The Grateful Dead

[worldrecordplayer]

my sense is that the heads were always gracious and accepted vince. damn, there were always cheers for his tunes.

We must have been at different shows Long Long Long Long Way to Go Home? I don't know about that.

[Lammycat]

Vince was really different from Brent in his style. I didn't mind Vince, for the most part, but he didn't come close to what Brent brought to and meant for the band. Long, Long Way had room for a nice Garcia jam in there, I didn't mind Samba in the Rain, etc. The cover of All Too Much with Vince singing lead was excellent, as was the Baba-?Tomorrow Only Knows. Overall, he was decent enough but on the bottom as far as relevance in the history of the band, imo.

 

I met Vince a few times when he'd play in town here and he was always a nice guy and I liked his solo/Missing Man stuff. I think he got railroaded by the band, in the end, too....

[Shug]

I know why some Heads felt that Brent was moody, angry, or had a dark spirit (dropping f-bombs in Never Trust A Woman and Little Red Rooster and the singing stuff like "this song's my last song for you, bitch") and there is some truth to that, but overall I felt a lot of passion and exhuberence and soulfulness from his music. I can see how it was not everyone's cup of tea, but I think he was really loved by many Heads. Tons of Steel is my fave Brent tune, just killer. And his vocals on Gimme Some Lovin', how he blended with Phil, were fantastic, IMO.

 

Vince, on the other hand, was really just a tragic bummer for me. If you dig around, you can get the whole story, but the Dead put almost no effort into choosing Brent's replacement, taking Vince just because he had a high voice. Apparently he played some good sounding keyboards in the Tubes but in the Dead, Bob Bralove (keyboard tech) was the one whose idea it was to use one keyboard with all digitized tones, so I partly blame Bralove for what I thought was Vince's god-awful keyboard sounds. He also was not known to be a soloist and when Hornsby was sitting in, Vince had very little space in the overall sound to do his own thing and frankly, IMO, he was vastly overshadowed by the brilliance of Hornsby's virtuosity. Having Hornsby as Brent's full time, permanent, and sole replacement in the Dead would've be a dream come true for me. No disrespect to the man, but I hated Vince's singing and keyboard playing and songwriting and he was far more depressed and negative than Brent ever was, IMO. The story of Vince's decline and eventual suicide after Jerry's death is extremely tragic, far worse than Brent's accidental overdose. There is probably blame to be shared by many for what happened to Vince after Jerry's death, but from what I have read, a lot of his tragedy was due to his own emotional instability/illness and his own choices in response to that stuff. Its sad, but true.

 

I agree with worldrecordplayer, 9-20-90 and 9-19-90, largely due to Hornsby's playing and his impact on Jerry, along with very inventive setlists, are definitely contenders for the two best shows after the Brent years, and they are really really good. Check 'em out.

[jw harding]

Lot's of great stuff on Brent and other keyboard players, so can't respond to it all. I will add that if you read the Dead Essays blog, very little thought was given to choosing Keith's replacement. Brent just happened to be in the right place at the right time. With Vince, the Dead did want someone who could sing the high harmonies, think Richard Manuel of The Band.

 

I think Garcia's comments on Brent after his death say quite a bit about his personality that a number of people have picked up on here:

 

Brent had a deeply self-destructive streak. He didn't have much supporting him in terms of an intellectual life. I mean, I owe a lot of who I am and what I've been and what I've done to the beatniks from the Fifties and to the poetry and art and music I've come in contact with. I feel like I'm part of a continuous line in American culture, of a root. But Brent was from the East Bay, which is one of those places that is like

non

culture. There's nothing there. There's no substance, no background. And Brent wasn't a reader, and he hadn't really been introduced to the world of ideas on any level. So a certain part of him was like a guy in a rat cage, running as fast as he could and not getting anywhere. He didn't have any deeper resources.

My life would be miserable if I didn't have those little chunks of Dylan Thomas and T.S. Eliot. I can't even imagine life without that stuff.

[Vacant Horizon]

We must have been at different shows Long Long Long Long Way to Go Home? I don't know about that.

 

LOL! how about...Samba in the Rain Baby Samba in the Raaaaain.

 

yeah he was more of a pop dude than brent. kind of a weird choice. i don't know why they didn't just hire some studio guy to sit in and play piano. at the end his tunes had been played way too much. i did like way to go home though. that bridge was awesome.

[Vacant Horizon]

I know why some Heads felt that Brent was moody, angry, or had a dark spirit (dropping f-bombs in Never Trust A Woman and Little Red Rooster and the singing stuff like "this song's my last song for you, bitch") and there is some truth to that, but overall I felt a lot of passion and exhuberence and soulfulness from his music. I can see how it was not everyone's cup of tea, but I think he was really loved by many Heads. Tons of Steel is my fave Brent tune, just killer. And his vocals on Gimme Some Lovin', how he blended with Phil, were fantastic, IMO.

 

Vince, on the other hand, was really just a tragic bummer for me. If you dig around, you can get the whole story, but the Dead put almost no effort into choosing Brent's replacement, taking Vince just because he had a high voice. Apparently he played some good sounding keyboards in the Tubes but in the Dead, Bob Bralove (keyboard tech) was the one whose idea it was to use one keyboard with all digitized tones, so I partly blame Bralove for what I thought was Vince's god-awful keyboard sounds. He also was not known to be a soloist and when Hornsby was sitting in, Vince had very little space in the overall sound to do his own thing and frankly, IMO, he was vastly overshadowed by the brilliance of Hornsby's virtuosity. Having Hornsby as Brent's full time, permanent, and sole replacement in the Dead would've be a dream come true for me. No disrespect to the man, but I hated Vince's singing and keyboard playing and songwriting and he was far more depressed and negative than Brent ever was, IMO. The story of Vince's decline and eventual suicide after Jerry's death is extremely tragic, far worse than Brent's accidental overdose. There is probably blame to be shared by many for what happened to Vince after Jerry's death, but from what I have read, a lot of his tragedy was due to his own emotional instability/illness and his own choices in response to that stuff. Its sad, but true.

 

I agree with worldrecordplayer, 9-20-90 and 9-19-90, largely due to Hornsby's playing and his impact on Jerry, along with very inventive setlists, are definitely contenders for the two best shows after the Brent years, and they are really really good. Check 'em out.

 

i know some of that story, but would like to hear more details. i can see how the boys didn't give a shit in getting a new keys guy. jerry was exhausted. didn't know Bralove was involved with vince's sound. it was pretty bad and at times way to high in the mix. i didn't let it get in the way of enjoying shows though. bruce would've been a great replacement, but he had his own cheese ball ideas. too bad. those shows with him in 90-91 were interesting if at times a bit sloppy and muddy. i loved hearing stander and valley road in the first set and bruce singing on jack straw.

[Lammycat]

Lot's of great stuff on Brent and other keyboard players, so can't respond to it all. I will add that if you read the Dead Essays blog, very little thought was given to choosing Keith's replacement. Brent just happened to be in the right place at the right time. With Vince, the Dead did want someone who could sing the high harmonies, think Richard Manuel of The Band.

 

I think Garcia's comments on Brent after his death say quite a bit about his personality that a number of people have picked up on here:

 

Brent had a deeply self-destructive streak. He didn't have much supporting him in terms of an intellectual life. I mean, I owe a lot of who I am and what I've been and what I've done to the beatniks from the Fifties and to the poetry and art and music I've come in contact with. I feel like I'm part of a continuous line in American culture, of a root. But Brent was from the East Bay, which is one of those places that is like

non

culture. There's nothing there. There's no substance, no background. And Brent wasn't a reader, and he hadn't really been introduced to the world of ideas on any level. So a certain part of him was like a guy in a rat cage, running as fast as he could and not getting anywhere. He didn't have any deeper resources.

My life would be miserable if I didn't have those little chunks of Dylan Thomas and T.S. Eliot. I can't even imagine life without that stuff.

Brent had played w/ (been in) Bobby and the Midnights, as well as Go Ahead w/Kreutzman. So he did have an "in," as they say. Yeah, I've heard the Garcia interview before on Brent and was aware he wasn't really an "artsy" guy and had some demons (who didn't in the band?), but even though he sang often of scorned love, etc. I always got the sense he was just a shy guy at the end of the day. Regardless, I dug the hell out of his passion when he sang, as well as his playing. Some shows I'd like to just hang on his side and check him out for the night....

 

I sat next him for a couple drinks after a New Orleans GD show in '88 at a bar and he was really reserved, shy, meek almost. I remember him getting a kick out of me asking him off the bat: "you get into the show tonight?" Had a great laugh or 3 with him that night on Bourbon St....

[Shug]

Lot's of great stuff on Brent and other keyboard players, so can't respond to it all. I will add that if you read the Dead Essays blog, very little thought was given to choosing Keith's replacement. Brent just happened to be in the right place at the right time.

 

That is true, and funnily enough, the same is true for Keith "replacing" Pigpen as the main keyboard player. The story goes Keith just kept showing up and basically announced that he wanted to be the new keyboard player and they said "OK". Apparently they used the same laizze faire approach to selecting new members throughout their career. From my perspective, they got lucky with Keith and Brent and Hornsby, not so lucky with Vince. At least with Brent, they knew what they were getting since he had been playing with Bobby's side band for awhile.

[Lammycat]

Story that I've heard goes that Keith and Donna met JG after a show (after Pig had recently died) and Donna (Keith being too shy) told Garcia that Keith was going to be the new GD piano/keys guy. I think Keith knew Betty Cantor at the time, too, so Garcia allowed him to audition....

[jw harding]

Pig was still alive when Keith joined, and later Donna. See Europe 72, Pig's last real tour.

 

Grateful Dead keyboardist preference and their tragic demise is great message board fodder.

 

Anyone care to share their feelings on Tom Constaten?

[Lammycat]

Oh shit, right.

[worldrecordplayer]

I agree with worldrecordplayer, 9-20-90 and 9-19-90, largely due to Hornsby's playing and his impact on Jerry, along with very inventive setlists, are definitely contenders for the two best shows after the Brent years, and they are really really good. Check 'em out.

I was fortunate to be at the 9-20-90 show, sitting about 13th row dead center. I saw a good number of GD shows going back to '74, and that second set was the the single best set I ever saw live. Or maybe equal to 8-6-74 Roosevelt Stadium second set, but you get my drift. Big chunks of that September '90 MSG run, including most of 9-20 second set, is available as a Road Trips release.

[Shug]

i know some of that story, but would like to hear more details. i can see how the boys didn't give a shit in getting a new keys guy. jerry was exhausted. didn't know Bralove was involved with vince's sound. it was pretty bad and at times way to high in the mix. i didn't let it get in the way of enjoying shows though.

 

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/06/30/DDG12JM4F61.DTL&ao=all

 

Disturbing stuff, no doubt. My opinions about his music don't have anything to do with feeling bad about his personal problems. I truly hope he's resting in peace or reincarnated into a happier life or whatever happens after we die.

[IRememberDBoon]

they should have stopped for AT LEAST one year when Brent died. I know it affected Jerry greatly and I think being a 19 year old it affected me subconciously for sure. You cant just write people off

[calvino]

they should have stopped for AT LEAST one year when Brent died. I know it affected Jerry greatly and I think being a 19 year old it affected me subconciously for sure. You cant just write people off

 

Well, bills had to be paid (I think the tour was already booked). Musically they were on a roll, too (89-90). I see you point, but I don't think that was even considered. Lastly, late 90 and 91 and some great shows, so I happy they didn't take a year off. If you think it would helped Garcia (health wise), I think you are sadly mistaken. They should have taken some time off in 94 and 95.

[IRememberDBoon]

i actually think Jerry was sober in 89 and 90. see: hawaiian scuba diving

 

I think the death of Brent and then just moving on triggered him into a relapse.

 

I can show you video where he is obviously sober compared to the rest of the 80s

[calvino]

i actually think Jerry was sober in 89 and 90. see: hawaiian scuba diving

 

I think the death of Brent and then just moving on triggered him into a relapse.

 

I can show you video where he is obviously sober compared to the rest of the 80s

 

I didn't mean to imply that he wasn't sober, I just meant - I don't think Brent's death (or not taking time off in 90 and 91) caused his future health issues/relapse ---- but obviously I have no idea. Unfortunately a junkie is a junkie, I don't mean to be so blunt, but it is what it is.

 

 

Regarding Dave's Pick 2, I enjoy it and I think it sounds okay. For some reason out of the 68-74 years, 74 is my least favorite. It probably has more to do with the sound of the shows, rather than the playing. I am hoping for a 71 show next or a 68 show.

[IRememberDBoon]

im an opiate junkie and i can tell you that like jeff tweedy or trey anastasio either you are using or you arent using and there are months + years in between the two.

 

so much healing has to take place that unless youve been down that path you have zero idea. and be glad you do

 

im just pissed that jay bennett and brent mydland couldnt get past it.

 

things are better nowadays than they were then and its a matter of making up your mind now.

 

 

you have to want to stop getting high and getting high feels better than life

[IRememberDBoon]

how bout this UNofficial trailer??

 

[IRememberDBoon]

one of his first sober solos out of rehab

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IpglVGT2ZB4&feature=related

[IRememberDBoon]

so beautiful and so glad to have Trey alive.

 

 

Trey Anastasio addresses over 3,600 Drug Court professionals during the closing ceremony of the National Association of Drug Court Professionals 17th Annual Drug Court Training Conference in Washington, DC

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4zhGYRXxUk&feature=endscreen&NR=1

[HungryHippo]

Thanks for the recommendations, worldrecordplayer! Will be sure to check out these shows.

 

Just watched Downhill From Here last night and really liked the Cumberland Blues with Brent. The guy did add a different element to the band which is evident in this rendition. And seeing Jerry's smile during the opening notes of China Cat Sunflower totally made me break out the cheesy grin. Would love to see all three shows released on DVD at some point.

 

And on another note, just downloaded the 9/20/70 Fillmore East show. I think this is the best acoustic/electric show I've yet to hear.

[Vacant Horizon]

well said about addiction.

 

the jerry book by blair seems to indicate that jerry thrived in the JGB and Grisman context. would've been cool if he could've stayed with this and chilled out with dead a while. i for one was totally exhausted when jerry died. it was like i finally had a legitimate reason to not tour. i kind of got really crazy about it all seeing as many shows i could etc. i'm still that way about concerts, but i'm getting better. the wall is coming through town and although i feel like i should go, i really don't want to. goofy, i know

 

i would've loved to see the boys just do one east coast and one west coast run a year. or just JGB shows.

[calvino]

And on another note, just downloaded the 9/20/70 Fillmore East show. I think this is the best acoustic/electric show I've yet to hear.

 

A 70 acoustic/electric release would be great, too. (the next Dave's Pick)

[Moss]

So I just read in Rolling Stone that they are releasing 1000's of Owsley "Bear" Stanley recordings that have been sitting in a vault all this time. Everything from the Dead to Jefferson Airplane, Janis, Miles Davis, Johnny Cash. Anybody know anything about this? Are these new and previously unavailable shows? Curious to see what comes out of this.