More on the "controversy"

[GeckoRlz]

Says the individuals that wrote the documents this country was founded on for starters. You have the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That goes for others as well. Your rights end where theirs begin. You do not have the right to force them to do something as it infringes on their right to liberty. So, again, nothing can be a basic human right if it requires someone else to provide it.

 

And your convinced that those ideals of american democracy are manifest today huh? I'm feeling pretty good about my personal liberties these days...

 

I can't think of a single thing the government has ever done better or more efficiently than private individuals have. Health care, in my opinion, is way too important to hand over to the government.

 

I dont think private individuals (ie. huge corporations) have done any better job with healthcare in this country than many foreign gvts have. In fact we're almost unanimous in this country today (how common is that these days?) that our healthcare system is completely in the gutters.

[caliber66]

I am completely serious.

Then you should post in any one of the other three threads on this topic. There's no need for another one.

[owl]

Okay, non-pseudo whiny it is, then.

 

Is it safe to say that ex-fans also quickly become ex-message board members, or are you just going to troll around for a while?

[OOO]

I have the urge to merge.

[ction]

you know, you left out a crucial element in your story - how you came to be convinced by your professors argument.

 

I wasn't there, so I don't know if the professor proved that all artists use their art to get paid/laid (I would guess that would be difficult to prove). I think her argument that Wilco have used their art to at least get paid would be an easy one to prove, since they, uh, get paid for their art and have from the beginning of the band.

[Wendy]

Ah - merge is a better choice. thanks Oblivious.

[fortuneinmyhead]

If by seeking to expand their fanbase and increase exposure for their art is a "sell out", then I suppose they have. A band in Wilco's position ... a cult band with little to no radio play has 2 choices in today's scenario: continue to play to the existing fanbase or try to get more exposure. That's done through 3 channels by almost EVERY indie band these days - television shows, commercials, and movies.

 

Why is that? Because radio is next to dead being a prisoner of the clear-channels out there. Because wilco doesn't fit big radio's current format.

 

Get used to it, you'll see more bands doing this.

[MattZ]

Says the individuals that wrote the documents this country was founded on for starters. You have the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That goes for others as well. Your rights end where theirs begin. You do not have the right to force them to do something as it infringes on their right to liberty. So, again, nothing can be a basic human right if it requires someone else to provide it.

 

Not quite. Plenty of laws are passed to ensure people's right to life, liberty and happiness. Including but not limited to the Civil Rights Act of 1964. That law forces businesses to provide certain service to customers without regard to race. That law forces a burger joint in Georgia to serve a burger to a black man.

 

It's not quite as black and white as you are making it out to be here (no pun intended). Many would argue that the right to life, liberty, happiness by definition would include health care. And that "forcing" citizens to provide it is no different than forcing a burger joint to serve that burger in Georgia.

 

We are off topic here, but whatever. Don't even think of telling me that the Civil Rights Act violates the Commerce Clause.

[LouieB]

Man..someone hand me a beer....

 

LouieB

[Analogman]

NRA, yes...because it is a lobbyist group w/ a more political agenda, an agenda I don't subscribe to and that can affect my/my family's personal safety. NASCAR, no...because while I find it insanely boring, it doesn't infringe on my core beliefs...outside of the one that auto racing that doesn't involve cars that shoot lasers is insanely boring.

 

Apples to oranges.

 

Just as I thought.

[unclepunk]

Ah - merge is a better choice. thanks Oblivious.

 

Or, you could just erase the post and censor it. That wouldn't be much of an ethical stretch. Or, you could use my comments in a commercial for some product, maybe McDonald's this time. The possibilities are infinite once you've sold your soul!

[caliber66]

Every one of your posts is here for anyone to read.

[owl]

Or, you could just erase the post and censor it. That wouldn't be much of an ethical stretch. Or, you could use my comments in a commercial for some product, maybe McDonald's this time. The possibilities are infinite once you've sold your soul!

 

Cry somewhere else, crybaby.

 

[Wendy]

Or, you could just erase the post and censor it. That wouldn't be much of an ethical stretch. Or, you could use my comments in a commercial for some product, maybe McDonald's this time. The possibilities are infinite once you've sold your soul!

 

 

No, I just merged you into this thread where we are talking exactly about what you posted. Welcome to the forum. You are new poster with an opinion, so state it here, if you don't mind.

[MrRain422]

Says the individuals that wrote the documents this country was founded on for starters. You have the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That goes for others as well. Your rights end where theirs begin. You do not have the right to force them to do something as it infringes on their right to liberty. So, again, nothing can be a basic human right if it requires someone else to provide it.

 

You make a pretty big leap on logic right there. One could easily argue that access to health care is vital to ensuring the right to life (especially), liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Under private or public health care, those providing the care are doing so because they chose to enter those fields. Simply changing the system from private to public does nothing to change this. No one is being forced to provide anything. Do you object to the police officers being "forced" to investigate crimes?

 

Don't get me wrong... I'm not a ruthless uncaring guy. I agree that we need to take care of each other. I just don't think we need government interference to do it. When you look at history, I can't think of a single thing the government has ever done better or more efficiently than private individuals have. Health care, in my opinion, is way too important to hand over to the government.

 

The government has screwed a lot of things up historically, but that doesn't mean that there's anything inherently inefficient about the government. It's all about how you do it. Certainly poorly run government is ineffective, but that doesn't automatically mean privitization is always better (although it could in certain instances), it just means that those programs were done poorly. Do you think that our police force or national defense would be more effective if privatized?

 

There are so many examples of private individuals or corporations raping the system that the idea that privatization is always better than government action is laughable, IMO.

 

Also, do you think that health care, as it is right now, is working well?

[MattZ]

What are we arguing about now?

[Duck-Billed Catechist]

None of their music or ideas can be trusted from now on because they used their art to sell some other completely different product.

What does music have to do with trust?

[MrRain422]

Apologies for being way off topic.

[unclepunk]

No, I just merged you into this thread where we are talking exactly about what you posted. Welcome to the forum, you are new poster with an opinion, so state it here, if you don't mind.

 

Thanks for sweeping up the "embarrassing" topic under the rug. Have fun listening to corporate dad-rock.

[caliber66]

Thanks for sweeping up the "embarrassing" topic under the rug. Have fun listening to corporate dad-rock.

You're cute.

[embiggen]

he's got a purdy mouth.

[yermom]

he's got a purdy mouth.

Where is the member with the Oink, "rrreeeeeee....reeeee...oink....reeeee" sig when you need them?

[Sir Stewart]

Is unclepunk my alias? I've never had an alias before, but this seems like something I'd think about doing.

[ction]

What are we arguing about now?

 

Nazis, global warming, Fugazi, marketing, socialism, NASCAR, sad little status seeking upwardly mobile sales reps, Canada, censorship, health care, and truth, justice and the American Way.

[jenbobblehead]

i'm old. can someone remind me what the "punk ethic" is?