Lammycat Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 Is anyone debating that charging the mound is, generally, lame? I don't think so. The reason he charged the mound (the intentional beaning when there was no purpose to the beaning) is more the issue, to me at least. Link to post Share on other sites
MattZ Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 We are arguing whether Youkilis charging the mound was lame. It was. Link to post Share on other sites
caliber66 Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 I don't think the pitch that hit Cabrera was intentional, but it doesn't matter. If teams are going to pitch him inside and he's going to get hit, then they need to let teams know that their best hitter will also get hit. That if you are going to pitch inside and hit our player, intentionally or not, these are the consequences. Yeah, here is where we disagree. If your player keeps getting hit because he can't get out of the way of legitimate inside pitches, then the way you protect him is by teaching him how to avoid getting hit, or by getting him a piece of armor (which Cabrera has, because he knows he stands out over the plate and gets hit a lot). It's why Youkilis wears one, also. I've always worked under the assumption that's what "protecting" means. It's kind of stupid because it hurts your chances of winning the game, but it is what it is, and I don't have a problem with it. In fact, as much as I dislike it as a competitive strategy, I want my team to do it when Hanley gets hit. I'm not saying if Jeremy Hermida gets hit you have to throw at the other team's player, but yeah, other teams need to know they should shy away from pitching my guy inside. It's also a competitive strategy because concievably, you are getting your guy better pitches to hit.There are ways of getting that message across other than drilling someone in the middle of the back. Link to post Share on other sites
bobbob1313 Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 So I'm assuming you have a problem with this in all cases, right? Link to post Share on other sites
caliber66 Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 So I'm assuming you have a problem with this in all cases, right?You are correct that I have a problem with pitchers hitting other batters in all cases where the pitchers are "protecting" batters who got hit because they could not get out of the way of inside pitches that would not have hit them if they did not stand over the plate on two consecutive nights of a baseball series. Yes. Link to post Share on other sites
bobbob1313 Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 So you don't have a problem with throwing at hitters in a vacuum? Link to post Share on other sites
caliber66 Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 Sure I do. You must not have been reading my posts. I don't have a problem with pitchers retaliating for intentional beanings, even though I think it's kind of stupid. Link to post Share on other sites
bobbob1313 Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 So just this specific instance, right? Link to post Share on other sites
caliber66 Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 I don't understand the question, and I think I've explained my thoughts on this situation, and intentional HBPs in general, pretty well. Link to post Share on other sites
Winston Legthigh Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 If that was a tackle by Porcello then that really is a feral cat on Youkilis' face.Youkilis ended up on his back with Porcello on top of him. That's a takedown worth 5 points in wrestling. Link to post Share on other sites
jenbobblehead Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 I would like to see more mound charging. Fights are part of the game too. sometimes really great baseball is played after a blow up. i'm all for that. That said, I'm not positive that Youks was hit on purpose, and certainly the Tigers pitcher looked damn surprised to see Youk and his feral cat lumbering up on him. The idea that baseball is somehow immune to acts of rage and anger is not realistic. Link to post Share on other sites
bjorn_skurj Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 People get way too bent out of shape over HBPs. It's part of the game. Man up.Well, if they do that, then they are thought to be wussy. Will David Wright now have to hold a press conference to announce he's not gay? Link to post Share on other sites
Sir Stewart Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 Youkilis charged because of the massacre in the Bronx and the ongoing Big Papi distraction. The Red Sox will now go on to win the World Series. Link to post Share on other sites
caliber66 Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 Youkilis ended up on his back with Porcello on top of him. That's a takedown worth 5 points in wrestling.How many points is it worth in baseball? Link to post Share on other sites
Sparky speaks Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 Jerry Remy was in the booth with Don and Eck for an inning. Said he is undergoing therapy for depression and gaining his strength from an infection he suffered after lung cancer surgery. Said he'll be back in the booth soon. Got a great reception from the crowd when they posted a shot of him in the booth on the centerfield screen. Link to post Share on other sites
jenbobblehead Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 Yup. I teared up. Link to post Share on other sites
The High Heat Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 The proper way to Link to post Share on other sites
KevinG Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 The proper way to That was hilarious. The proper way is not to charge the mound, but to run to the other teams Clubhouse and try to fight them. Link to post Share on other sites
Sweet Papa Crimbo Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 How were the Tigers "protecting" their player? The pitch that hit him (Cabrera) wasn't intentional. Youkilis doesn't crowd the plate. He gets selected for plunks because of his hitting. Throwing at guys is fine when it's called for (imo). This wasn't called for. You're right: no excuse to throw a helmet and yeah, of course it'll factor in to the suspension. If that was a tackle by Porcello then that really is a feral cat on Youkilis' face. I look to history for a pitcher's appropriate reaction to a douche charging the mound: Link to post Share on other sites
caliber66 Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 And this is why pitchers need to hit. For the record.Not trying to resurrect yesterday's discussion (not re: Tuesday's specific incident, anyway), but the "pitchers hitting as a deterrent to HBP" angle doesn't hold up, really. There's no discernible difference in HBP rates between the two leagues, and as we know, pitchers only bat in one league. AL, HBPs per game:2009 - .322008 - .362007 - .362006 - .352005 - .362004 - .40 NL, HBPs per game:2009 - .342008 - .332007 - .362006 - .402005 - .382004 - .36 Now, if you're suggesting that pitchers should hit because at least then the right person might be targeted for retaliation, then you may be onto something. Link to post Share on other sites
MattZ Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 Now, if you're suggesting that pitchers should hit because at least then the right person might be targeted for retaliation, then you may be onto something. Yeah, that's what I meant. Link to post Share on other sites
caliber66 Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 Yeah, but it seems to me that it doesn't work that way much in the NL either. Generally if it's a batter getting hit on one team, the other team is going to take out another batter, not the pitcher. I have no evidence to back up this claim, however. Link to post Share on other sites
MattZ Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 I think you are right, in general. I think pitchers are often considered off limits. But still, depending on how egregious the situation is, it at least plants a seed in the pitcher's head. Speaking of, I'll never forget when Clemens came back to Shea after the Piazza incident in the World series, and Torre rearranged the rotation so that Clemens didn't pitch that series. MAN UP. And then, I will never forget the following year, when Clemens DID pitch, and Shawn Fucking Estes threw at Clemens' knees and missed. I think everyone should send vibes to Mets fans. Link to post Share on other sites
MattZ Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 Also, as a corrollary to my "pitchers should hit" rule, there should also be a rule that hitters cannot wear protective gear. What is fair, is fair. Link to post Share on other sites
bleedorange Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 Also, as a corrollary to my "pitchers should hit" rule, there should also be a rule that hitters cannot wear protective gear. What is fair, is fair. I'm with you on the protective gear. But, I've got to be honest, I would just rather see a DH in both leagues at this point. You grow up with a DH in high school and college and the NL is still hanging on to this antiquated notion. Get some power into the lineup. Double switches are overrated anyway. Link to post Share on other sites
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