Isn't it time for a new election thread?!

[aricandover]

rednecks against Obama

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BaxECcTjCuw

[uncool2pillow]

Asking a conservative why and how they like Wilco, is, to me, sort of like asking how on earth a liberal could ever befriend a conservative or a conservative, a liberal.

 

Or how I could have atheist friends.

[Edie]

At the risk of putting this thread back on topic, Real Clear has its electoral map with Obama over the 270 mark with Virginia's latest polls.

 

Look at the changes in the Electoral College rankings since 9/17 -- Obama hasn't lost ground and McCain has only lost it or just stayed even. Nearly every change has shifted the race toward Obama.

 

10/09 Virginia Toss Up

[mountain bed]

rednecks against Obama

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BaxECcTjCuw

I can't believe I watched the whole thing.

[John Smith]

Haven't you seen his reality show? Okay, I haven't does he rock and roll all night and party every day? I bet he did when they wrote the song.

 

I would think someone like you who has expressed a lot more passion for those lyrics than I might think he was though. I guess my interpretation of our dialogue is that I appreciate Imagine (and 1000s of other rock songs and other works of art) as a work of art. The unicorns and rainbows were a little belittling, but I stand by the point. You are much more inspired by the lyrics in a political sense. I don't see anything wrong with either of our points of view.

 

I won't watch that show Gene's a douchebag IMHO.

 

Actually if you have followed my narrative on politics I'm not really a utopian seeker. The first time I ever voted Democrat was 2000 when the R's put Bush out there. I could not stand the guy in 1976, 1986, 1996 or 2000 (yes he was in the press more than you can imagine back then.) and the fact that he was the nominee showed a disturbing trend for the republican party. I was actually a McCain supporter back in 2000. But knowing how Bush had lived his life as a petulant spoiled prick and hearing his campaign rhetoric and seeing that his people were going to rule from the far right so turned me off from them that it will take a lot for me to ever vote R again. Couple that with a new found interest in church and what they were saying and teaching in church was in no way shape or form in any sort of congruency with the republican party message. Pair that with the vitriolic hateful message their media machine has been pushing and I

[Edie]

Dem strategists see possible landslide

 

I'm almost afraid to read this

[Good Old Neon]

Dem strategists see possible landslide

 

I'm almost afraid to read this

 

I smell a jinx.

[austrya]

Dem strategists see possible landslide

 

I'm almost afraid to read this

 

That should help with the "bandwagon" vote.

[Edie]

This is why nothing should be taken for granted. VOTE!!!!!

[NightOfJoy]

Uh...yes actually he lost me during those years. I have only picked up his Jesus albums since only because I wanted all of his albums, but I almost never listen to them.

 

I can appreciate some of what was written during those years, but I still have little feeling for them.

 

Art that doesn't make you a bit uncomfortable is mostly just entertainment....

 

LouieB

 

Jokerman is a pretty cool tune.

[aricandover]

This is why nothing should be taken for granted. VOTE!!!!!

 

in your opinion, which is worse: not voting at all or voting for someone other than Obama?

[mountain bed]

Jokerman is a pretty cool tune.

Yeah, but that's on the "Infidels" album.

[quarter23cd]

That should help with the "bandwagon" vote.

What about the "rooting for the underdog" crowd?

[austrya]

What about the "rooting for the underdog" crowd?

 

I think we'll be ok. The bandwagon usually draws bigger crowds.

 

Well, I guess they do anyways. I couldn't get Tiger tickets this year, so I'm thinking it's true.

[John Smith]

I think we'll be ok. The bandwagon usually draws bigger crowds.

 

Bandwagons empty as quickly as they fill...see the 2008 Cubs for instance.

[Edie]

in your opinion, which is worse: not voting at all or voting for someone other than Obama?

 

I think everyone who is old enough to vote should vote, regardless of party affiliation.

 

My very republican grandparents used to take their cook and housemaid to the polling place, knowing full well that they would vote democratic. I believe in this too.

[Analogman]

McCain-Palin Rally Attendees: "Obama Is A Terrorist"

[aricandover]

I think everyone who is old enough to vote should vote, regardless of party affiliation.

 

My very republican grandparents used to take their cook and housemaid to the polling place, knowing full well that they would vote democratic. I believe in this too.

 

I'm just looking for opinions, because this is the first time in my life (since I've been of age) where I don't know if I'm going to vote or not.

[Guest Jules]

Personal? What did he do to you to make this personal? Did he steal your lunch money? Girlfriend? Give you a flat tire? What????

Say what again.

[Sir Stewart]

this is the first time in my life (since I've been of age) where I don't know if I'm going to vote or not.

Because of Wilco?

[aricandover]

Because of Wilco?

 

 

and Kid Rock

[John Smith]

Do you not think that part of the problem was that the government (through the Community Reinvestment Act) pressured banks to offer sub-prime loans? And weren't there a lot of Democrats like Barney Frank who were opposed to more oversight on Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac and didn't think there was a problem?

 

BTW the largest part of the equation, from what I understand is not the mortgages themselves, which are huge, but the problem is the financial products leveraged off those mortgages.

 

From Media Matters (which I assume will be the last thing some here read on this post):

 

Several conservatives in the media have recently blamed the Community Reinvestment Act (CRA) for the current financial crisis -- when, in fact, the CRA does not apply to institutions making what some experts have estimated to be the vast majority of troubled loans underlying the crisis. In a September 28 Boston Globe column, Jeff Jacoby asserted: "The pressure to make more loans to minorities (read: to borrowers with weak credit histories) became relentless. Congress passed the Community Reinvestment Act, empowering regulators to punish banks that failed to 'meet the credit needs' of 'low-income, minority, and distressed neighborhoods.' Lenders responded by loosening their underwriting standards and making increasingly shoddy loans." Likewise, during the September 25 edition of The Radio Factor with Bill O'Reilly, guest Jonathan Hoenig, a regular panelist on Fox News' Cashin' In and managing member of Capitalistpig Asset Management LLC, asserted that the CRA "makes banks give loans to bad risks." Similarly, during the September 25 edition of Fox News' The O'Reilly Factor, radio host Laura Ingraham said that "the problem here is government intervention in the free markets" and baselessly suggested that 1995 rules strengthening the CRA "pushed all these institutions to lend to minority communities, many were very risky loans." A September 25 Investor's Business Daily editorial claimed the CRA "forced banks to make many more subprime loans." Contrary to the accusation that the CRA is responsible for the current crisis, experts have said that approximately 80 percent of high-priced subprime loans were offered by financial institutions that are not subject to the CRA. Moreover, the president of the Federal Reserve Bank of San Francisco earlier this year said the CRA has actually increased the volume of responsible lending to low- and moderate-income households, as Center for American Progress senior fellow Robert Gordon noted in an American Prospect blog post.

 

On The Radio Factor, host Bill O'Reilly asked Hoenig whether he had "a plan B" for the proposal for the U.S. Treasury to purchase up to $700 billion in mortgage-backed securities. Hoenig replied, "Let the bad actors fail, let bad banks fail, kick deadbeats out of their homes, get rid of the Community Reinvestment Act that makes banks give loans to bad risks, no more easy money from the Fed, no more bailouts for anybody, and no Fannie, Freddie, or government [inaudible]." During The O'Reilly Factor that evening, Ingraham claimed:

 

They say, "Well, this is a failure of the markets. Oh, this is about greed on Wall Street." And Bill, the problem here is government intervention in the free markets. 1995, when Bill Clinton decide to tell, you know, [then-Treasury Secretary] Robert Rubin to rewrite the rules that govern the Community Reinvestment Act and push all these institutions to lend to minority communities, many were very risky loans. That was a noble idea, perhaps, but that certainly wasn't following free-market principles. This big pressure on institutions to dole out money and these risky loans started this whole ball rolling at Fannie and Freddie.

 

In fact, the federal Community Reinvestment Act -- enacted in 1977 -- applies only to depository institutions, such as banks and savings and loan associations. In testimony before the House Financial Services Committee, Michigan law professor Michael Barr stated that while problems in the subprime lending industry were a driving force behind the housing crisis, he estimated that only 20 percent of subprime mortgages were issued by depository institutions under the CRA. In his testimony, Barr stated:

 

Despite the fact that CRA appears to have increased bank and thrift lending in low- and moderate-income communities, such institutions are not the only ones operating in these areas. In fact, with new and lower-cost sources of funding available from the secondary market through securitization, and with advances in financial technology, subprime lending exploded in the late 1990s, reaching over $600 billion and 20% of all originations by 2005. More than half of subprime loans were made by independent mortgage companies not subject to comprehensive federal supervision; another 30 percent of such originations were made by affiliates of banks or thrifts, which are not subject to routine examination or supervision, and the remaining 20 percent were made by banks and thrifts.

 

Moreover, in comments to the National Interagency Community Reinvestment Conference in March, the president and CEO of the Federal Reserve Bank of San Francisco, Janet Yellen, criticized efforts to blame CRA lending for weaknesses in the mortgage market, stating:

 

There has been a tendency to conflate the current problems in the subprime market with CRA-motivated lending, or with lending to low-income families in general. I believe it is very important to make a distinction between the two. Most of the loans made by depository institutions examined under the CRA have not been higher-priced loans, and studies have shown that the CRA has increased the volume of responsible lending to low- and moderate-income households. We should not view the current foreclosure trends as justification to abandon the goal of expanding access to credit among low-income households, since access to credit, and the subsequent ability to buy a home, remains one of the most important mechanisms we have to help low-income families build wealth over the long term.

 

From the September 25 edition of the Westwood One's The Radio Factor with Bill O'Reilly:

 

O'REILLY: I don't know if it's gonna solve it. I can't say with certainty that --

 

HOENIG: It's not, Bill, it's not.

 

O'REILLY: OK. But there's no other alternative other than a deep, deep recession, or -- slash depression, depending on what the foreign investors do. OK? There's no other alternative. There's no plan B.

 

HOENIG: Well, they're going to turn what probably could be 18-month slowdown -- Bill, they're going to turn that into a decades-long depression.

 

O'REILLY: I'm gonna give you 30 seconds to give me a plan B. You got one?

 

HOENIG: Let the -- yeah, absolutely.

 

O'REILLY: Go.

 

HOENIG: Let the bad actors fail, let bad banks fail, kick deadbeats out of their homes, get rid of the Community Reinvestment Act that makes banks give loans to bad risks, no more easy money from the Fed, no more bailouts for anybody, and no Fannie, Freddie, or government [inaudible].

 

O'REILLY: All right, and let the chips fall, right? All the people who lose their jobs, all the people who lose their savings, all the panic that will ensue -- all the panic, remember --

 

HOENIG: Yeah, that's the --

 

O'REILLY: -- panic that will ensue, you're going to sit by and say, "It's OK, because we'll emerge five years from now stronger."

 

HOENIG: You're so concerned with the folks, Bill, but you rattle off the same drivel that comes out of both the Democrats --

 

O'REILLY: You don't believe there would be panic from your plan?

 

HOENIG: Bill, the panic's being caused by the government. They're making up the rules as they go along. They're distorting markets and prices every day. Every little thing that comes out of [Treasury Secretary Henry] Paulson or [Rep.] Barney Frank's [D-MA] mouth has trillions of dollars worth of impact for those of us who are the folks working for a living, trying to navigate this market.

 

O'REILLY: All right, last question.

 

From the September 25 edition of Fox News' The O'Reilly Factor:

 

O'REILLY: All right, [ABC News correspondent] John Stossel just said -- took a contrarian point of view and said, "Look, you know, you're enabling an inefficient government to be even more inefficient by doing this." I say you have to do the bailout. What say you?

 

INGRAHAM: Well, I think that I'm probably more closely aligned with Stossel than you, Bill.

 

Here's what I think we have to be very concerned about here is that the narrative being written about how we got here is the following. And you've heard [sen. John] McCain and [sen. Barack] Obama say similar things.

 

They say, "Well, this is a failure of the markets. Oh, this is about greed on Wall Street." And Bill, the problem here is government intervention in the free markets. 1995, when Bill Clinton decide to tell, you know, Robert Rubin to rewrite the rules that govern the Community Reinvestment Act and push all these institutions to lend to minority communities, many were very risky loans. That was a noble idea, perhaps, but that certainly wasn't following free-market principles. This big pressure on institutions to dole out money and these risky loans started this whole ball rolling at Fannie and Freddie.

 

O'REILLY: I don't disagree with you.

 

INGRAHAM: That's the problem.

 

O'REILLY: I don't disagree with you there. But see, that's hindsight. That was a mistake. But now we have to deal with reality of foreign investors pulling out of here unless they get assurances the federal government won't let the whole thing collapse. That's where I am, because I don't want people getting hurt from some mistake during the Clinton administration, because the Bush administration didn't practice oversight either, as I've said many times.

 

From the September 25 Investor's Business Daily editorial:

 

Congressional leaders contend that Wall Street is to blame and must be punished. Yet they're the ones who during the Carter years approved the Community Reinvestment Act that forced banks to make many more subprime loans.

 

And it was President Clinton who dramatically accelerated the rules that coerced banks to make far more subprime loans to people who couldn't normally qualify.

 

Three of every four foreclosures have involved these subprime loans. Most should never have been made, but big government mandated that they be made or else. Once again, a big government with the best of intentions created terrible unintended consequences. It was big government that started the whole mess.

 

From Jacoby's September 28 Boston Globe column:

 

The roots of this crisis go back to the Carter administration. That was when government officials, egged on by left-wing activists, began accusing mortgage lenders of racism and "redlining" because urban blacks were being denied mortgages at a higher rate than suburban whites.

 

The pressure to make more loans to minorities (read: to borrowers with weak credit histories) became relentless. Congress passed the Community Reinvestment Act, empowering regulators to punish banks that failed to "meet the credit needs" of "low-income, minority, and distressed neighborhoods." Lenders responded by loosening their underwriting standards and making increasingly shoddy loans. The two government-chartered mortgage finance firms, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, encouraged this "subprime" lending by authorizing ever more "flexible" criteria by which high-risk borrowers could be qualified for home loans, and then buying up the questionable mortgages that ensued.

[Panther]

 

what do you folk make of this video? Im not to sure I mean its weird that the guy is escorted for disagreing with the Obama crowd but it dosent seem that insane that you can remove someone from a rally for saying diffrent things in this type of election , I mean you don't want that guy on camera or Cnn. Im not saying what he thinks is right but do any of you think thats its okay to remove people this way?

[Tweedling]

I registered to vote with the help of some lovely people from ACORN. They said they would come pick me up and take me to the voting poll. They also said I wouldn't have to worry about voting they would do that for me as well!

[John Smith]

what do you folk make of this video? Im not to sure I mean its weird that the guy is escorted for disagreing with the Obama crowd but it dosent seem that insane that you can remove someone from a rally for saying diffrent things in this type of election , I mean you don't want that guy on camera or Cnn. Im not saying what he thinks is right but do any of you think thats its okay to remove people this way?

 

I am agianst this whole notion of removing or excluding those who disagree with you from the crowd. Thhey all have voices to be heard. I was against it when Bush did it and I'm against it when the Obam camp does it. The only exception should be for thhose who pose a danger to others or those who are indanger for simply speaking, which is also bullshit.