appearance of someone on the ticket who would propose not to allow even those who had been raped to get an abortion and who is on record as telling students that the war in Iraq is God's war. It's ironic that the Republican Part which loves the war on Religious extremists is populated by people who if they had their druthers would make religion as the defining issue on their use of power.

[Beltmann]

The real reason I can't vote for Republicans is that as someone who is fiscally conservative but socially liberal I refuse to vote for a party which has been taken over by the religious right.

That's how I feel. At this point, it's fair to suggest that the GOP is a religious organization.

[ikol]

And the men who hold high places

Must be the ones to start

To mould a new reality

Closer to the Heart

 

The Blacksmith and the Artist

Reflect it in their art

Forge their creativity

Closer to the Heart

 

Philosophers and Ploughmen

Each must know his part

To sow a new mentality

Closer to the Heart

 

You can be the Captain

I will draw the Chart

Sailing into destiny

Closer to the Heart

 

There is unrest in the Forest

There is trouble with the trees

For the Maples want more sunligh

And the Oaks ignore their pleas

 

The trouble with the Maples

(And they're quite convinced they're right)

They say the Oaks are just too lofty

And they grab up all the light

But the Oaks can't help their feelings

If they like the way they're made

And they wonder why the Maples

Can't be happy in their shade?

 

There is trouble in the forest

And the creatures all have fled

As the Maples scream `Oppression!`

And the Oaks, just shake their heads

 

So the Maples formed a Union

And demanded equal rights

'The Oaks are just too greedy

We will make them give us light'

Now there's no more Oak oppression

For they passed a noble law

And the trees are all kept equal

By hatchet,

Axe,

And saw

[Analogman]

Not bad.

[tommyjacobs]

Well if you don't like windfall taxes how can you vote for a ticket with Palin?

 

I think you misunderstood me. I was going to vote for McCain, but now I'm not sure I want to with Palin as VP. She is unqualified and I don't care for her politics as much as McCain's.

 

One of the primary reasons I consider myself an independent and not a Republican is because of the influence of the Religious Right in the party. I'm an atheist myself, and I support a secular government. However, I also have serious issues with the Democratic party, which leaves me without any party loyalty.

[Panther]

is the republican party reallly getting away with were the real change message? I mean how can the media allow them to talk about taking on washington its a joke.

You do all realize that the same people who ran Bush's campaing are behind McCain and that is but a simple truth. Palin is an extremist and an opportunist she knows not what she speaks.

 

So how is McaCains experience of being tortured and brainwashed for five years a benifit ?

if anything it explains how he's been walking around in a daze for the last 30 years.

 

Insanity I say. Vote Obama why not if hes the antichrist then he desrvees it we might aswell get this hole earth thing over with(joking)

[IRememberDBoon]

I think you misunderstood me. I was going to vote for McCain, but now I'm not sure I want to with Palin as VP. She is unqualified and I don't care for her politics as much as McCain's.

 

One of the primary reasons I consider myself an independent and not a Republican is because of the influence of the Religious Right in the party. I'm an atheist myself, and I support a secular government. However, I also have serious issues with the Democratic party, which leaves me without any party loyalty.

 

didnt like the economy under President Clinton??

[tommyjacobs]

didnt like the economy under President Clinton??

Clinton was closer to the center than Obama, and he had a conservative Congress. Greenspan had a larger effect on the economy than Clinton, though I think in retrospect a lot of the perceived growth was an illusion caused by rampant speculation.

 

If you give Clinton credit for the economic growth, you have to give him blame for when it went bust too.

[Central Scrutinizer]

Clinton was closer to the center than Obama, and he had a conservative Congress. Greenspan had a larger effect on the economy than Clinton, though I think in retrospect a lot of the perceived growth was an illusion caused by rampant speculation.

 

If you give Clinton credit for the economic growth, you have to give him blame for when it went bust too.

You'll have to explain that one ...

 

First you credit Congress and Greenspan for the success, but then you try to tie Clinton in when the economy went bust two years after he left office.

 

Who, then is responsible for this "rampant speculation"? Isn't it the same ones who made out well enough to live high and well the last eight years and help bankroll Bush II, Bush III (and Bush IV coming to a polling place near you ...)?

[Hixter]

but then you try to tie Clinton in when the economy went bust two years after he left office.

 

The Dot Com bust began almost a year before Clinton left office.

[tommyjacobs]

You'll have to explain that one ...

 

First you credit Congress and Greenspan for the success, but then you try to tie Clinton in when the economy went bust two years after he left office.

 

Who, then is responsible for this "rampant speculation"? Isn't it the same ones who made out well enough to live high and well the last eight years and help bankroll Bush II, Bush III (and Bush IV coming to a polling place near you ...)?

What I meant was that if you give Clinton credit for the boom, you should also give credit for the bust. However, I think that a lot of the turbulence of that cycle was due to the Fed not raising rates enough to curb economic growth.

 

And really, the housing crisis we see now is due in large part to the negative real interest rates we saw after the dot com bust, not because of anything Bush has done.

 

All of this is grossly oversimplified, of course, but we give far too much credit or blame to presidents for short term economic trends. No matter their level of competence, we will see short term moves in both directions, but good economic policy will lead to gains over the longer term.

[LouieB]

Changing the subject completely, but I saw the trailer for "W.", the new Oliver Stone move on Bush. Looks great. I think Stone is kind of a dick and plays pretty fast and loose with stuff, but this looks like alot of fun, even after 8 horrible years of the W. himself.

 

LouieB

[Central Scrutinizer]

The Dot Com bust began almost a year before Clinton left office.

The dot-com bust was speculation on technology that had nothing to do with the Clinton administration. That was people throwing money after pipe dreams and venture capitalists dumb enough to gamble on them.

[Central Scrutinizer]

What I meant was that if you give Clinton credit for the boom, you should also give credit for the bust. However, I think that a lot of the turbulence of that cycle was due to the Fed not raising rates enough to curb economic growth.

 

And really, the housing crisis we see now is due in large part to the negative real interest rates we saw after the dot com bust, not because of anything Bush has done.

 

All of this is grossly oversimplified, of course, but we give far too much credit or blame to presidents for short term economic trends. No matter their level of competence, we will see short term moves in both directions, but good economic policy will lead to gains over the longer term.

That's not oversimplified, that's complete heifer dust. The housing crisis has to do with playing fast and loose with Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac and screwing around with ARM rates to people that couldn't afford them in order to pocket fees and move property. It was a shell game, a paramid scheme waiting on the right shills to get stuck.

 

All of that happened under the Bush administration's nose.

[tommyjacobs]

That's not oversimplified, that's complete heifer dust. The housing crisis has to do with playing fast and loose with Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac and screwing around with ARM rates to people that couldn't afford them in order to pocket fees and move property. It was a shell game, a paramid scheme waiting on the right shills to get stuck.

 

All of that happened under the Bush administration's nose.

That was definitely part of it as well, but it never would have happened had interest rates been higher. But I can't say I feel too sorry for people that borrowed more money than they could afford or who signed up for an ARM knowing the rate would increase (they do tell you that, after all). I do feel sorry for people who got scammed with complicated mortgage-backed securities though, since there was a lot of deception involved in that case.

 

There's plenty of blame to around.