Isn't it time for a new election thread?!

[uncool2pillow]

I am.

 

I'm on the board of a local runaway shelter. If we didn't receive government grants, to the tune of $250k - $400k annually, we'd fold. Private donations average about $20k/year.

Point taken, and it is a good point. But what about the businesses that provide jobs that the kids you serve (and seriously, bless the work your shelter provides)? Does the shelter provide a more valuable service than employment?

[Winston Legthigh]

Point taken, and it is a good point. But what about the businesses that provide jobs that the kids you serve (and seriously, bless the work your shelter provides)? Does the shelter provide a more valuable service than employment?

Assuming that these kids aren't qualified for much more than typical minimum wage jobs, I don't know how to place value on providing a safe haven away from an abusive situation at home vs employment. High School "should" be their full-time job, not gainful employment. And if they don't make it through h.s., (or other tech school or otherwise) they're not going to gain skills to rise above much more than a typical minimum wage job.

[John Smith]

McCain needs to tread carefully with the whole Ayers thing afterall he has the keating scandal on his side of the court and those people from Iran Contra such as Ollie North who willingly subverted the constitution. And of course his VP has her AIP ties. If McCain is going to sling mud I think he will be covered in it himself.

[Guest Jules]

All this talk against a more just redistribution of wealth seems sort of vulgar considering we

[gogo]

McCain needs to tread carefully with the whole Ayers thing afterall he has the keating scandal on his side of the court and those people from Iran Contra such as Ollie North who willingly subverted the constitution. And of course his VP has her AIP ties. If McCain is going to sling mud I think he will be covered in it himself.

I was thinking about that, too. Anyone who isn't going to vote for Obama because of the Ayers connection has more than likely already made that decision. I think if McCain opens the door to Obama bringing up the Keating connection, that's more likely to affect the decisions that moderate voters are making about McCain's judgement in regard to current economic issues.

[Spawn's dad]

How did this happen exactly?

 

I swear, my inheritance wasn't that big

[Good Old Neon]

How did this happen exactly?

 

Fear, greed, lack of oversight, short term interests trumping long term stability

[Good Old Neon]

I was thinking about that, too. Anyone who isn't going to vote for Obama because of the Ayers connection has more than likely already made that decision. I think if McCain opens the door to Obama bringing up the Keating connection, that's more likely to affect the decisions that moderate voters are making about McCain's judgement in regard to current economic issues.

 

There

[gogo]

There

[myboyblue]

I also believe that, like the Ayers issue, people who are (or are not) voting for McCain specifically based on his choice of running mate have already made up their minds on that. I still think there's a small pool of undecided voters, looking at the top spots on the tickets, who can be swayed by the Keating issue.

 

It's entirely possible that I'm wrong, but we're talking about pretty small subsets of undecided voters at this point.

 

I don't know about that one... I know several people personally that Palin swayed them to the "no" side. Despite only being a VP candidate, she's fairly radical, inexperienced and McCain is closer to death than most presidential candidates.

[gogo]

No, I agree that Palin was a deciding factor for a lot of people. As was the Ayers thing, probably. I'm talking specifically about the people who remain undecided. I think Keating has more potential at this point to affect undecideds than Ayers. I'm saying that the people who were going to vote based on the Palin or Ayers factors have already made those decisions.

[Sir Stewart]

I saw a Sarah! bumpersticker this morning. True story.

[austrya]

I saw a Sarah! bumpersticker this morning. True story.

 

I saw one of those recently too. I was kind of hoping that the person driving was named Sarah.

[Edie]

I just think McCain is beginning to get desperate, grasping at whatever he thinks will get him headlines for the day. See below for proof.

 

McCain would guarantee all savings for 6 months

By BETH FOUHY, Associated Press Writer

 

BLUE BELL, Pa.

[MattZ]

In 2009 the amount you can pass tax free is $3.5million. Very few people hit this number.

 

Generally though people with real $$ have their estate lawyers set things up so that the tax is actually minimal. And the tax is not a DEATH TAX it is a wealth transfer tax which is applied even when you are alive transferring assets to others.

 

Two excellent points that often get overlooked when people talk about the DEATH TAX. Thanks John Smith.

 

This discussion simply cannot continue in any productive fashion without specifics. No one is in favor of taxing inheritances -- and we get into trouble when people throw out blanket terms like DEATH TAX without reference to how many people actually end up paying it. And without reference to how much is left behind after the estate planners have done their thing, and the trusts have been set up, and the taxes are paid. Without the frame of reference, everything gets lost in talking points. Why do you think the Repblicans coined the "death tax"? Better talking point. No one wants to get taxed when they die. Death sucks bad enough. "Estate tax" doesn't really get people upset.

 

As for the other side of the argument, I hate to say it, but it doesn't matter how hard people work. And it never has. Our society values certain services. It's not about the amount of effort, its about the value of your effort. People pay a lot of money to watch sports so athletes get paid a lot. People pay a lot of money for the best in medicine and so doctors get paid a lot. People pay a lot of money for the best legal advice, the best money management skills, etc. To suggest that "a mother working 2 jobs to make ends meet" is working just as hard is a red herring. It's irrelevant. If she is working two jobs that anyone else could work, then it doesnt provide a service that our society values. I hate to say it folks, but that's capitalism. You want to say that's not fair? Ok. But is that the fault of the athletes or doctors or lawyers or hedge fund managers? They were lucky enough or worked hard enough or knew the right people, etc. Thems the breaks. If you didn't fall into that category, you work your butt off working two jobs so that your kids get that opportunity (hopefully). And if they don't, hopefully, their kids can. (EDIT: I make this point only to suggest that this is the American Dream. If not you, hopefully your kids. I dont have a problem taxing the doctors/lawyers/hedge fund managers at higher rates. But the "effort" argument doesn't sway me in the least.)

[Edie]

beat you to it

[Analogman]

beat you to it

 

The internet is moving at a dial-up pace here for some odd reason.

[lost highway]

So much has happened on this thread geez....

 

1. The Book of Revelations is taken as slightly looney by many Christian scholars. It refers most clearly to a certain Roman emperor. Was written more than a millenium before Colombus touched new world soil.

 

2. I think the pool of undecided voters is getting smaller by the day and the polls are becoming a more accurate picture of national opinion.

 

3. Anyone who thinks Palin is ready to serve this country in the second highest position of office is the kind of voter I'm worried about.

 

4. There is no clear connection between income and merit or effort. Likewise there is no inverse connection. It is an irrelevant and subjective point.

[John Smith]

So much has happened on this thread geez....

 

1. The Book of Revelations is taken as slightly looney by many Christian scholars. It refers most clearly to a certain Roman emperor. Was written more than a millenium before Colombus touched new world soil.

 

2. I think the pool of undecided voters is getting smaller by the day and the polls are becoming a more accurate picture of national opinion.

 

3. Anyone who thinks Palin is ready to serve this country in the second highest position of office is the kind of voter I'm worried about.

 

4. There is no clear connection between income and merit or effort. Likewise there is no inverse connection. It is an irrelevant and subjective point.

 

1) I used to have pretty good discussions with my minister about Revelations and the Levitical Codes. He felt that Revelations was referring to the specific times which it was written and much of it was written in code that current day readers would have no clue to, but which contemporary readers would be immediately in tune with. He also wondered why it was included in the bible to begin with. As to the Leviticus (and other Pentateuch laws/codes) his thought was that way back when they put together the new testament that they made a mistake by adding it to the old testament. Jesus and the teachings of Jesus should have been held apart from the old testament especially the Moses books.

 

2) I think there are less undecided voters than people realize. I think many of the undecided have made their minds up long ago, yet don

[M. (hristine]

Christian scholars are not preaching the Book of Revelation, but plenty of evangelical churches are. And holding hugely successful conferences on the same.

 

Most of us are fairly insulated from this, but I assure you it exists with a much larger percentage of the population than you might imagine. And many of those folks are convinced of the veracity of Obama being the anti-Christ.

[John Smith]

Christian scholars are not preaching the Book of Revelation, but plenty of evangelical churches are. And holding hugely successful conferences on the same.

 

Most of us are fairly insulated from this, but I assure you it exists with a much larger percentage of the population than you might imagine. And many of those folks are convinced of the veracity of Obama being the anti-Christ.

 

Huge numbers of the population, the left behind series is all about revelations/end times.

[Analogman]

[John Smith]

 

Today in Scranton another McPalin supporter yelled out Kill Him at themention of Obama's name. Palin was not in the house at the time. But the speaker made no effort to rebuke the guy. Probably a Schrute.

[bjorn_skurj]

Christian scholars are not preaching the Book of Revelations, but plenty of evangelical churches are. And holding hugely successful conferences on the same.

 

Most of us are fairly insulated from this, but I assure you it exists with a much larger percentage of the population than you might imagine. And many of those folks are convinced of the veracity of Obama being the anti-Christ.

Yes. They use Revelation to scare the shit out of people and coax them into giving them money.

[M. (hristine]

Yes. They use Revelation to scare the shit out of people and coax them into giving them money.

There is a saying among the single men of these churches, "I'm a bachelor for the rapture."