Michael Jackson..RIP

[LouieB]

Sitting here listening to his records and reflecting on how well known and recognized he was makes me a touch sad, even if I was not his biggest fan. Meanwhile Brother Ray just keeps saying how much my copies of his LPs are worth and of course I tell him they really aren't since he sold millions of them. (My copy of Off the Wall, which is playing right this minute, cost me 99 cents.)

 

Speaking of his money problems, I would guess that dying was a good career move on his part and that perhaps the run on his music will help the Jackson family get out from under the crushing debt he left.

 

LouieB

[Analogman]

I could never get into that music. As I already said, to me he was someone from a cartoon when I was a little kid. I don't deny he had talent, but the sort of music he made as time went by is just not my cup of tea.

[LouieB]

I could never get into that music. As I already said, to me he was someone from a cartoon when I was a little kid. I don't deny he had talent, but the sort of music he made as time went by is just not my cup of tea.

Mt. Bed said as much too. Even in his heydays (including his time with the Jacksons) he was a cartoon of sorts (there was a Jackson 5 cartoon as I recall...), but there is something sort of catchy about his songs and there was certainly plenty that made him much more than just a singer (and dancer). Plenty of good singers have come and gone and not managed to garner the kind of attention Michael did.

 

And he certainly had the kind of mightmare stage parent early career that made a basket case out of Brian Wilson. Both men never really matured and never figured out how to survive their early success. I suppose that is also part of the attraction.

 

LouieB

[Analogman]

I should give an example of a song I think is good:

 

Never Can Say Goodbye (studio version)

 

 

Now, there is another version of this on Youtube from their (Jackson Five) variety show - it's just not the same vibe.

 

Also - here is a bit of the cartoon for those who never saw it:

 

The Love You Save (from the Jackson Five cartoon show)

[mountain bed]

I doubt many discussions of MJ will omit the fact he was a weirdo of the first magnitude; few discussions of Wagner these days fail to bring up his anti-Semitism. Ike Turner? Even he got props when he died. It could be that the art touches many lives, but the abuse few, albeit profoundly negatively, and that's why it is glossed over or forgiven by many.

Yeah. To mention someone who is still alive - how many of us love the music of Zeppelin? I grew up idolizing Jimmy Page. But (according to the sordid "Hammer Of The Gods") Jimmy's main squeeze in LA was a 14 year old girl (Lori Maddox). Sick.

[Analogman]

Yeah. To mention someone who is still alive - how many of us love the music of Zeppelin? I grew up idolizing Jimmy Page. But (according to the sordid "Hammer Of The Gods") Jimmy's main squeeze in LA was a 14 year old girl (Lori Maddox). Sick.

 

Another story you don't here much about - just like when Elvis first met Priscilla. It was not overlooked for Jerry Lee, though.

[bjorn_skurj]

Well, it was referenced by the Beastie Boys:

 

"If I played guitar I'd be Jimmy Page

The girlies I like are underage (Check it!)"

[Analogman]

He was not the only one. And of course, now we are on a different trip.

[Spawn's dad]

Yeah.

 

so where's the tipping point with age & gender?

[Analogman]

Yeah.

 

so where's the tipping point with age & gender?

 

I suppose that depends on a person's culture, country of origin, or religious cult membership. And for some, how much money/power they have, and what they can get away with doing.

[bjorn_skurj]

Yeah.

 

so where's the tipping point with age & gender?

"How old is 15, really?" - Dave Chappelle

[The High Heat]

XM Radio has a tribute channel set up (ch. 62). MJ probably has well over 100 recorded songs and they're basically playing twelve of them.

[Moss]

Another story you don't here much about - just like when Elvis first met Priscilla. It was not overlooked for Jerry Lee, though.

 

The weird part is he had the permission of the parents.

[isadorah]

Since child molestation was an integral part of ancient Greek culture, does that make everything the ancient Greeks accomplished tainted?

 

since it was socially acceptable behavior in Greek culture, there was no question or controversy at the time the art was created. Gauguin was not praised and held in high regards as an artist in his time and moved to Tahiti in part because of his bad behavior not being accepted in europe. When Gauguin died (of syphilis), his bad behavior wasn't overlooked because he was a good artist. And he put it all out there, the girls in his paintings were the very girls he had his way with. should we aspire and encourage others to aspire to ancient greek culture. no. should we revere the art of that time. sure. should we revere it and play ignorant to the history and culture that informed the art, no. i can't remember who said this, but somewhere in history someone noted that art is a reflection of the culture of the time; without art we would not know who we are. i think MJs work should be appreciated, but it should be appreciated in full context and not separated. the minute you separate the two, the unacceptable behavior is forgotten. then what would we learn about ourselves as a culture and how would we prevent such a tragic story from happening again in the future?

[PopTodd]

Michael Jackson died back in '07, as you can plainly see:

HERE IS THE SITE

[Spawn's dad]

Do you suppose the ancient greeks appreciated their art at the time? Maybe we should shun Michael Jackson and let some future generation appreciate him?

 

And back to A-Man's point I'm still disturbed by the idea that if the kid was 15 and a girl it probably wouldn't be met with sure ire.

[Analogman]

Do you suppose the ancient greeks appreciated their art at the time? Maybe we should shun Michael Jackson and let some future generation appreciate him?

 

And back to A-Man's point I'm still disturbed by the idea that if the kid was 15 and a girl it probably wouldn't be met with sure ire.

 

And if she was say, 16, a lot of people would say that is ok.

 

And to go even beyond that - why is it when a female teacher is busted messing with a student her sentencing is typically lighter than when a male teacher gets busted for messing with a student.

 

And also - do religious figures who do this sort of thing usually go to jail - or is it simply a matter of a pay-off.

 

I think it always comes down to how much power/money a person has.

[gogo]

Even in his heydays (including his time with the Jacksons) he was a cartoon of sorts (there was a Jackson 5 cartoon as I recall...), but there is something sort of catchy about his songs and there was certainly plenty that made him much more than just a singer (and dancer). Plenty of good singers have come and gone and not managed to garner the kind of attention Michael did.

Maybe we should shun Michael Jackson and let some future generation appreciate him?

Even those these two posts are on totally different topics, they both relate to what I've been thinking since hearing about MJ's death. Thirty years after Off The Wall was the soundtrack to my junior high school years, my nieces spent most of last year talking about the coolest kid at their middle school, who just happened to be the kid who did the best Michael Jackson impression at the school talent show. I think kids that age will always respond to his music, it's just a direct shot to the pure-pop center of the brain, wherever that might be.

 

Having said that, the kids are sad to hear that Michael Jackson died. I don't think they've read any of the news stories closely enough to have any sense of the allegations against him, although I assume some of the kids in their school will have done so, and they'll all hear these stories eventually. But I wonder if, as time passes, generations of kids will continue to respond to the music, and those of us who followed these stories as they happened will just fade away. I suspect that over time, the music will be a stronger legacy than the controversy.

[Analogman]

Michael Jackson Ticket Refund Details Announced By AEG

June 29, 2009 04:52 PM ET

Mitchell Peters, L.A.

 

AEG Live has announced that full refunds will be given to fans who purchased tickets through authorized agents to Michael Jackson's 50 planned concerts at the O2 Arena in London, according to a news release from the promoter, which operates the O2 Arena. The refunds will include service fee charges.

 

On July 1, fans who purchased tickets to Jackson’s "This Is It" concerts will be directed to MichaelJacksonLive.com for information about how to receive full refunds. The refunds will be processed by authorized ticketing agencies, including primary ticketing company Ticketmaster and U.K. reseller Viagogo, among others.

 

Fans will be also given the option to receive the concert tickets as souvenirs in lieu of the full refunds. The tickets were printed with the lenticular process and were designed by Jackson, according to the release. The offer will be valid through Aug. 14.

 

"The world lost a kind soul who just happened to be the greatest entertainer the world has ever known," AEG Live president/CEO Randy Phillips said in a statement. "Since he loved his fans in life, it is incumbent upon us to treat them with the same reverence and respect after his death."

 

Jackson's planned 50-show run at the O2 Arena in London would have been the highest-grossing single concert engagement. More than $85 million worth of tickets had already been sold for the series of performances.

[twigboyjoe]

I'd be interested to see how many people actually go for the 'souvenir ticket' option...I mean, that's just a bleedin scam isn't it?!

 

I'd take the money (esp at some of those prices!) any day....sure, a ticket would be a 'souvenir' but that's all it'd ever be - I just hope people don't go thinking it'll be worth something in years to come - I mean, 50 dates x 10,000 souvenir tickets...it's hardly limited edition is it??

[Guest Speed Racer]

I mean, 50 dates x 10,000 souvenir tickets...it's hardly limited edition is it??

 

I'll bet there are a lot of folks who were planning on attending multiple nights. That brings the number down a smidge. It also ups the number of folks who think that this statement: "I have souvenier Michael Jackson tickets from his 2009 tour that didn't happen!!" is a cooler statement than this: "I had $200 in refunds four years ago because Michael Jackson died and I couldn't see his shows! And I've since spent it!"

 

Which brings me to this: I don't think Michael Jackson is receiving all this sensationalist coverage because he's weird - lord knows, weird doesn't get you a hell of a lot of mileage this days. Michael Jackson is both weird and adored, and the weird and the adored reached unprecedented levels. Again, child molesters are sadly not unique, nor are celebrity child molesters, but plastic-surgery-ridden, amusement-park-home-owning, baby-dangling, mask-wearing, reclusive, WIDLY FAMOUS AND SUCCESSFUL child molesters are.

 

And yet people are obsessed with this man, idolize him - as much as Elvis, as much as Star Wars, as much as the Beatles, as much as Jesus. They cry at the sight of him, make mass pilgrimages to places he would be appearing, rallied for him outside of court in the face of very strong evidence against him. The coverage of his death is as much about his death as it is about the world's reaction.

 

All the ground he broke in the record industry and pop culture, he broke the equivalent ground in the weird and fan industries, too. People aren't paying attention to this because/in spite of the fact that he may have molested kids. He truly was one of the most confounding people to grow up, burn out, and die in the American and global spotlight - and for the first time, we really got to see it start to finish.

[Winston Legthigh]

I still get a kick that Tuddy from Goodfellas was his manager. I saw him on the news Monday morning, talking about MJ's death - I kept waiting for him to say "we wasted SIX fucking towels on this guy. We gotta toughen this kid up!"

[Sir Stewart]

I still get a kick that Tuddy from Goodfellas was his manager. I saw him on the news Monday morning, talking about MJ's death - I kept waiting for him to say "we wasted SIX fucking towels on this guy. We gotta toughen this kid up!"

Totally.

The closest I can get to how those two worlds were brought together - Scorsese must've met DiLeo while shooting the video for 'Bad', and the connection bridged to GoodFellas. Or, Joe Pesci befriended DiLeo when they worked on Moonwalker together. Either way - weird stuff. "Hey Junior, 'ere."

[bobfrombob]

"I have souvenier Michael Jackson tickets from his 2009 tour that didn't happen!!" is a cooler statement than this: "I had $200 in refunds four years ago because Michael Jackson died and I couldn't see his shows! And I've since spent it!"

I long ago spent the $12 refund or whatever it was for a Led Zeppelin show that got cancelled. I certainly wish I had kept that ticket.

[JerseyMike]

I'd be interested to see how many people actually go for the 'souvenir ticket' option...I mean, that's just a bleedin scam isn't it?!

 

I'd take the money (esp at some of those prices!) any day....sure, a ticket would be a 'souvenir' but that's all it'd ever be - I just hope people don't go thinking it'll be worth something in years to come - I mean, 50 dates x 10,000 souvenir tickets...it's hardly limited edition is it??

 

I wonder why you can't keep the ticket AND still get a refund. Its not like you're going to be scalping them for the next MJ show, and there must be some data-base with names and CC numbers to insure refunds are distributed properly. If you paid cash, well that's one thing, but if you used a credit card or paypal, you should be able to get a refund anyway. I still have all of my tickets that I mail-ordered for the Grateful Dead Fall Tour of '95 and I got a full refund as well.

 

On another topic...

 

When speaking to people about MJ's death, I have been surprised how many people have suggested that he faked his death. That was my initial cynical reaction, but I have a warped sense of hunor. But when you think about it, it kinda makes sense.

1) With his 50-show run coming up, MJ may have realized that during rehearsals that he didn't have the strength, the moves or the voice to go through with it, which would have been humiliating to a man who once ruled the pop world.

2) Looming financial disaster, bankruptcy.

3) The shadow cast by the child molestation issue.

 

If anybody was going to try something like this, MJ would be at or near the top of my list. Anyway, it makes for interesting conversation.