winterland121072 Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 11-17 was a pretty good show. The 15 November 1971 Austin show was better - in my opinion. 11-17 had, in my opinion, exceptional Cumberland and NFA>GD>NFA; above average Truckin’ jam, PITB jam, Big RR Blues, and i guess above average Other One Muncle Other One Wharf. The band sounded rowdy and having a blast...or so it seemed to me... Great to see them releasing these early shows... Link to post Share on other sites
NoJ Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 Recently listened to bits of the Rosemont shows from April 89. I wasn't there for the 11th but saw the following two shows (saw Cincy and Louisville too before Rosemont). Surprised at how solid the shows were. Quite possibly my only "To Lay Me Down". I'm struggling to dredge up any memories though. I did get down to 10th row center for a 1st set but really cant recall much else outside of the weather being crappy. Link to post Share on other sites
i'm only sleeping Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 Trie to grab the forthcoming Dave P 26. Sold Out I just read – in the only readable Spanish rock mag, Ruta 66- an interesting journalist piece by maybe the most reliable rock critic here Ignacio Julià – a Wilco fan and Velvet/Lou Reed biographer/fan– on the similarities and differences between the Grateful Dead and The Velvet Underground and the cultural envelopments in both coasts of the two bands in the’ 60. Julià is a huge VU fan and I think that more recently he is also increasingly appreciating the GD (the scarcity of live recordings in Spain, except Europe 72, means that sadly here the Dead are a thing for connoisseurs, even in the rock critic world). I think he is trying to reconcile his old vu passion with a new, acquired passion for the gd. But he fails imho. His thesis is that both bands were not so different, which I find plainly absurd because his major argument is the duration of (some) Sister Ray(s) and Dark Star(s) and the intertwined guitars of Reed-Morrison vs Garcia-Weir. In fact, he interviews fans of both bands – Lee Ranaldo, Ira Kaplan, M C Kostek (VU Appreciation Society) and Ross James (Terrapin Family Band)- and tries to confirm his feelings in the questions he addresses to them…to no avail. All interviewees say they do not see any similarity except the banal ones above mentioned. For instance, Kostek says Sister Ray was a conscientiously degenerate delirium that could take any direction while Dark Star was mainly a mystical search…Despite all, he concludes in a large sub headline that “The extremes meet one another”… what would we be without wishful thinking? J - and recommends hearing Fillmore West 1969 vs The Matrix Tapes to assess the thing. I have to check that VU thing though. (sorry, no link, and if it would exist it would be in Spanish) Link to post Share on other sites
Analogman Posted April 17, 2018 Author Share Posted April 17, 2018 I think Lou Reed would find that funny. He hated the GD and all those SF bands. At least - I seem to recall reading that in a VU book. Link to post Share on other sites
calvino Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 I do enjoy the Matrix release - i get a slight Dead vibe when I listen to them -- a Viola Lee Blue/Feedback feel. Link to post Share on other sites
Lammycat Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 Do they not have access to archives.org, Spotify, Youtube, or the internet in Spain?! Link to post Share on other sites
Lammycat Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 The only similarity between the GD and the VU, that I can think of, is that they both had a female band member and were both, for a spell, managed by pretty unique and "out there" people (Warhol/Owsley). Not hearing any similar sounds at all. Link to post Share on other sites
uncool2pillow Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 Trie to grab the forthcoming Dave P 26. Sold Out I just read – in the only readable Spanish rock mag, Ruta 66- an interesting journalist piece by maybe the most reliable rock critic here Ignacio Julià – a Wilco fan and Velvet/Lou Reed biographer/fan– on the similarities and differences between the Grateful Dead and The Velvet Underground and the cultural envelopments in both coasts of the two bands in the’ 60. Julià is a huge VU fan and I think that more recently he is also increasingly appreciating the GD (the scarcity of live recordings in Spain, except Europe 72, means that sadly here the Dead are a thing for connoisseurs, even in the rock critic world). I think he is trying to reconcile his old vu passion with a new, acquired passion for the gd. But he fails imho. His thesis is that both bands were not so different, which I find plainly absurd because his major argument is the duration of (some) Sister Ray(s) and Dark Star(s) and the intertwined guitars of Reed-Morrison vs Garcia-Weir. In fact, he interviews fans of both bands – Lee Ranaldo, Ira Kaplan, M C Kostek (VU Appreciation Society) and Ross James (Terrapin Family Band)- and tries to confirm his feelings in the questions he addresses to them…to no avail. All interviewees say they do not see any similarity except the banal ones above mentioned. For instance, Kostek says Sister Ray was a conscientiously degenerate delirium that could take any direction while Dark Star was mainly a mystical search…Despite all, he concludes in a large sub headline that “The extremes meet one another”… what would we be without wishful thinking? J - and recommends hearing Fillmore West 1969 vs The Matrix Tapes to assess the thing. I have to check that VU thing though.(sorry, no link, and if it would exist it would be in Spanish) I would (almost) agree with the Weir/Garcia - Morrison/Reed guitar comparisons. I especially notice similarities between Morrison and Weir. Reed & Garcia, not so much. I have observed before, and I think probably here, that I would've loved to hear the Dead cover Sweet Jane and to hear VU cover Franklin's Tower. Link to post Share on other sites
calvino Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 They both enjoyed the freak-out kind of feedback. Link to post Share on other sites
i'm only sleeping Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 I Think Phil plays/ has played Sweet Jane in Terrapin Xroads Link to post Share on other sites
Lammycat Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 I Think Phil plays/ has played Sweet Jane in Terrapin XroadsYes, a bunch of times:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KbXIKBVsTg Link to post Share on other sites
winterland121072 Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 Lou Reed is to speed as Grateful Dead is to psychedelics. Link to post Share on other sites
uncool2pillow Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 Lou Reed is to speed as Grateful Dead is to psychedelics.Perfect for the SATs ___ : speed :: Grateful Dead : psychedelics Today's kids wouldn't have a clue. Link to post Share on other sites
Oil Can Boyd Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 I see some similarities (some of which are superficial): They were both called the WarlocksLou and Jerry both liked Ornette Coleman, and Lou and Bob played with Rob WassermanThey both experimented heavily with feedback early in their careersWarhol's Exploding Plastic Inevitable had similarities to the Acid TestsThey both felt like albums didn't capture their live show But feedback aside, I don't hear much in common musically. Even in their early improvisational noisy jams, the VU were about repetition where the Dead were emphatically not. Link to post Share on other sites
jw harding Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 Both are drug bands. Main guys both like heroin. That's gonna result in some crossover. Link to post Share on other sites
Winston Legthigh Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 I'm going to venture to guess that Jerry never got into asking someone to take a dump on a glass plate held above his face... Link to post Share on other sites
Oil Can Boyd Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 I'm going to venture to guess that Jerry never got into asking someone to take a dump on a glass plate held above his face...Now that's a story I'm not familiar with and I'm a little reluctant to google it here at work ... Link to post Share on other sites
Winston Legthigh Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 Now that's a story I'm not familiar with and I'm a little reluctant to google it here at work ... Pretty sure I read it in Legs McNeil's "Please Kill Me - The Uncensored Oral History of Punk" Fascinating book. Link to post Share on other sites
uncool2pillow Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 I'm going to venture to guess that Jerry never got into asking someone to take a dump on a glass plate held above his face...I wonder about POTUS though... Link to post Share on other sites
Winston Legthigh Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 I wonder about POTUS though...If there's a 1% chance that Melania thinks it's true... Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Heartbreak Posted April 18, 2018 Share Posted April 18, 2018 Perfect for the SATs ___ : speed :: Grateful Dead : psychedelics Today's kids wouldn't have a clue. Link to post Share on other sites
mountain bed Posted April 18, 2018 Share Posted April 18, 2018 I see some similarities (some of which are superficial): They were both called the WarlocksLou and Jerry both liked Ornette Coleman, and Lou and Bob played with Rob WassermanThey both experimented heavily with feedback early in their careersWarhol's Exploding Plastic Inevitable had similarities to the Acid TestsThey both felt like albums didn't capture their live show But feedback aside, I don't hear much in common musically. Even in their early improvisational noisy jams, the VU were about repetition where the Dead were emphatically not. That's a VERY good synopsis. Link to post Share on other sites
Oil Can Boyd Posted April 18, 2018 Share Posted April 18, 2018 That's a VERY good synopsis. Ha! Thanks. They are also two of the cornerstones of most of the music that I listen to. Link to post Share on other sites
Winston Legthigh Posted April 20, 2018 Share Posted April 20, 2018 Began watching a documentary on Doug Sahm last night (it's available on Amazon Prime) Early on, there's a pic of him on stage with Garcia, (it's also in the trailer above) and on his wikipedia page it says that the Dead employed him as a session musician. Anyone know which song(s)/album he appeared on? Edit - found an article with a link to a show from Thanksgiving weekend 1972, in which Garcia and Lesh played in an impromptu band with Sahm in Austin TX. https://aquariumdrunkard.com/2013/11/27/happy-thanksgiving-doug-sahm-and-friends-austin-tx-1972/ Actually, that whole show is on youtube too. Rough recording... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Van_3-Sn-n0 Found it - Sahm played the Bajo Sexto on Wake of the Flood. Not sure which song(s) though. Link to post Share on other sites
Analogman Posted April 20, 2018 Author Share Posted April 20, 2018 I watched that a while back. I will say he had some great songs early on - but a lot of that later stuff is awful. Link to post Share on other sites
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