Politics 2016 (election edition)

[KevinG]

Nice interpretation. (not being sarcastic) I hate to say it, but you may be giving 'them' more credit than they deserve. I didn't hear much from Trump supporters concerning economic matters.  It was more xenophobia, fear of terrorism and 'someone to shake things up'. Of course, standard of living is going to hell for the majority of Americans...even those with degrees.  We are the ones that end up paying for everything the government does.  Not the elite rich and not the ones who have no money. So Obama and Clinton were no better. Government has the roll of funneling money from worker to capitalist in our country.  We are squeezed and squeezed.  Obviously systemic change is desperately needed. But I never expected a majority of people in this country to go so far right (?) with their anger. Again, they were hoodwinked by lies, rhetoric, emotional manipulation and, as you said, lack of any contact with diversity in our country. Imagine if these folks were non violent revolutionaries! They have EVERYTHING in common with Black Lives, immigrants,poor veterans, uninsured etc. Yet they see 'them' as their enemy.

 

In the Post Trump victory world we live in we have to change our thinking.  I think both sides live in a bubble and echo chamber.  What the left heard about Trump and its supporters was the xenophobic rhetoric etc.  I am not sure that was fully the case.  From the analysis of the exit polls it is was more the economy then immigration or terrorism (although those did help).  The idiot racists make for good Daily Show segments and good postings on Facebook, but not everyone is that way.  But what happened when the left made that the singular focus they lost site of the struggles of these Americans.  This was the biggest mistake of the campaign. The democrats didn't realize how much they needed the white working class vote.  Their needs were not and are not being met.  

 

Right now, we have to move off of the focus on his rhetoric.  Everyone knows what Trump has said and what he has done.  I am not excusing it by any means.  In the next months he has to answer for what he has said and what he will do to make this country work for all Americans.  But IMHO it is not the racist rhetoric that got him elected.  He was elected in spite of it.  The left needs to understand the why they voted for him.  This needs to be addressed with in the party.  I am not giving Trump a clean slate.  But I am giving him the benefit of doubt.  I don't like that he will be president.  But to continually badger his rhetoric of the campaign will do no good.      

[Vacant Horizon]

As well as show glimmers of hope....

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/11/10/donald-trump-due-to-meet-president-obama-as-backlash-begins-with/

 

This pic, along with the headline Wed morning totally look like what you'd see in the Onion.  It's surreal.

[Vacant Horizon]

In the Post Trump victory world we live in we have to change our thinking.  I think both sides live in a bubble and echo chamber.  What the left heard about Trump and its supporters was the xenophobic rhetoric etc.  I am not sure that was fully the case.  From the analysis of the exit polls it is was more the economy then immigration or terrorism (although those did help).  The idiot racists make for good Daily Show segments and good postings on Facebook, but not everyone is that way.  But what happened when the left made that the singular focus they lost site of the struggles of these Americans.  This was the biggest mistake of the campaign. The democrats didn't realize how much they needed the white working class vote.  Their needs were not and are not being met.  

 

Right now, we have to move off of the focus on his rhetoric.  Everyone knows what Trump has said and what he has done.  I am not excusing it by any means.  In the next months he has to answer for what he has said and what he will do to make this country work for all Americans.  But IMHO it is not the racist rhetoric that got him elected.  He was elected in spite of it.  The left needs to understand the why they voted for him.  This needs to be addressed with in the party.  I am not giving Trump a clean slate.  But I am giving him the benefit of doubt.  I don't like that he will be president.  But to continually badger his rhetoric of the campaign will do no good.      

 

There are lots of people that really have no choice in ignoring his rhetoric.  Saying we need to move on is like dismissing his sexism as 'locker room talk'. I'm usually quite cynical about American politics. I have that privilege. I can walk down the street and no one would know I'm a Marxist. However, when a president sends men and women to war based on lies or when a president blatantly scapegoats whole cultures...I have to pay attention and do something and absolutely not let it go.  Where is the line if this is just dismissed as rhetoric? Will the next candidate finally be held accountable if a video of him raping a woman shows up? I guess that could even be spun. 

 

@KevinG-

Thanks for indulging my rants.  Not trying to dis you or argue.  You're points are valid and I'm just using them as part of my attempts at dealing with all of this. It still stands that these folks that voted for Trump have been 'fucked' for generations by a system that has fucked mostly everyone else too. When I think about it, I'm in solidarity with these people. They've suffered more than I probably will in this life and my concern is everyone. The sad thing is that their anger and fear was manipulated by the continuous stream of propaganda we endure everyday. It's just so sad that we can't work collectively to at least end this economic slavery we all are in. I guess we'll see.

[Vacant Horizon]

People Share Frightening Images In The Aftermath Of Drumpf’s Victory

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/day-1-trumps-america_us_582497afe4b0cdd5e7e99e86

 

This is so scary.  We had 'white power' chants at two big universities in town. Also saw several American flags being flown in a row of houses where Hispanic folks live. I stand with these victims of outright racism. 

[lost highway]

My friends own a hip bar/venue. One of them posted yesterday about how it's a "safe space" for the long list of minorities who may feel threatened in our changing political climate.

 

Today he walked up to the bar to open it up and saw "Hail Trump" spray painted across the front.

[Lammycat]

My friends own a hip bar/venue. One of them posted yesterday about how it's a "safe space" for the long list of minorities who may feel threatened in our changing political climate.

 

Today he walked up to the bar to open it up and saw "Hail Trump" spray painted across the front.

Where was this? Good lord.

[tinnitus photography]

it can't be Germantown. they spelled "Heil" wrong.

[kidsmoke]

This is so scary.  We had 'white power' chants at two big universities in town. Also saw several American flags being flown in a row of houses where Hispanic folks live. I stand with these victims of outright racism. 

 

I'll be standing right beside you.

[Doctor B]

Are you guys ignoring the anti-Trump protests, beatings, calls for assassinations that are happening around the country?  An American flag is somehow a sign of racism? As a Hispanic and naturalized American, I find it more offensive that you guys think I need safe spaces. I have read this column for a long time and every once in awhile participated in the discussion, usually stopping after being called ignorant, racist, Islamaphobe, etc. And yet you guys are offended by Trump signs and the flag? Maybe that type of thinking is exactly why Clinton lost. I think Kevin has it right.

 

There has to be room in the Democratic Party for guys like Sam Nunn and Jim Webb. 

[tinnitus photography]

i would never advocate for a Trump assassination.

 

 

Pence actually scares me more.

[ditty]

The Incredible Reason You Might Start Seeing Safety Pins Everywhere

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/safety-pin-trump-brexit_us_58251b53e4b0c4b63b0c11a9

 

Ready to get my ass kicked, standing up for others 

[lost highway]

Are you guys ignoring the anti-Trump protests, beatings, calls for assassinations that are happening around the country?  An American flag is somehow a sign of racism? As a Hispanic and naturalized American, I find it more offensive that you guys think I need safe spaces. I have read this column for a long time and every once in awhile participated in the discussion, usually stopping after being called ignorant, racist, Islamaphobe, etc. And yet you guys are offended by Trump signs and the flag? Maybe that type of thinking is exactly why Clinton lost. I think Kevin has it right.

 

There has to be room in the Democratic Party for guys like Sam Nunn and Jim Webb. 

 

No one said you needed a safe space. If you're referring to my story, some people feel unsafe.  Some of my friends are in the Trans community and they often feel unsafe in a typical situation, things seemed a little heightened right now so that's been exacerbated.  

 

I can't recall anyone calling you a racist.  I do think people have consistently called Trump racist, sexist, Islamaphobe because his comments have qualified him as such.  You're right that all of his supporters are not- there was lack of engagement with the working poor in parts of this country on the part of the Democrats both in policy and campaigning.  While all Trump supporters can not possibly be drawn under the umbrella of the hateful list of "isms" they've had to be tolerant of it to vote for him.

 

To be non-partisan I think this election revealed that people's partisan leanings can supersede their ethical and even religious principals.  Some of this is the inevitable corralling of a two party system after two very dysfunctional primaries.

[NoJ]

I've been traveling this week so I haven't had a chance to poke around here. Obviously, my mind is reeling with this awful turn of events. Never once did I consider the possibility of him actually being elected. I put my faith in the common sense and practicality of the American people. How wrong I was.

[Winston Legthigh]

Ready to get my ass kicked, standing up for others 

 

You know, I've been thinking the same thing over the past couple days. I thought I really need to get stronger, work out harder, get ready to take a beating in case I witness some of this outrageous stuff. I'm not going to stand by, but I'm definitely soft right now. 

[KevinG]

Are you guys ignoring the anti-Trump protests, beatings, calls for assassinations that are happening around the country?  An American flag is somehow a sign of racism? As a Hispanic and naturalized American, I find it more offensive that you guys think I need safe spaces. I have read this column for a long time and every once in awhile participated in the discussion, usually stopping after being called ignorant, racist, Islamaphobe, etc. And yet you guys are offended by Trump signs and the flag? Maybe that type of thinking is exactly why Clinton lost. I think Kevin has it right.

 

There has to be room in the Democratic Party for guys like Sam Nunn and Jim Webb. 

 

What the hell are you talking about?   

 

Stop projecting what you see in the right wing media on people here.  You have the propensity to half read things and make conclusions that just are not there. There are several things in your statement that have never been said in this discussion.  I want specifically point out something here.  Especially your statement "and yet you guys are offended by Trump signs."  WTF man? I went through the posts to be clear, the only post I saw about Trump signs was Ditty's post the other day.  Yeah, if you are not offended by that display then you are a racist asshat.  If you are not offened by that then you are ignorant.  If those signs do not make your blood boil and want you to scream with rage, then you are simply a horrible human being.     

 

In my recent posts, I have given the Trump supporters a pass, or at least tried in my mind to explain their situation.  I would hope those people would understand and give an understanding of why Clinton supporters are so upset.  Clinton won the popular vote and the person who beat her in the electoral college has done and have said hateful things.  And every indication by the campaign minorities will be marginalized in this administration.  These groups are rightfully worried about their status in society.  That should have every person worried.  Hate crimes have ticked up recently.  They have the right to protest.  However they violence is not the answer and never will be the answer.  

[ditty]

WTF, I will double down, this shit needs to been seen by all

 

People Share Frightening Images In The Aftermath Of Drumpf’s Victory

 

http://www.huffingto...4b0cdd5e7e99e86

 

--

Reports of racist graffiti, hate crimes post-election

 

http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/10/us/post-election-hate-crimes-and-fears-trnd/index.html

 

--

 

Of course, Fox news calls them professional protesters 

 

I FOR ONE, WILL DO WHAT THE RIGHT DID FOR 8 YEARS AND PUT CONSTANT OBSTRUCTION IN THE FACE OF THE REPUBLICANS

[KevinG]

 

Of course, Fox news calls them professional protesters 

 

 

and of course the President Elect.  

https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/796900183955095552?lang=en

 

What a Trump presidency has done is that is has normalized, to an extent, this kind of behavior.  Which is the true unfortunate thing that has happened.  

 

It is important to anyone who voted Trump to stand up against this.  To be outraged.  If you supported Trump and are not horrified, then you are a racist scum bag.  The President elect, needs to come out and show leadership and try to bring the country together.  

[Doctor B]

Wow. Hell of a response. Glad to see such wonderful discussion and civility. You will never agree but you guys have anger issues with those that you disagree with. That shit is what turned off so many people this election. Have a nice life.

[tinnitus photography]

Wow. Hell of a response. Glad to see such wonderful discussion and civility. You will never agree but you guys have anger issues with those that you disagree with. That shit is what turned off so many people this election. Have a nice life.

i think you are doing a pretty job of either talking past people, or misinterpreting things... as stated above, i don't believe anyone said that you needed a safe space.

 

and as for the Trump signs, check out ditty's post... that's what was referenced.

 

 

 

yeah, people are upset and a small minority is doing stupid stuff. does mean that the overall mood of left-leaning people is to be dismissed? i don't think so.

 

 

lemme guess... your favorite Wilco song is not "Ashes of American Flags."

[Passenger Sid]

Whether people like it or despise it, Trump won the election fair and square. To me, the protestors looked like babies throwing a temper tantrum.

[KevinG]

Whether people like it or despise it, Trump won the election fair and square. To me, the protestors looked like babies throwing a temper tantrum.

 

That is a way to look at things.  Or another way to look at things is they are expressing their first amendment rights to speak out against something they disagree with.  

 

People are scared, people are worried.  The rhetoric of the campaign told a large swath of this country that they are less important.  To blindly dismiss them as babies, does a disservice to America as a whole.  But our insular world view automatically rejects those we disagree with, instead of understanding why we disagree with them.   

[ditty]

Wow. Hell of a response. Glad to see such wonderful discussion and civility. You will never agree but you guys have anger issues with those that you disagree with. That shit is what turned off so many people this election. Have a nice life.

I am angry this shit is going on.  Are you denying it is happening? Is YOUR president elect speaking out and against this?

[lost highway]

Whether people like it or despise it, Trump won the election fair and square. To me, the protestors looked like babies throwing a temper tantrum.

 

That's fair, but that's also not the main idea of the discussion.

[John Smith]

I am angry this shit is going on. Are you denying it is going? Is YOUR president elect speaking out and against this?

This reminds me of a point in one of the debates (2 maybe) where trump called Obama "your president" when addressing HRC. HRC and possibly the moderator should have been all over that comment, but they let it slide. Anyhow my larger point is that republicans never accepted Obama as the president of the US. Democrats had issues with bush but they worked with him on many issues. By no means had trump won a mandate to do whatever he and congress want, though I think they will act as though they do, it's officially put up or shut up time..again. But the democrats have to accept him and work with him and congress to move forward.

 

As to the protests..the R's were going to not accept an HRC win quietly (torches and pitchforks) and the protestors are not the only ones calling far assassinations (hang the bitch and assasinate her, were frequently and loudly shouted at Trump rallies. It doesn't make it right, it's always wrong. What is really wrong is feigning outrage at acts today, when yesterday's acts are glossed over. Pot kettle yards yadda yadda.

[Passenger Sid]

That is a way to look at things.  Or another way to look at things is they are expressing their first amendment rights to speak out against something they disagree with.  

 

People are scared, people are worried.  The rhetoric of the campaign told a large swath of this country that they are less important.  To blindly dismiss them as babies, does a disservice to America as a whole.  But our insular world view automatically rejects those we disagree with, instead of understanding why we disagree with them.   

 

I've got zero problem with people peacefully protesting. I just think it's kinda sour grapes. He didn't cheat his way to victory. He won. Sucks for those who despise him, but that's too bad. It appears many millennials, among other groups, chose to not vote. Perhaps, if they were THAT fearful of a Trump presidency, they shoulda got to the polls. In 4 years, they'll get the chance to vote Trump out.