Brand Spanking New Election Thread

[Party @ the Moontower]

I agree with what you are saying, and I will probably end up voting for someone, but at this point in time, 2 months away and with all of the shit flying around, I feel very little motivation to do so.

 

But you're first paragraph is just absolutely right on with how I feel.

 

 

I agree with his 1st paragraph as well, and the whole post.

 

But,just what shit do you see Obama flinging? Seriously bobbob. What lies, what flip-flops, what character changes, what dirty dirty doo doo do you see? I'm not saying your wrong, you just make a lot of statements about Obama without backing them up with facts.

[Beltmann]

It's fair to say that Nader's presence in 2000 gave an assist to Bush, but I think it's unfair to say that his supporters should be held responsible for that. Truth is, if the Democrats had wanted those votes, they should have fielded a candidate who spoke to those voters; no party is entitled to anyone's vote.

[Tweedling]

I'm with Louie B on all this. I voted for Nader in 2000 because I thought Gore was a horrible debater and I thought Bush was a prick. I have definetly lived to regret this decision. As much as I would like to see a Paul/Nader ticket it's just not going to happen.

 

And as far as I'm concerned Obama has a great positive message which is something I have never heard from a politician. Yeah I'm sure Obama is a politician and I'm not guilable enough to think Obama is going to accomplish everything he said he is going to but he will definitely improve our standing in the world.

This is what I don't get. When has the world ever thought highly of America? Seriously.......

 

 

Do you realize how serious the situation is? If you don't vote for Obama, McCain will be elected. Then we'll have tax cuts for the rich, more oil drilling, conservative Supreme Court Justices, outlawed abortion, and no healthcare. This is the most important election ever!

 

Do you realize how serious the situation is? If you don't vote for McCain, Obama will be elected. Then we'll have high taxes, no more oil drilling, liberal Supreme Court Justices, legal abortion on demand, and socialized healthcare. This is the most important election ever!

[jc4prez]

I agree with his 1st paragraph as well, and the whole post.

 

But,just what shit do you see Obama flinging? Seriously bobbob. What lies, what flip-flops, what character changes, what dirty dirty doo doo do you see? I'm not saying your wrong, you just make a lot of statements about Obama without backing them up with facts.

 

 

FISA, he backed down.

 

Is the logic that obama will lower income taxes for the lower and middle class, therefore he is a good candidate?

 

 

ETA: Not to metion Joe Biden, what is there to like.

 

and take a look at his record: Count Me Out

[Tweedling]

I agree with his 1st paragraph as well, and the whole post.

 

But,just what shit do you see Obama flinging? Seriously bobbob. What lies, what flip-flops, what character changes, what dirty dirty doo doo do you see? I'm not saying your wrong, you just make a lot of statements about Obama without backing them up with facts.

"present"

[jc4prez]

It's fair to say that Nader's presence in 2000 gave an assist to Bush, but I think it's unfair to say that his supporters should be held responsible for that. Truth is, if the Democrats had wanted those votes, they should have fielded a candidate who spoke to those voters; no party is entitled to anyone's vote.

 

 

Gore didn't carry his home state.

 

THe gap between bush and gore was some 500 votes in florida. EVERY third party candidate got at least 500 votes. Therefore you could blame all of the third party candidates, or more rightly so ones that weren't even running a real campaign like Nader.

 

Do you hear gore blaming the green party? The problem is the system not other candidates.

 

Also lets not forget ross perot helped clinton win the election, we don't hear people complain about third parties in that kind of scenario.

 

And check this out: Nader helping Obama in the polls.

 

the fact of the matter is 50% of the population doesn't vote. They are to blame not those who actually showed up and voiced their opinion.

[OOO]

"present"

 

Obama acknowledges that over nearly eight years in the Illinois Senate, he voted "present" 129 times. That was out of roughly 4,000 votes he cast, so those "presents" amounted to about one of every 31 votes in his legislative career.

 

Illinois legislators often vote "present" and for a wide variety of reasons. Sometimes blocs of lawmakers do it as a protest in some dispute over rules and procedures. Obama was often joined in his "present" votes by 10 or 20 other senators.

 

In other cases, lawmakers do it to signal objections to the details of a measure that they support in principle. They also use "present" votes as strategic moves to defeat legislation or, of course, simply to avoid taking a firm position.

[Good Old Neon]

David Foster Wallace (I'm still in absolute fucking shock ) commenting on the nature of political discourse in this country (all of which, I, myself am often guilty of) - from an interview published in The Believer:

 

 

[fatheadfred]

I don't buy that we will see any more legitimate change in energy policy under Barrack as McCain (and at least McCain supports domestic drilling, which could potentially buy more time for alternative sources).

 

I do happen to support nuclear power though. If we are going to talk about renewable resources, that seems like a pretty good place to start.

 

Nuke power takes awhile. The push to get wind and solar would be much quicker than nuke or domestic drilling. McC is fossil fuel, Obama, not so much and much more in favor of wind and solar. This also will assist the domestic economy and the environment.

[fatheadfred]

FISA, he backed down.

 

Is the logic that obama will lower income taxes for the lower and middle class, therefore he is a good candidate?

 

 

ETA: Not to metion Joe Biden, what is there to like.

 

and take a look at his record: Count Me Out

Many are troubled by the FISA deal. I am. However, compared to McCain, Barry still seems to present more integrity in regard to the citizens of the US...oh and other people too.

[fatheadfred]

and take a look at his record: Count Me Out

That dude is running against Barry and Joey. You expect some real truth there? Some of the material looks like it is potentially legit, but there are many half truths throughout the piece.

[OOO]

this will be pulled by NBC soon, no doubt, but we finally get to see Tina Fey's Palin impression (it's quite good)

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nMuR1TFq1s

[kwall]

. . . and well over 90 percent of political commentary now simply abets the uncomplicatedly sexy delusion that one side is Right and Just and the other Wrong and Dangerous.

so it's bad to think that you're right and that the opposing view is wrong? i can't get behind that idea. when a liberal wins an election, i want him/her to at least have the courage of their convictions.

 

Opposing viewpoints are not just incorrect but contemptible, corrupt, evil . . .

 

. . . as is the belief that every last person you

[jenbobblehead]

Well, to be honest, the issues that are big in this election aren't ones that I feel all that strongly about. They are kind of open ended, and I don't think a black and white stance is necessarily the right one to take with most of them.

 

 

Less draconian laws across the board (from the PATRIOT Act down to anti-smoking and anti-drug laws)

 

Well, I hate to be the one to break it to you, but more of the same means more of the same. BTW, you're starting to smell a little like a libertarian, except for the public financed campaigns business. I don't think libertarians go for government money being spent that way.

 

Where are you on social spending?

[LouieB]

Glad to see everyone carried on in my absence.

 

Now i know why bobbob and jc4pres aren't voting for Obama (and maybe not for McCain), it is because they don't mirror EXACTLY their own personal positions on stuff. Wow, okay...let's each of us clone ourselves and vote for that clone as a third party candidate....that makes sense.....

 

Nader left the Greens because they were disorganized, but what party did he go to?? Some party smaller and less organized and less recognizable.

 

Is Ron Paul the savior of American politics...frankly while some of his positions are intriguing, some are downright wacky.

 

As for the rest??? Who really knows and frankly who really cares, since the REAL decision is are we going to have President Obama or President Palin. Are both choices somewhat based on the personality of the person...absolutely since we aren't putting up individual clones, we are putting up a real flesh and blood person. It is the reason many Americans voted for Bush two times because he seemed more real than either wooden Gore or snotty Kerry, he was the guy you could have a beer with so let's vote for him (he'll also beat the fuck out of those damn Muslims too...)

 

I said this in the last election...go ahead, vote Green, Paul, Communist, wackadoodle or Vader, I don't care, it is important to vote. But at the end of election day the person with the most votes wins.....PERIOD. And we are stuck for four years with either President Obama or President Palin, not President Paul or President Nader.

 

Taking one last thing, my talking down to someone here.....age does bring a touch of wisdom (and just to be self depreciating alot of other shit you don't want to know about...) and while in my 20s I also refused to vote because the system was "evil" and voting didn't change anything and blah blah blah.(now talking down to myself who was just like YOU way back then)...after 8 long years of Reagan, 8 long years of GWBush, and genuinely being excited (although cautious) about my homie Barak Obama, I can't understand how anyone who would rather see the country go in a different (if not perfect) direction wouldn't cast their single vote for Obama and be relatively pleased with their decision.

 

You can decide Obama doesn't support this or does support that and on and on until you are exhausted, but really do you want a more right wing Supreme Court (and yes that is an excellent single reason to vote Obama), and simply more of the same old Karl Rove, Dick Cheney policies of the past 8 years? If not then stop trying to sort out all the reasons NOT to vote for Obama and vote for him. He is young, intelligent, from Chicago, likes Wilco, African American, liberal, thoughtful, and a bunch of other things. If you don't vote for him we may get Ron Paul or Ralph Nader if there is suddenly a rush to vote for that elusive third party candidate, but more likely we are getting President Palin/McCain. After some contemplation about this, is this what you want? If so go for it.

 

See you after the election......

 

LouieB

[jenbobblehead]

Glad to see everyone carried on in my absence.

 

If you don't vote for him we may get Ron Paul or Ralph Nader if there is suddenly a rush to vote for that elusive third party candidate, but more likely we are getting President Palin/McCain. After some contemplation about this, is this what you want? If so go for it.

 

See you after the election......

 

LouieB

 

I'd like to echo Louie's sentiments and also say that it is too late for a third party candidate at this point. There's no way anyone will get enough traction for a useful write in vote. That ship has sailed.

 

In closing, I'd just like to say that voting gives you a free pass to complain. Not voting means stfu. speaking metaphorically, that is.

[MrRain422]

This is what I don't get. When has the world ever thought highly of America? Seriously.......

 

From about 1944-2002.

 

Some parts of the world still do think very highly of us, just not like before.

[Tweedling]

From about 1944-2002.

 

Some parts of the world still do think very highly of us, just not like before.

link?

[Sir Stewart]

link?

Link.

[Tweedling]

Link.

[LouieB]

Simply looking at Tweedlings avatar is enough to get me to vote Obama......

LouieB

[Sir Stewart]

That wasn't a joke - have you seen it? Forty years earlier than MrRain's date, but still.

[Good Old Neon]

so it's bad to think that you're right and that the opposing view is wrong? i can't get behind that idea. when a liberal wins an election, i want him/her to at least have the courage of their convictions.

 

 

i'm certain that someone will post examples of the opposite, but, in my experience, this notion generally comes from those on the left. those of us on the right usually just think the left is wrong and misguided, not evil assholes.

 

You

[Tweedling]

That wasn't a joke - have you seen it? Forty years earlier than MrRain's date, but still.

Well, it should have been- yeah I've seen it.

 

Simply looking at Tweedlings avatar is enough to get me to vote Obama......

LouieB

That's good enough for me.

[fatheadfred]

link?

dude, whatever