LouieB Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 Thanks Obama.....now Americans can't even tell what year stuff happened. LouieB Link to post Share on other sites
KevinG Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 Roger Ailes' wet dream - managing the message It is the same thing that we have been discussing with the Iraq War and the eventual troop withdrawal. A failure to fully understand what the Bush administration did to get us into the war. Or even to acknowledge that it was an ill conceived, ill planned. And further to see the troop withdrawal was the plan of the Bush Administration. Instead the problems that we are facing in the Mid-East is really the fault of the Obama administration. History doesn't matter it is only the message. Link to post Share on other sites
Doctor B Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 I get the Bush bashing. His administrations, advisors, etc. screwed it up. On the other hand, who knows what the middle east would be like now. No way to predict. All history is fluid and what a leader inherits, though not his "fault" is his responsibility to deal with effectively. How many people on this board are willing to give Nixon a pass on Vietnam? He did not cause that disaster but he gets destroyed on his conduct all the time. In fact, one could take the middle east issue back to the British after WW 1. They laid the groundwork for a lot of misery today. The point is that Obama inherited a mess but he has done a horrible job at managing the issues. The world is less safe with his policies. The West is at war with radical Islam. Unfortunately, only Islam is aware of that. Link to post Share on other sites
Winston Legthigh Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 The point is that Obama inherited a mess but he has done a horrible job at managing the issues. The world is less safe with his policies. Is "less safe" quantifiable? Link to post Share on other sites
Doctor B Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 Doubtful. Neither is "safer". Link to post Share on other sites
Hixter Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 Is "less safe" quantifiable?Obama and Hillary Clinton famously touted their "reset" in relations with Russia. Fast-forward a few years and Russia has invaded Ukraine and they are threatening other republics. Putin thumbs his nose at us on a regular basis and Russian bombers and subs are skirting our borders for the first time since the end of the Cold War. Libya was home to a weirdo dictator who was essentially contained. Now it's a chaotic mess of anarchy. The Obama administration touted Iraq as one of its greatest achievements only a few years ago. Now large swathes of it are being held by ISIS and thousands of American troops are back in Iraq. Our aircraft are bombing ISIS, but not having much of an impact. Syria is a mess. ISIS, Islamist militias, Assad and Iran -- a recipe for disaster. And as tens of thousands of refugees flee to Europe, it's almost a certainty that there are plenty of ISIS supporters/fighters among them. Lots of trouble for Europe in the near future. ISIS is now in Afghanistan. They've promised to attack Americans as they pull out. Once we're gone it's easy to imagine the country descending into Iraq-style chaos. We lost about 650 troops during a little more than 7 years of war with Bush at the helm. We've lost 1700 since Obama took charge of the war. China is the real reason for concern. Their aggressive actions in the Pacific and on the hacking front are practically a prelude to war. Their military is modernizing and expanding at a remarkable rate. Bad, bad things are in store. And Iran will soon have atomic weapons and its neighbors will seek weapons of their own. Yeah, I'd call us "less safe." Link to post Share on other sites
Winston Legthigh Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 Doubtful. Neither is "safer".OK, then let's make neither statement. They both sound stupid, and are something only a politician would say.Obama and Hillary Clinton famously touted their "reset" in relations with Russia. Fast-forward a few years and Russia has invaded Ukraine and they are threatening other republics. Putin thumbs his nose at us on a regular basis and Russian bombers and subs are skirting our borders for the first time since the end of the Cold War. Libya was home to a weirdo dictator who was essentially contained. Now it's a chaotic mess of anarchy. The Obama administration touted Iraq as one of its greatest achievements only a few years ago. Now large swathes of it are being held by ISIS and thousands of American troops are back in Iraq. Our aircraft are bombing ISIS, but not having much of an impact. Syria is a mess. ISIS, Islamist militias, Assad and Iran -- a recipe for disaster. And as tens of thousands of refugees flee to Europe, it's almost a certainty that there are plenty of ISIS supporters/fighters among them. Lots of trouble for Europe in the near future. ISIS is now in Afghanistan. They've promised to attack Americans as they pull out. Once we're gone it's easy to imagine the country descending into Iraq-style chaos. We lost about 650 troops during a little more than 7 years of war with Bush at the helm. We've lost 1700 since Obama took charge of the war. China is the real reason for concern. Their aggressive actions in the Pacific and on the hacking front are practically a prelude to war. Their military is modernizing and expanding at a remarkable rate. Bad, bad things are in store. And Iran will soon have atomic weapons and its neighbors will seek weapons of their own. Yeah, I'd call us "less safe."Mission Accomplished© Somehow we're less safe, thanks to Obama, even though the worst attack on US soil happened while "The Decider" was in office. Oh how the fear-mongers wail when a Dem is in office, yet bite their tongues when the GOP runs things. Link to post Share on other sites
John Smith Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 I get the Bush bashing. His administrations, advisors, etc. screwed it up. On the other hand, who knows what the middle east would be like now. No way to predict.I beg to differ, many experts predicted just this sort of chaos in the Mid East before the invasion. They may not have predicted ISIS specifically but they did predict sectarian chaos once the powers that be were removed. You can read things like this going back into the 90's. The problem with the bush admin is that they ignored people like this completely. Link to post Share on other sites
Doctor B Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 My point is that all Presidents,by definition,inherit policies,situations,world events, etc. that they did not create. How they deal with them and their success is how me measure them. Continuing to say that everything was Bush's fault does not solve the problem or absolve the president of criticism or failure. Link to post Share on other sites
Winston Legthigh Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 Continuing to say that everything was Bush's fault does not solve the problem or absolve the president of criticism or failure. I agree with that, and I'm not an Obama defender. The Middle East was a shitshow before he turned up, and it's still a shitshow now. Link to post Share on other sites
Hixter Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 Somehow we're less safe, thanks to Obama, even though the worst attack on US soil happened while "The Decider" was in office.Well, if we were to use President Obama's tactic of blaming his predecessor for his problems, we'd put the blame on Bill Clinton since the planning took place during his administration. If I recall correctly, the men who would fly the planes into the Pentagon and World Trade Center were already on American soil before Bush took office. Link to post Share on other sites
John Smith Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 It's not like the bush administration and their minions ever blamed anything on Clinton. Nope. It comes down to pinning the policy and results of the policy to the administration that advocated that policy. Link to post Share on other sites
Doug C Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 Politics 2015 Jeopardy Conservative commentator Ann Coulter pronounced it "the greatest political document since the Magna Carta." Link to post Share on other sites
KevinG Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 Politics 2015 Jeopardy Conservative commentator Ann Coulter pronounced it "the greatest political document since the Magna Carta." What is the Contract with America? Link to post Share on other sites
Doug C Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 Incorrect, Kevin. Link to post Share on other sites
Winston Legthigh Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 Incorrect, Kevin.I cheated and looked it up. Sick. Link to post Share on other sites
uncool2pillow Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 I cheated and looked it up. Sick.Me too. But she's more a shock jock than a pundit. Link to post Share on other sites
KevinG Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 Politics 2015 Jeopardy Conservative commentator Ann Coulter pronounced it "the greatest political document since the Magna Carta."[/size]I just looked it up too, and Jesus. I hate to ruin the game, but the entire plan is so stupid and unrealistic. But perfect for the far right. It sounds good, but if you actually think about it, it will never work. Link to post Share on other sites
Winston Legthigh Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 I guess I would be OK for voting for Deez Nuts... Newscasters saying "Deez Nuts" Link to post Share on other sites
Hixter Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 I'm pretty sure that a presidential candidate has to be at least 35 years old, so Mr. Nuts can try again in 2035. Link to post Share on other sites
KevinG Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 I'm pretty sure that a presidential candidate has to be at least 35 years old, so Mr. Nuts can try again in 2035. With so many of the GOP candidates currently and openingly suggesting things that are directly against the constitution, surely this is only a minor hurdle for Deez Nuts. Link to post Share on other sites
Winston Legthigh Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 Knock KnockWho's There?Want Two CDs.Want Two CDs Who?Want To See Deez Nuts???? Link to post Share on other sites
Doug C Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 With so many of the GOP candidates currently and openingly suggesting things that are directly against the constitution, surely this is only a minor hurdle for Deez Nuts. Indeed. 2 colleagues and I were discussing Coulter's Magna Carta-fication of Trump's immigration plan. Not to fulfill the internet Nazi law but, we all talked about how it echoes the Gestapo when you analyze it. How are you going to deport 11 million people? First you need to identify them, which, if even possible, would require government surveillance aided by people reporting on their neighbors. Second, jackboots kicking doors down and dragging families away. Then we realized that there are many Americans, not just ignorant yahoos, but educated people, who would be okay with that. A collective chill ran down our spines. Link to post Share on other sites
LouieB Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 Undoing 150 years of US policy is a fairly steep slope. Of all the problems we have, dealing with this is a major distraction. LouieB Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Heartbreak Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 "...Impound all remittance payments derived from illegal wages."Trumpy, baby, how the hell is that feasible? We going to amass an army of a million new IRS agents to raid every restaurant, construction site and lawn care service in America?Talk about red meat.What a maroon. Link to post Share on other sites
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