The end is near!

[mountain bed]

http://archive.viachicago.org/index.php?showtopic=7186

Thanks for posting this - I really enjoyed.

[MrRain422]

It's a chicken/egg question, really. I just don't remember it being a big thing for democrats until '04, and I think it's fair to say that losing a close elections with that as a factor probably influenced that.

 

I agree that Democrats, as a group, picked up on the environment more after '04, but Gore personally had been hugely involved in environmental issues for decades before that, so if he had won, I think he probably would have pushed the issue to a much greater degree than Dems have even now, and I think that Gore is the primary figure in making it as big as an issue as it is, even if it would have been even greater has he been President.

[quarter23cd]

Nicely played, Peel.

 

 

You're on my list.

 

 

Luckily someone else besides me has pointed out that Gore was (is) a long time environmentalist and that Democrats supported environmental legislation without Nader....

Right. But I also remember being disappointed that Gore surpsingly seemed to barely touch upon the subject during his 2000 campaign, which was one of many problems I had with it.

[kwall]

Andrew Sullivan:

 

I think it's now fair to say it's a war. My view is that after the McCain peeps had made that crazy decision and realized after the fact what they had on their hands, they put their best face on it. They knew that the normal rules for a veep - a press conference, full media accessibility, airing of all the biographical details - would have required the candidate to quit before November. So they tried to shield her from actual democracy - a dangerous decision for the rest of us, but a rational, cynical decision for a campaign running a delusional liar as the potential next president of the US. Palin of course, lives in her own little, somewhat nutty, world and now believes her manifest destiny has been thwarted.

 

It's a massive, unmissable clusterfuck and has been for two months. They just can't hide it any longer. And the pick is a devastating one - because it basically destroys John McCain's credibility as a presidential decision-maker. His first major decision as a future president is one of the worst in American political history. That alone should be enough to seal his fate next Tuesday. You need nothing else.

 

The article Sullivan is referring to - http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Vote2008/St...4663&page=1

excellent.

[Gobias Industries]

Right - before that it was a Republican thing. Bush 41 was The Environmental President, after all.

 

Nixon? I think one would have to argue that Nixon started it all with the EPA. Who knows if it was done mostly because Nixon wanted to actually do something before "accidentally" undermining his presidency, or because the Democrats strong-armed him into doing it, but he did it. Ironically, Nixon was way more Democrat than most people portray him to be.

[sweetheart-mine]

Nixon? I think one would have to argue that Nixon started it all with the EPA. Who knows if it was done mostly because Nixon wanted to actually do something before "accidentally" undermining his presidency, or because the Democrats strong-armed him into doing it, but he did it. Ironically, Nixon was way more Democrat than most people portray him to be.

 

NOW he looks positively democrat. that's how far right we've been taken.

[sweetheart-mine]

Thanks for posting this - I really enjoyed.

 

that was a really fun read. thanks from me too. i noticed that louie back then predicted half the democratic ticket this year and the other half came oh so close. kind of amazing.

[Duck-Billed Catechist]

Gallups "traditional" likely voter model now has an Obama with a 2 point lead. They seem fairly legit, although their "expanded" likely voter model has Obama at +7. Pew Research recently had Obama at +15. Polls are funny.

[Analogman]

Gallups "traditional" likely voter model now has an Obama with a 2 point lead. They seem fairly legit, although their "expanded" likely voter model has Obama at +7. Pew Research recently had Obama at +15. Polls are funny.

 

Last night, as I was watching CNN's news feature called, Poll of Polls, there was a commercial for an upcoming news segment about Purity Balls. I thought I was watching SNL there for a moment.

[quarter23cd]

Gallups "traditional" likely voter model now has an Obama with a 2 point lead. They seem fairly legit, although their "expanded" likely voter model has Obama at +7. Pew Research recently had Obama at +15. Polls are funny.

Pew also says that Obama leads by 19 points among people who have already voted. That's an interesting one--and the remainder who are voting on election day pretty evenly split. Now that's some crazy stuff right there.

 

Polls are definitely funny things. There are ones with huge margins, ones that are "narrowing" and the majority haven't really moved all that much. We will see, I guess...

[ih8music]

Gallups "traditional" likely voter model now has an Obama with a 2 point lead. They seem fairly legit, although their "expanded" likely voter model has Obama at +7. Pew Research recently had Obama at +15. Polls are funny.

Gallup's traditional model largely assumes low turnout among young and minority voters. It also assumes that turnout will be roughly even between Dems and Repubs (as it was in 2004). If that happens, Obama's get out the vote campaign will be a huge failure - but evidence from early voting already suggests otherwise.

 

Oh really....then why did the ATF just break up a young skin-head group who was talking of assasinating of him? (And killing a bunch of blacks along with him.)

and I believe the two individuals caught were 18 & 20 yrs old.

[bobbob1313]

and I believe the two individuals caught were 18 & 20 yrs old.

 

So ignoring all evidence to the contrary, all young people are racists because a couple of kids? Come the fuck on, man.

 

You'll have outliers in any group. But to the vast majority of young people, race isn't important. We are divided much more along class lines than anything.

[Sir Stewart]

On the issue of race - there are a shit-ton of young racists in this country. And there are a shit-ton of young non-racists in this country.

[Mrs. Peel]

I really think that depends on where in the country you are. I think there is a whole big segment of the young population who still see race as an issue.

 

EDIT: Yeah, what he said.

[ih8music]

So ignoring all evidence to the contrary, all young people are racists because a couple of kids? Come the fuck on, man.

 

You'll have outliers in any group. But to the vast majority of young people, race isn't important. We are divided much more along class lines than anything.

calm down. I was merely pointing out that these two were in the demographic that you say (and I agree that) largely doesn't view race as a major issue. but there still are racists in that group - just as they are across all elements of society, across the country.

[bobbob1313]

I am in the voting booth!

[Duck-Billed Catechist]

I am in the voting booth!

Vote for Obama! Won't somebody think of the children?!

[quarter23cd]

I am in the voting booth!

Choose option C. That's usually right!

[LouieB]

So ignoring all evidence to the contrary, all young people are racists because a couple of kids? Come the fuck on, man.

 

You'll have outliers in any group. But to the vast majority of young people, race isn't important. We are divided much more along class lines than anything.

Right on.....

 

Race may not be that big a deal unless you are in fact of another race. (or a die hard racist...) When all is said and done the vast majority of African Americans in this country will have voted for Obama. For that matter a large percentage of young people (at least I hope) will have voted for Obama, a whole bunch of educated people will have voted for Obama. McCain will be left with the less educated older white people to vote for him and it appears even alot of them are going to vote Obama. And few of them are going to have engaged in the angst you seem to have.....

 

LouieB

[EL the Famous]

On the issue of race - there are a shit-ton of young racists in this country. And there are a shit-ton of young non-racists in this country.

 

totally. that said, i really do think i agree w/ bobob relative to what the split of racist to non-racist is today versus even 10 years ago. it's always there and always will be...still a factor, but not as much. or something.

 

it's just kind of a cool historical bonus for me w/ obama, but i can say w/ all honesty...and this is part of why i'm so enthused about him...his performance in this campaign has made me all but forget he's even the first black man to be on the cusp of the presidency. my opinion only, of course.

 

finally, being passionate about your candidate versus another via a heated discussion/debate on the issues, side-by-side...cool. challenging someone else's charachter/name-calling over their vote...weak and, quite frankly, detrimental to your cause. i love ya' lou, but damn.

[LouieB]

i love ya' lou, but damn.

let's see....if you read through all the threads it didn't really get personnal from me until people started attacking me personally. Others here were getting pretty insulting and it didn't seem to bother anyone all that much, but when I tried to make a point or two then it was my fault somehow.

 

In fact I didn't weigh in here until fairly late in the convo. Its okay..I am pretty much done anyway and these threads...well they will be history too soon.

 

LouieB

[bobbob1313]

Yes, lou. You are the victim.

 

Whatever. I voted for barrack. Yay. I'll be writing something more a little later, but that's it for now.

[Sir Stewart]

I am in the voting booth!

Isn't this illegal - like texting your friends during trivia night at a bar?

[jakobnicholas]

When all is said and done the vast majority of African Americans in this country will have voted for Obama. For that matter a large percentage of young people (at least I hope) will have voted for Obama, a whole bunch of educated people will have voted for Obama. McCain will be left with the less educated older white people to vote for him and it appears even alot of them are going to vote Obama.

 

 

 

 

 

Well THAT doesn't sound elitist.

[EL the Famous]

Right on.....

 

Race may not be that big a deal unless you are in fact of another race. (or a die hard racist...) When all is said and done the vast majority of African Americans in this country will have voted for Obama. For that matter a large percentage of young people (at least I hope) will have voted for Obama, a whole bunch of educated people will have voted for Obama. McCain will be left with the less educated older white people to vote for him and it appears even alot of them are going to vote Obama. And few of them are going to have engaged in the angst you seem to have.....

 

LouieB