NFL '09

[bleedorange]

You are out of your mind. He could be done now and get in no problem.

 

No way. He's played 8.5 seasons for a team that has not been that great (3 playoff appearances in his tenure). One Defensive Player of the Year Award at this point. If he had huge sack totals, that would be one thing (which you don't need to get in, but he would over a short career if it ended today), but I think he needs to put together another 3-4 really good years before he'll get serious consideration. And I don't think he'll be able to.

 

There are 19 linebackers in the Hall of Fame. He is not in the top 20 of all time.

[bobbob1313]

Zach Thomas was far more underrated than Brian Urlacher. That is all.

[bobbob1313]

There are 19 linebackers in the Hall of Fame. He is not in the top 20 of all time.

 

This is a good point, only because I didn't realize how few of them are in. A guy who was a great player for 8 and a half years is not a hall of famer. Especially if he was never a transcendent, position defining player like, say Ray Lewis.

[Guest Jules]

No way. He's played 8.5 seasons for a team that has not been that great (3 playoff appearances in his tenure). One Defensive Player of the Year Award at this point. If he had huge sack totals, that would be one thing (which you don't need to get in, but he would over a short career if it ended today), but I think he needs to put together another 3-4 really good years before he'll get serious consideration. And I don't think he'll be able to.

 

There are 19 linebackers in the Hall of Fame. He is not in the top 20 of all time.

OK, we disagree. The number of linebackers in the Hall is a good point, but he's still in.

 

The lack of sacks is indicative of the type of defense they run, which does not call for him to sack the quarterback. He should have won at least 1 other player of the year.

 

And I would say Urlacher was just as much a "transcendent, position defining player" as Ray Lewis. He's also twice the player Singletary ever was and hasn't had much of a line in front of him during his career.

[MattZ]

As an impartial observer of this argument, I must say that the "Urlacher is overrated" camp is beating the "Urlacher is a first ballot hall of famer" camp. Come on, Jules.

[Guest Jules]

As an impartial observer of this argument, I must say that the "Urlacher is overrated" camp is beating the "Urlacher is a first ballot hall of famer" camp. Come on, Jules.

My vote carries more weight, though.

[Guest Runaway Jim]

No way. He's played 8.5 seasons for a team that has not been that great (3 playoff appearances in his tenure). One Defensive Player of the Year Award at this point. If he had huge sack totals, that would be one thing (which you don't need to get in, but he would over a short career if it ended today), but I think he needs to put together another 3-4 really good years before he'll get serious consideration. And I don't think he'll be able to.

 

There are 19 linebackers in the Hall of Fame. He is not in the top 20 of all time.

 

Why is 8.5 seasons too few? Jim Brown played 9. Gale Sayers played 6 (really 5).

 

While winning is obviously the ultimate goal, I don't think it's an issue for a Middle Linebacker. Not like it is for a QB. His team made a SB appearance, He's been to 6 Pro Bowls, voted a 1st Team All Pro 4 times, and was the Defensive Player of the Year once. Pretty impressive.

 

Also, I am nearly positive that Brian Urlacher is the active leader in sacks for a Middle Linebacker.

[Guest Jules]

Also, I am nearly positive that Brian Urlacher is the active leader in sacks for a Middle Linebacker.

More than Ray Lewis has in his 13 years.

[Winston Legthigh]

Not a HOFer, so far.

 

Of his 8.5 years, he's only made 4 1st all pro teams, but didn't make the 2nd team once. That means he's been a premier LB for only half of his career.

 

If he gets in, Zach Thomas (5 1st team, 2 2nd team) would have to get in as well, and he's not getting in.

 

Singletary was Defensive player of the year twice, 8x 1st team, 1 2nd team, and has a ring.

[bleedorange]

I almost thought twice about including the sacks comment because I knew it would get blown out of proportion. My point is that if he had huge sack numbers in his relatively short career, that would definitely help him. But in no way do I think his sack numbers have any negative affect on his candidacy.

 

And are you really comparing Brian Urlacher to Jim Brown and Gale Sayers?

 

For a middle linebacker to get in, he has to be a transcendent player or the leader of a transcendent defense (Singletary and Harry Carson serve as the best examples here). He has been neither. He's a very good player and maybe even a great one. But if his career ended with this injury, he would not get in and would barely garner much support.

 

Further, if Urlacher were to get in, it would definitely not be on the first ballot. It took Andre Tippett nearly a decade to get in and he was a guy with 100 sacks , 5 all-pro appearances, and selection to the 80s all-decade team.

[bobbob1313]

Why is 8.5 seasons too few? Jim Brown played 9. Gale Sayers played 6 (really 5).

 

Jim Brown was kind of the first great running back and he averaged like a billion yards per carry.

 

Sayers' records include most touchdowns in a rookie season (22 in 1965), most touchdowns in a game (6, tied with Nevers and Jones), highest career kickoff return average (30.56), most kickoff return touchdowns (6, tied with four other players) and most return touchdowns in a game (2, tied with many players).

 

Sayers was, by all accounts, one of the most unbelievably talented players ever. He also holds the record for highest percentage of returns for a touchdown. He was stupid good.

 

I'll just say I hope Jules is as adamant or more about Jason Taylor being a HOFer.

[Guest Runaway Jim]

For the record, I don't think Brian Urlacher will get into the HoF if his career ends today. Probably not much of a chance.

 

But he should. No doubt in my mind. He's had an amazing career. And it goes far beyond the stats, especially since defensive stats don't hold nearly as much weight as offensive stats. Or they're not as clear-cut, maybe.

 

And I obviously wasn't comparing Urlacher to Jim Brown in terms of performance. I was simply making a case for 8.5 years being a long enough career in the NFL to warrant HoF consideration.

 

Either way, I'd rather just get to see Urlacher play some more and win some games with the Bears than see him ever elected to the HoF.

[Guest Runaway Jim]

I'll just say I hope Jules is as adamant or more about Jason Taylor being a HOFer.

 

Without a doubt. He was likely the most dominant player at his position in his era. Also 13th in career sacks.

 

But I think it's easier for someone to say Jason Taylor deserves a HoF nod over Urlacher because Taylor's statistical categories of importance are far more clear cut. He's a DE so obviously Sacks is the stat of importance.

[bleedorange]

For the record, I don't think Brian Urlacher will get into the HoF if his career ends today. Probably not much of a chance.

 

But he should. No doubt in my mind. He's had an amazing career. And it goes far beyond the stats, especially since defensive stats don't hold nearly as much weight as offensive stats. Or they're not as clear-cut, maybe.

 

And I obviously wasn't comparing Urlacher to Jim Brown in terms of performance. I was simply making a case for 8.5 years being a long enough career in the NFL to warrant HoF consideration.

 

Either way, I'd rather just get to see Urlacher play some more and win some games with the Bears than see him ever elected to the HoF.

 

You don't need a long career, as long as you're a once-in-a-lifetime type player, that's why I think the comparison holds no weight. I would be surprised if anyone would try to make that case with Urlacher. It's why Terrell Davis will never see the Hall.

[MattZ]

What about Junior Seau?

[bleedorange]

What about Junior Seau?

 

He has a much better chance than Urlacher. He'll be an interesting case, but I think he would eventually get in.

[Guest Runaway Jim]

You don't need a long career, as long as you're a once-in-a-lifetime type player, that's why I think the comparison holds no weight. I would be surprised if anyone would try to make that case with Urlacher. It's why Terrell Davis will never see the Hall.

 

That's a fair point.

 

You're still wrong about Urlacher though.

 

What about Junior Seau?

 

Yes

[Guest Jules]

I almost thought twice about including the sacks comment because I knew it would get blown out of proportion. My point is that if he had huge sack numbers in his relatively short career, that would definitely help him. But in no way do I think his sack numbers have any negative affect on his candidacy.

 

And are you really comparing Brian Urlacher to Jim Brown and Gale Sayers?

 

For a middle linebacker to get in, he has to be a transcendent player or the leader of a transcendent defense (Singletary and Harry Carson serve as the best examples here). He has been neither. He's a very good player and maybe even a great one. But if his career ended with this injury, he would not get in and would barely garner much support.

 

Further, if Urlacher were to get in, it would definitely not be on the first ballot. It took Andre Tippett nearly a decade to get in and he was a guy with 100 sacks , 5 all-pro appearances, and selection to the 80s all-decade team.

Well written, yet still wrong.

 

 

I'll just say I hope Jules is as adamant or more about Jason Taylor being a HOFer.

Different positions, but yes Taylor's in. They're on the same level. You could argue Urlacher should have won player of the year when Taylor won (2006), which would have given him 2 years in a row.

 

But I think it's easier for someone to say Jason Taylor deserves a HoF nod over Urlacher because Taylor's statistical categories of importance are far more clear cut. He's a DE so obviously Sacks is the stat of importance.

Not easier for me. They're in the same boat.

 

And yes Seau should get in as well.

[bobbob1313]

Different positions, but yes Taylor's in. They're on the same level. You could argue Urlacher should have won player of the year when Taylor won (2006), which would have given him 2 years in a row.

 

That would be a really silly argument to make, though. Like, really silly. I'm not sure people realize just how dominant Taylor was during that season. 11 passes defended, 9 forced fumbles, 2 fumble recoveries, 62 total tackles, 2 picks, 2 TD's 13.5 sacks. Just silliness all year long. Sorry, Jules.

[Guest Jules]

That would be a really silly argument to make, though. Like, really silly. I'm not sure people realize just how dominant Taylor was during that season. 11 passes defended, 9 forced fumbles, 2 fumble recoveries, 62 total tackles, 2 picks, 2 TD's 13.5 sacks. Just silliness all year long. Sorry, Jules.

Yeah, I know, you're right. He was great that year. I still remember watching the game he had in Chicago. Dominated completely.

 

People did argue for Urlacher though. Probably local reporters.

[explodo]

Didn't mean to start a war here. What I meant by my comment, given the preceding context ("defenses will be good"), was that the Bears D is not Urlacher and Urlacher alone as it is often made out to be.

 

 

He is overrated in general, too, now that the subject has been broached. No way he goes first ballot.

[bobbob1313]

He is overrated in general, too, now that the subject has been broached. No way he goes first ballot.

 

Well, wouldn't the fact that he's overrated lend itself to the first ballotness?

[bleedorange]

Young surprises McNair's sons

 

I'll always love VY

[Guest Jules]

 

FOX411 EXCLUSIVE: Kendra Wikinson upset over Hank Baskett's axing

[rareair]

Young surprises McNair's sons

 

I'll always love VY

 

definitely a good move by VY.

 

If he wins the titans a superbowl as confetti rains down on him, i may share your overall enthusiasm.