The Band

[aricandover]

I like Before the Flood.

 

 

I think it's a great album.

[MattZ]

I think it's a great album.

 

Yeah, I am frankly stunned that this is even up for debate.

[boywiththorninside]

Any Band-obsessives, or people who just happened to be in Saugerties/Woodstock, ever try to find the Big Pink? Is it still there? Is it still pink?

[caliber66]

I'm pretty sure some people from here went up there in the last couple months. IIRC, it's still both there and pink.

[JerseyMike]

Still there. Not pink. I think the people got sick of people coming by to check it out.

[caliber66]

IRHCT

[Analogman]

A good place to find out - probably one of the most detailed fan sites of all time.

[Sir Stewart]

IRDB, it's still both there and pink.

 

I don't think he was asking.

[JerseyMike]

Great Band moments from SNL:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjdbEr6spY0

[Adam2]

Well clearly Robbie didn't write Chest Fever...

 

Before the Flood is getting bashed here unfairly. I saw night two of this tour and the Band was fantastic. While the album cuts are not as good as I remember them being, they really aren't that bad and show alot more fire than the very sedate Rock of Ages.

 

LouieB

 

I would use many words to describe Rock of Ages, and "sedate" is not one of them. How could you describe such an exciting, electric live album as sedate? Before The Flood is not very good at all. Robbie's playing, for the first time, started to show the annoying over-playing that would peak at the Last Waltz. In addition, Richard's voice is rough on BTF. Rock of Ages is 10 times better. One of the best live albums of all time, and one of The Band's best.

[aricandover]

damn, Rock of Ages is anything but sedate. I think the Band is on fire during the whole set, and those horn arrangements are incredible.

[MattZ]

damn, Rock of Ages is anything but sedate. I think the Band is on fire during the whole set, and those horn arrangements are incredible.

 

Totally. Don't Do It to lead off the set with those horns??? Are you people high? It does not get better than this!

[boywiththorninside]

A good place to find out - probably one of the most detailed fan sites of all time.

 

Thanks for the link. I found this:

 

Big Pink Trip

[Analogman]

There is a site like that for Bron-Yr-Aur.

[markosis]

the very sedate Rock of Ages

 

I'm glad someone sees it as I do. They all sound so tame on Rock of Ages, like their holding back, especially Levon's drumming. While he does a great job keeping time, there is no adventure, no risk, and hardly a fill to spice things up. "This Wheel's On Fire" sounds positively safe compared to other versions. Robbie's guitar work is very tame and not exactly as electrifying as I've heard in other live recordings. I think they kind of sucked the life out of "Get Up Jake," which is a ripping song in its original form included on the remastered The Band. I don't know, I always go back to Rock of Ages and give it a try, but it ultimately lets me down.

[LouieB]

Well hearing music differently from the same performance is what makes it interesting. I don't dislike Rock of Ages at all, but I do think that it captures The Band in its chamber rock type of performance as opposed to the ones one Flood and Watkins Glenn which are far more balls to the wall. I have a Rubber Dubber bootleg which is sort of inbetween. the Band did catch some flack back in the day for being restrained, so I am not the only one who sees it this way.

 

I have nothing but love for the Band in any event so really I like it all. I was particularly pleased to get the Dylan cuts on the CD reissue since these were not on the original LP release and yea, I dig the Allen Toussant horn arrangements as well.

 

LouieB

[Adam2]

I really don't see how you guys think Rock of Ages is tame. like the someone else mentioned, Don't Do It is just an electrifying performance. W.S. Walcott is a red hot performance, way better than the studio version. This Wheel's On Fire is also better than the studio verison, as is Stage Fright. and not to mention the absolutely WILD versions of Rag Mama Rag, Chest Fever, and Rock n Roll Shoes. Before The Flood is the beginning of the end... Richard not doing so hot, Robbie now playing a Strat and overplaying like crazy, and the drugs really starting to take away from the music. Watkins Glen is also not a good performance for the same reasons. Besides, if you wanted to hear a "balls to the wall" show, listen to some overblown crap by third-rate bands like Led Zeppelin. The Band was all about restraint, subtlety, and space.

[Adam2]

here's a few clips... this version of Slippin' & Slidin' is one of the wildest things I've ever heard. and an absolutely amazing Rockin' Chair. I'd say this is the best ever performance of one of the best songs ever written. Proof that The Band were the best group to ever exist, bar none.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjrL8jfE5GM

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZqbTPVvZ5pA

[Guest Jules]

I have not heard MMJ's version of It Makes No Difference.

 

 

Thanks.

[Analogman]

Watkins Glenn

LouieB

 

 

We did not have Wikipedia the last time:

 

Live at Watkins Glen is a 1995 album by The Band, presented by Capitol Records as a live album from the Summer Jam at Watkins Glen rock festival held outside Watkins Glen, New York on July 28, 1973 in front of 600,000 people.

 

While presented as a live album, it is actually a compilation of live tracks and overdubbed studio tracks. There are many reasons to believe that very little of the album comes from the concert. For one, the tones of the bass guitar and snare drum change slightly between selections. Also, the set list is radically different from concerts held later that week. And it is known that certain songs that appear were definitely not performed at the concert.

 

The tracks most likely come from three sources:

 

1. The 1971/72 concerts at the Academy of Music that produced Rock of Ages

2. 1973 studio outtakes with crowd overdubbing

3. The Summer Jam concert (in highly edited forms)

 

Garth Hudson's organ solo, "Too Wet to Work" and the plainly titled "Jam" come from group three, as does the introduction of the group. The former is on the out-of-print 1994 box set Across The Great Divide, the latter is only present on the Watkins Glen disc. "Back to Memphis" and "Endless Highway" come from group two, and are available on the 2001 re-release of Moondog Matinee, without the crowd overdubs. The rest come from group one, and are available on the 2001 two-CD re-release of Rock of Ages as "previously unavailable" tracks, with the exception of "Don't Ya Tell Henry", which is replaced with an alternate cut featuring Bob Dylan.

[LouieB]

a "balls to the wall" show, listen to some overblown crap by third-rate bands like Led Zeppelin. The Band was all about restraint, subtlety, and space.

Whoa....let's rip Zepplin (not that I care.) You have a good point there. But Rock of Ages is a fairly restrained performance in general. Nothing wrong with that.

 

Actually Watkins Glenn is far inferior for whatever the source than Before the Flood. One thing for sure. There has been entirely too much messing around the Band's material. Clearly the official release of the Basement Tapes isn't entirely what was recorded at Big Pink. The bootleg I refered to in an earlier post is called Real Old Time and is a totally unadultered performance from July of 1970 long before the end.

 

An interesting and totally unsatisfying Band related project 's solo album John Simon Journey. None of the Band is on this album, but it sounds alot like the Band, with a whole boatload of studio musicians who don't sound very excited to be there.

 

And just to beat the dead horse again, I like all of the Band's studio albums including Stage Fright, Cahoots, Northern Lights, Moondog Matine and Islands (but only parts of it.) The only post Robbie Band album worth more than one listen is Jericho, which has a great version of Blind Wille McTell on it.

 

LouieB

[markosis]

I never said there was anything particularly wrong with the restraint The Band possessed. I find it a virtue. But the Rock of Ages recordings sound safe and tame to me. I have heard other live recordings where the band sounds very alive and electric. Rock of Ages (except for a few tracks) happens to sound a little flat to these ears, some of which I feel has to do with the way it was mixed.

 

At least we can agree on one point:

 

The Band were the best group to ever exist, bar none.

[quarter23cd]

if you wanted to hear a "balls to the wall" show, listen to some overblown crap by third-rate bands like Led Zeppelin. The Band was all about restraint, subtlety, and space.

Restraint, subtlety, and space, at least within the confines of rock n roll, are not always virtues. One of the reasons I think the lineup at Watkins Glen is so fascinating (aside from the fact that I love all 3 bands) is that you have the GD and ABB--who were perpetually pushing outward with their music--and The Band, who was the polar opposite and seemed to pull inward and be very restrained (at least in comparison). Which approach is "better" is a moot point because without each other to contrast against, either style can become somewhat "boring" after a while.

[Skian]

The Band is up there as one of my all time favorite bands. Its a short list - The Grateful Dead, The Beatles, Wilco, The Doors, Dread Zepplin. Of coarse there is Bob Dylan and Neil Young to add to that list.

I enjoy all of the albums of the original Band from Big Pink to Islands and even the post Last Waltz Band Jericho to Jubilation. I also enjoy all of their Dylan projects as well from Bob gone electric back-up band to Plant Waves to Before the Flood. (Though I think they had a bad batch of blow for the show the album was cut from (2/14/74 LA Forum?))

The Last Waltz was the gateway film to make some of that list possible. (How cool was Dylans slot?)

I was mortified to find out that The Last Waltz was a farce and a set-up to satisfy Robbie's personal desires to wimp out and go Hollywood. I happen to believe Levon and his book This Wheels on Fire. If Robbie was such a good song writer and he wrote all those songs himself, why was his solo career such a flop. I'm sure Robbie helped write those songs, but I'm sure the other guys added more than their 2 cents worth. The Band was at its best as a collective whole. Robbie's eyes grew big with greed with the help of Albert Grossman. Robbie signed the papers and made those songs his - copyrights and all. Too bad Levon, Richard, Rick and Garth were having too much fun to notice at the time. As Rick Danko stated in the film " You know what happens when you are having too much fun". They got hoodwinked.

 

Worth the hunt in the world of bootlegs is the FM broadcast of The Last Waltz. There was a lot more to that show than what fit in the film and the Columbia package. Also worth seeking is the bootleg to Rock of Ages its called Academy of Outtakes.

If you the like the Basement Tapes search out the bootleg called (A)Tree with Roots.

 

Another thing to check out is the film Festival Express. There is some decent Band performances in it

along with the GD and Janis. Not to mention the party train with Rick, Janis and Jerry.

 

The Band made their mark in history and is doing a fine job standing the test of time.

[LouieB]

Lots of musicians have been flops in their solo careers. Actually both of Robbie's first two solo records are quite good. None of the rest of the Band had exactly stellar solo careers. Levon's solo records are decent. Danko put out one solo album which is fun but uneven. The Band without Robbie continually flopped after Jericho. (And acording to Analogman well before that...)

 

The Last Waltz is a great film, period. Of course it was set up. That is how it was so good, a great deal of planning with every shot planned. Robbie and Scorcese set out to make a great rock film and they succeeded. That's all that counts.

 

The entire Robbie is a jerk argument is getting kind of tired. The Band was a great band, Robbie wrote great songs (perhaps with help from the others), but when it ended, so did the chemistry. So it goes.

 

And the Band never recorded on Columbia, the bulk of their work is on Capital and the Last Waltz is on Warners (the reissue on Warner/Rhino.)

 

LouieB