calvino Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 Just how good is Jake Arrieta? NL Cy Young front runner. It is nice to have exciting baseball in September again in Chicago - hopefully it will keep on going through October. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Winston Legthigh Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 I always thought Yogi Berra came up with "It ain't over til the fat lady sings." Guess not: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/It_ain%27t_over_till_the_fat_lady_sings I'm older than that phrase! His best quote is "It's deja vu all over again." Rest in peace, Yogi! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Winston Legthigh Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 But that is not what I remember about him most. I remember most that the other ball players always complained that Yogi Berra would stand naked at the clubhouse buffet and scratch his genitals over the cold cuts. http://thestacks.deadspin.com/the-yankee-bullshitters-what-joe-d-yogi-and-mickey-w-625515798 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KevinG Posted September 28, 2015 Author Share Posted September 28, 2015 Got to see Jake Arrieta in person last night. And my goodness, I don't think there anyone better in all of baseball right now. His numbers from last night. 7 Innings Pitched1 Hit (which came in the 7th)9 Strike outs A ball did not get hit to the outfield until the 6th. And he hit a homerun! I read he has an ERA against the Pirates of 0.75. This is the Pirates not a bottom dwelling team like the Brewers. More impressively he has an ERA since the all-star break of 0.44. That is insane. Not only his he the obvious choice for Cy Young, there is some serious talk of him as MVP. I don't disagree. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The Inside of Outside Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 ^^^^^^Crazy good. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shakes Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 Got to see Jake Arrieta in person last night. And my goodness, I don't think there anyone better in all of baseball right now. His numbers from last night. 7 Innings Pitched1 Hit (which came in the 7th)9 Strike outs A ball did not get hit to the outfield until the 6th. And he hit a homerun! I read he has an ERA against the Pirates of 0.75. This is the Pirates not a bottom dwelling team like the Brewers. More impressively he has an ERA since the all-star break of 0.44. That is insane. Not only his he the obvious choice for Cy Young, there is some serious talk of him as MVP. I don't disagree. no, THAT is insane great year, great cy candidate (might be the closest vote in years, and i can see kershaw/greinke vote splitting working in arrietas favor), not mvp Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KevinG Posted September 29, 2015 Author Share Posted September 29, 2015 no, THAT is insane great year, great cy candidate (might be the closest vote in years, and i can see kershaw/greinke vote splitting working in arrietas favor), not mvp I guess it goes to what a most valuable player is. A guy who puts up big numbers on a team that underperformed and missed the playoffs (and gets choked by guys) ala Bryce Harper. I guess the top three un-insane candidates are Harper, Goldschmidt, and Posey. All three of them put up great numbers, but all three are not going to the playoffs. So were they valuable to their team? Without them on their respective teams would they have been significantly worse? If the award was called Best Player, I could see Arrieta not getting it. But it is called most valuable. This to me anyways means the guy who plays that you can't live without. The guy who makes the team, and the sport better. Without Arrieta, the Cubs do not make the playoffs. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shakes Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 yeah i dont buy the playoff argument at all. because bryce harper isnt also a relief pitcher and a manager and a first baseman and half a starting rotation his historic season (and it is historic, not merely big or great. when your statistical company is ruth, williams, bonds level, youve surpassed "big numbers") deserves nothing? the nats underachieved, no one can deny that, but harper singlehandedly kept them in it till the last month (and still kept trying as the rest of the team fell off a cliff), and if thats not an mvp why bother giving the award at all. never understood using other peoples performances to decide on an individual award. they already give a different trophy for team performance arrieta's great and the cubs are a great story in every baseball sense. take him away and theyre still in the playoffs. by your logic, not mvp worthy. take bryce harper away and the nats are lucky to sniff second place in a dreadful division, not a playoff spot. his weak teammates actually make his numbers more impressive, cuz he did it all with minimal protection at best. baseballs not a sport where one dude can do it all so i dont get why so many people still apply that logic to mvp voting your post is actually the first ive even seen of arrieta as a possible mvp candidate. im not opposed to pitchers as mvps, but i think it has to be in absence of a truly great offensive season, and thats not the case this year. people love to hate bryce harper, i get it, but discounting his season as not mvp worthy is absurd Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KevinG Posted September 29, 2015 Author Share Posted September 29, 2015 yeah i dont buy the playoff argument at all. because bryce harper isnt also a relief pitcher and a manager and a first baseman and half a starting rotation his historic season (and it is historic, not merely big or great. when your statistical company is ruth, williams, bonds level, youve surpassed "big numbers") deserves nothing? the nats underachieved, no one can deny that, but harper singlehandedly kept them in it till the last month (and still kept trying as the rest of the team fell off a cliff), and if thats not an mvp why bother giving the award at all. never understood using other peoples performances to decide on an individual award. they already give a different trophy for team performance arrieta's great and the cubs are a great story in every baseball sense. take him away and theyre still in the playoffs. by your logic, not mvp worthy. take bryce harper away and the nats are lucky to sniff second place in a dreadful division, not a playoff spot. his weak teammates actually make his numbers more impressive, cuz he did it all with minimal protection at best. baseballs not a sport where one dude can do it all so i dont get why so many people still apply that logic to mvp voting your post is actually the first ive even seen of arrieta as a possible mvp candidate. im not opposed to pitchers as mvps, but i think it has to be in absence of a truly great offensive season, and thats not the case this year. people love to hate bryce harper, i get it, but discounting his season as not mvp worthy is absurd You honestly have that backwards. Without Arrieta the Cubs are simply not in the playoffs. In the 21 games (BTW 21 freaking games) he has won the Cubs have only won by an average of 3.76 runs. Only 6 of the 21 have the Cubs won by 5 or more. Furthermore they won 12 of his games by 3 or less. The back end of the rotation and the bullpen are simply not going to to win all of those games. I firmly believe without Arrieta the Cubs do not get 10 of those wins. Which would mean the Giants would be in the playoffs, not the Cubs. I am not saying any player that does not make the playoffs doesn't deserve the MVP. But it has to be a consideration. And of course baseball is a team sport and you have to count the play of a team when talking about the performance of the a player, whether the team is good or bad. Arrieta is the product of some great defense and a handful of his wins etc, are the result of his team. But shouldn't that be part of it? When a guy is that dominant it lifts the team. They want to play hard, play better for him and the team. I know it is not is fault and Papelbon is a jerk, but an MVP candidate does not get choked by another teammate. Also in the last 7 games Harper has only hit .261 with 1 RBI and no home runs. Yes the Nats are out of it, but an MVP candidate does not give up, even if they are out of it. Harper did try to put the team on his back and had some great numbers to push the Nats, but recently, he is lackluster at best. Yes Harper had a great season, his numbers are great. But Arrieta's numbers are great as well. A .044 ERA since August. That is numbers that haven't been seen since the deadball era. The calls for an MVP for Arrieta really coming from the Chicago media and Joe Maddon himself. Admittedly Arrieta as MVP is a long shot and as a Cubs fan I am going to trumpet his greatness. The likelihood of him getting the MVP is slim. However what he is doing this season is pretty damn special, for himself, and the Cubs. He needs to be in the discussion for MVP. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
calvino Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 I agree, if Arrieta doesn't have a 21 Win season, the Cubs would not be in the playoffs and many would be talking a lot more Lester's poor season (at least in the W/L department). Next Wednesday, the Blackhawks will be hoisting another banner at the United Center and the Cubs will be playing in a playoff game -- great night for Chicago. (too bad they won't be playing at Wrigley or least most likely won't be) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shakes Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 And of course baseball is a team sport and you have to count the play of a team when talking about the performance of the a player, whether the team is good or bad. Arrieta is the product of some great defense and a handful of his wins etc, are the result of his team. But shouldn't that be part of it? When a guy is that dominant it lifts the team. They want to play hard, play better for him and the team. I know it is not is fault and Papelbon is a jerk, but an MVP candidate does not get choked by another teammate. if this is your reasoning for depriving harper im not even gonna bother arguing further. absolutely ridiculous. honestly one of the dumbest responses to sunday ive yet seen, and ive seen plenty of awful ones. you know its not his fault but youll use it to discredit his historic season anyway? arrieta's great. i remember him being mediocre in baltimore, and sudden success stories like his 2015 make baseball rgeat. its crazy that hes not a slam dunk for the cy young, which makes it even harder to argue him as an mvp candidate. as a surrogate pirates fan im not looking forward to the wild card game Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bleedorange Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 And of course baseball is a team sport and you have to count the play of a team when talking about the performance of the a player, whether the team is good or bad. Arrieta is the product of some great defense and a handful of his wins etc, are the result of his team. But shouldn't that be part of it? When a guy is that dominant it lifts the team. They want to play hard, play better for him and the team. I know it is not is fault and Papelbon is a jerk, but an MVP candidate does not get choked by another teammate. Also in the last 7 games Harper has only hit .261 with 1 RBI and no home runs. Yes the Nats are out of it, but an MVP candidate does not give up, even if they are out of it. Harper did try to put the team on his back and had some great numbers to push the Nats, but recently, he is lackluster at best. Terrible argument. You're saying that Harper hitting a few points higher than league average over a 7-game period is evidence of him giving up? You may be right, he only has a 1.336 OPS in September. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shakes Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 also pitcher wins are irrelevant. 20 is a nice round number but as a genuine barometer of a pitchers success wins mean nothing. ask shelby miller. and rbi's arent much more valid as individual stats. you cant drive in teammates who dont get on base for you Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Chez Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 Arrieta has been unbelievable. That said, I can't give the MVP award to a guy who appeared in 32 or 33 games. Unless there are no worthy position players (and this season there are a handful), I honestly have a hard time giving the MVP to a starting pitcher. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lammycat Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 I've got no problem giving an MVP to a pitcher, especially since it's gotten rarer for pitchers to receive the award. Papelbon was obviously out of line, particularly acting out in public, but Harper may have deserved to be called out by a "veteran" on his own team for not running it out. Poor way for Papelbon to do it, though. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shakes Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 except he did run it out. not sure how that part keeps getting ignored in all this. harpers a lightning rod and i get it, but playing the hustle card is entirely off base in this case he popped up, took half a second to show his displeasure like pretty much any hitter in the league does, then jogged to first. he was standing on the base when the ball was caught. if it were dropped, he was safe. if hed busted ass out of the box immediately and it was dropped he would have been a few steps between first and second, nowhere near enough to even consider taking second. for a september game the day after mathematical elimination, thats more than enough effort and that angle also misses the point that papelbon wasnt even calling out harpers lack of effort, he was getting back at him for having the nerve to call throwing at machado's head (twice) for watching a home run "tired." Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shakes Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 as for the mvp, id like to see mlb promote the hank aaron award more heavily, as an award given purely for offensive numbers. then the mvp can be more open to pitching, defense, or every sportswriters favorite buzzword: intangibles. as is, the aaron award seems to be given during the world series as an afterthought Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bleedorange Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 A 10+ WAR season is pretty good, I guess. I just wish he played the game the "right" way. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shakes Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 anyone else remember when the conversation was about bryce harper hustling too much, and how he needed to rein it in or hed never have sustained success in the big leagues it was as recently as last year if anyones forgotten, coincidentally the year before he went apeshit as a hitter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lammycat Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 It's not like his name hasn't come up before for lack of hustle. I believe Williams pulled him from late in a close game beginning of last season citing exactly that, and he's been questioned about it before that, too. Because he reached the base doesn't mean he "hustled." Whatever, just iterating what a lot of other people view as lack of effort in situations like that with the guy. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shakes Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 and most of that questioning came after incidents like headbutting the dodger stadium wall at 20 mph in a blowout game. he cant win either way so ill take a full healthy season with video game numbers if it means jogging out easy pop ups here and there its a long season. i support the sentiment but expecting 110% on every play for 6 months is delusional. you have to recognize the situation and pick and choose when to go all out. all players do, harper just hears it more when he does. there are plenty of guys ive seen who deserve to be scolded for lack of effort far more than bryce. papelbon got a ring on a team lead by manny ramirez and david ortiz. where was his outrage at loafing back then. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lammycat Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 Papelbon wasn't exactly a "veteran" (and in a position to be coming down on other players for lack of (or perceived lack of) effort) when he joined the Sox for his first MLB game in '05..... Either way, he didn't deserve to be publicly admonished by Papelbon (a pitcher, none the less), let alone choked. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KevinG Posted October 2, 2015 Author Share Posted October 2, 2015 In case you were wondering. Not only good numbers this year by Jake Arrieta. Flipping historic numbers. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The Inside of Outside Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 Pretty amazing stuff. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KevinG Posted October 4, 2015 Author Share Posted October 4, 2015 how we feeling about all the games starting at the same time today? Interesting how after playing 162 games it is coming down to one game for so many. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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