MLB 2008

[bobbob1313]

I think Ozzie is getting better. I was really worried about some of the things he said in spring training, but he seems to be making better lineup choices and losing his fascination with the wispy fast guys who can't hit. The word "Moneyball" crossed AJ Pierzynski's lips the other day.

 

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sp...1,2858616.story

 

It's obvious that Ozzie was kidnapped and replaced with a Manny Acta clone. He's making way too much sense there.

[Chris_H_2]

Breaking News: The Tigers lost again.

 

And now back to your regularly scheduled program already in progress.

[bobbob1313]

Might be time to start panicking. But I'd say they are more likely to be 7-7 than 0-14.

[jenbobblehead]

I have to say that the Tigers did not look good today at all.

[MrRain422]

How are the White Sox doing so far this season?

 

And how did they do last year? Are you really going to tell me that we can tell more about Ozzie's management skills based on the last week than all of last season? I'm of the opinion that managers have only a small impact on how good a team is anyway, but to use one week's worth of games for evidence of anything at all is pretty silly.

 

Ozzie is not the reason the team stunk last year, their lineup that put up an OPS+ of 86 was, and he was not the reason that his team won the World Series in 2005, their crazy awesome pitching was. But if we're really to judge managers for the small effect that they do have, I think it's pretty difficult to make a case that Ozzie is one of the better ones.

[quarter23cd]

I know its early and the first week means nothing blah blah blah, but no matter what happens.......must * resist * temptation * to * start * believing * in * Orioles.

 

Been down that path too many times in recent years, only to be smacked upside the head with a 3000-game losing streak after the all-star break. Gotta keep a sense of perspective on this.

[bjorn_skurj]

And how did they do last year? Are you really going to tell me that we can tell more about Ozzie's management skills based on the last week than all of last season? I'm of the opinion that managers have only a small impact on how good a team is anyway, but to use one week's worth of games for evidence of anything at all is pretty silly.

 

Ozzie is not the reason the team stunk last year, their lineup that put up an OPS+ of 86 was, and he was not the reason that his team won the World Series in 2005, their crazy awesome pitching was. But if we're really to judge managers for the small effect that they do have, I think it's pretty difficult to make a case that Ozzie is one of the better ones.

Each team's situation is unique and calls for different managerial styles. It is my considered opinion as a Meh-ts fan that they need someone at the top who will kick their ass some, and since more than half the team is Latino, to be able to do it in Spanish is a plus.

[Mr. Kinsley]

OK, Cub fans... I need some advice:

 

Geovany Soto is on my fantasy team. What are your feelings on him? How much time should I give him before looking to other options, like Ryan Doumit of Pittsburgh?

[jenbobblehead]

I just told my dad my joke about the flags at fenway and he laughed so hard he started choking a little. He's fine though. He also said that the Hartford Courant reported that A-Rod sent that little girl, Alexa Rodrigez who was attacked by the hawk at fenway, a note and some flowers. Which, frankly, is pretty nice.

 

I'll see if i can find the reference because honestly, dad has been known to make shit up.

 

edit: i couldn't find it. i think he made it up.

[Mr. Kinsley]

edit: i couldn't find it. i think he made it up.

Indeed. I really don't think Andre Dawson would do something like that.

 

 

[MrRain422]

Each team's situation is unique and calls for different managerial styles. It is my considered opinion as a Meh-ts fan that they need someone at the top who will kick their ass some, and since more than half the team is Latino, to be able to do it in Spanish is a plus.

 

Sure, I agree that managers are not all completely interchangeable and a team may do better under one manager than they would with another. But just how much of a difference does the manager make? I contend that it's not very much.

[Lammycat]

What's all this nonsense that the first week of the season is meaningless, etc?

 

Of course we can't call for manager's heads this early (and I don't think anybody has) but the first week offers a good glimpse into the strength of a rotation (or what parts are currently available) as well as the strength of the batting order and defense. It's a mere glimpse but it's certainly relevant.

 

No one expects DET to lose all of their games, obviously, but getting off to a shitty start like they are is enough to question the veracity of their line up that's been touted since the Hot Stove. I'm sure they'll iron things out over time but their pitching may be an Achilles heel for them until at least the AS break.

[Lammycat]

Sure, I agree that managers are not all completely interchangeable and a team may do better under one manager than they would with another. But just how much of a difference does the manager make? I contend that it's not very much.

I think it's enough to make a difference in how a season pans out. We've discussed this before and I know you and bobbob and some others think their impact is slighter than GMs and players generally do and that's cool.

[bjorn_skurj]

Sure, I agree that managers are not all completely interchangeable and a team may do better under one manager than they would with another. But just how much of a difference does the manager make? I contend that it's not very much.

Ask Grady Little.

[JerseyMike]

t just how much of a difference does the manager make? I contend that it's not very much.

 

I disagree. Having played baseball into my 20's I've been on some teams that had managers that just rubbed people the wrong way, and those teams usually do not play well, and thats not even in a 162 game schedule. In the X's and O's aspect of the game, the manager probably wins/loses 5-10 games a year. But as far as staying focused and fresh, and staying out of prolonged slumps and losing streaks during the course of a long season, I believe a managers presence, demeanor and leadership has a great deal to do with how a team plays.

[MrRain422]

What's all this nonsense that the first week of the season is meaningless, etc?

 

Speaking only for myself, I never said that the first week was meaningless, just that it only had so much meaning, especially in the context of managerial success. You can learn a little bit about a team in one week, and only a tiny part of that is about the manager.

 

No one expects DET to lose all of their games, obviously, but getting off to a shitty start like they are is enough to question the veracity of their line up that's been touted since the Hot Stove. I'm sure they'll iron things out over time but their pitching may be an Achilles heel for them until at least the AS break.

 

How much of the Tigers' struggles so far are due to poor management? And how much is due to injuries and/or a couple guys starting off the season in a slump? Did Jim Leyland make Miguel Cabrera make a throwing error today? What about Leyland's management style could have caused Justin Verlander to give up a lead off homerun to Nick Swisher?

 

I think it's enough to make a difference in how a season pans out. We've discussed this before and I know you and bobbob and some others think their impact is slighter than GMs and players generally do and that's cool.

 

I know we've disagreed on this before, but I don't think I realized that you believe that managers can make an even bigger difference than the players. That just seems nuts to me, but to each his own.

 

Ask Grady Little.

 

Absolutely. I agree that a manager can make a big difference in one game. Of course the team did manage to get really far in order for Little to be put into that situation to begin with. Was that due to Little too or was that because of good players?

 

I disagree. Having played baseball into my 20's I've been on some teams that had managers that just rubbed people the wrong way, and those teams usually do not play well, and thats not even in a 162 game schedule. In the X's and O's aspect of the game, the manager probably wins/loses 5-10 games a year. But as far as staying focused and fresh, and staying out of prolonged slumps and losing streaks during the course of a long season, I believe a managers presence, demeanor and leadership has a great deal to do with how a team plays.

 

Let's bring this full circle to the start of this discussion. You say that a manager can make a difference of 5-10 games over 162 games. If that is the case, then Ozzie Guillen can be credited for the outcome of 0.21-0.42 of the White Sox games so far, right?

[tongue-tied lightning]

ok, look at the Phillies. They Bowa for a while, didn't win. They said he was to intense, the players need a calmer coach. They hire Uncle Charlie, still losing, so now what, back to a Bowa type ?

 

I think Geoege fired Yogi 8 games in one year.

 

the Mets will do fine, when they hit & pitch better.

 

Reds are 4-3

[Lammycat]

Speaking only for myself, I never said that the first week was meaningless, just that it only had so much meaning, especially in the context of managerial success. You can learn a little bit about a team in one week, and only a tiny part of that is about the manager.

We agree.

 

 

How much of the Tigers' struggles so far are due to poor management? And how much is due to injuries and/or a couple guys starting off the season in a slump? Did Jim Leyland make Miguel Cabrera make a throwing error today? What about Leyland's management style could have caused Justin Verlander to give up a lead off homerun to Nick Swisher?

 

I didn't mention a word about a manager's impact here, just that they're playing shitty right now and it's a glimpse into the team's problems with pitching.

 

I know we've disagreed on this before, but I don't think I realized that you believe that managers can make an even bigger difference than the players. That just seems nuts to me, but to each his own.

 

Not sure how you glean this out of what I said, either. When did I say managers make a bigger impact than the players? Come on, you're totally twisting what I have stated. The impact a manager has on a team is of significant worth to most GMs and most players for a myriad of reasons.

I agree with this. That's all.

[MrRain422]

Just realized I misread this: "I know you and bobbob and some others think their impact is slighter than GMs and players generally do and that's cool."

 

I was taking that to mean that bobbob and I thought that their impact was less than GMs and players, and therefore was inferring that you did not feel this way. Re-reading it, I realize that you meant that bobbob and I think that the manager has less impact than GMs and players think that managers have. I definately don't disagree with that. Sorry for rushing to judgement before I gave what you said a proper reading.

[bjorn_skurj]

I still think Willie should be fired.

[DAngerer09]

I think this board needs some more Reds fans. How about Johnny Cueto!

[bobbob1313]

Cueto is sick. Not sure he can keep this up, but he's got filthy filthy stuff.

[jmacomber68w]

I think this board needs some more Reds fans. How about Johnny Cueto!

 

how long before he is traded to the sox or yankees??? I hope for all the red fans out there cueto is there to stay, over the last year we saw 2 struggling teams trade potential big name pitchers (bedard and harren), but why??? keep those guys thats what you build a team round damnit!!!

[bjorn_skurj]

And I would further like to say it is time for Delgado to follow Piazza into DH-istan. Carlos needs to put up Aaronian stats to justify his cadaverish defense at first.

[caliber66]

Let's bring this full circle to the start of this discussion. You say that a manager can make a difference of 5-10 games over 162 games. If that is the case, then Ozzie Guillen can be credited for the outcome of 0.21-0.42 of the White Sox games so far, right?

That's not what he said. He said that what the manager does with his team on the field can change the outcome of 5-10 games a season, but the manager can also have an impact on the team in other ways, keeping emotions and energy focused in the right direction, which can make a greater (or lesser), though certainly not measurable, difference.