MrRain422 Posted September 1, 2008 Share Posted September 1, 2008 You make it sound as if the only two choices are either abortion or getting on an airplane from Texas to Alaska while already in labor. Link to post Share on other sites
ChooChooCharlie Posted September 1, 2008 Share Posted September 1, 2008 to fight ridiculous Internet rumors, she should release pictures of herself in the hospital? That's incredibly invasive and it wouldn't do anything to quash the rumors. The people putting this out know it doesn't matter if it's true. All that matters is it is out there now.More invasive than manic speculation her son is her grandson? If it were me, I'd rather release a modest and happy picture -- I see nothing innappropriate with that. I strongly disagree that "all that matters is it is out there now" and "it doesn't matter if it's true." Since its untrue, those rumors will now end and so will the questions about her judgment (in accepting the nomination), and the judgment of McCain in selecting her. If it were true, those would be relevant topics that would persist through the election. Now, the rumors of faked pregnancy will end with anyone not a partisan conspiracy theorist. Huge difference. Link to post Share on other sites
kwall Posted September 1, 2008 Share Posted September 1, 2008 None of those are good enough reasons for someone who is prolife. Those are reckless decisions, and if she had half a brain she would know that having 4 kids previous doesn't give you any kind of indication what the NEXT one will be like. Even I know that and I'm not a mom. these are reckless decisions worthy of ridicule, but a decision to kill the kid would've been an honorable and personal decision that no one has a right to comment on. Link to post Share on other sites
Party @ the Moontower Posted September 1, 2008 Share Posted September 1, 2008 You quote only me? I guess I'm the only one that has questioned Palin or McCain on this message board. Well her kid is pregnant, guess the abstinence only programs we waste tax $$$'s on is debunked Link to post Share on other sites
kwall Posted September 1, 2008 Share Posted September 1, 2008 You make it sound as if the only two choices are either abortion or getting on an airplane from Texas to Alaska while already in labor.no, just pointing out the hypocrisy. her choices made during the birth are open for anyone and everyone to criticize, but had she made the choice to abort the kid, it's a personal choice that no one can comment on. Link to post Share on other sites
MrRain422 Posted September 1, 2008 Share Posted September 1, 2008 these are reckless decisions worthy of ridicule, but a decision to kill the kid would've been an honorable and personal decision that no one has a right to comment on. That's really awesome how you're not at all misrepresenting the viewpoints that you disagree with. no, just pointing out the hypocrisy. her choices made during the birth are open for anyone and everyone to criticize, but had she made the choice to abort the kid, it's a personal choice that no one can comment on. It's not really hypocritical though if you address the actual point being made rather than your own twisted made up version. Link to post Share on other sites
ChooChooCharlie Posted September 1, 2008 Share Posted September 1, 2008 these are reckless decisions worthy of ridicule, but a decision to kill the kid would've been an honorable and personal decision that no one has a right to comment on.Kwall, I'm actually a pro-life liberal -- but the points in your post can be distinguished. Palin's "reckless" decisions while in labor with her special needs child reflect her judgment. As a candidate for arguably the 2nd most powerful position in the world, her judgment is relevant. If she were pro-choice and made a decision to abort the baby (as you analogize), this would reflect a political and moral fundamental belief -- not a reckless lapse of judgment. It would be fair to debate her pro-choice stance, but not "reckless" judgment. Link to post Share on other sites
Party @ the Moontower Posted September 1, 2008 Share Posted September 1, 2008 How many pro-lifers are stepping up and adopting kids living in horrible state funded facilites, or are in the foster care programs? How many kids have you helped? Child abuse programs? Domestic violence programs? Single mother groups? After school programs for single parents? Abortion is not a valid form of birth control, but sometimes it is the best choice. Research for 5 minutes what happens in countries where abortion is ilegal. Mom and baby die. Better choice I guess. Link to post Share on other sites
Good Old Neon Posted September 1, 2008 Share Posted September 1, 2008 The fact that she is a young earth creationist, in my opinion, makes her or anyone else who shares such a medieval, backwards, uneducated and/or just plain willfully ignorant view unfit to hold office. Honest to Christ, it is one step removed from believing the world is flat. Actually, it Link to post Share on other sites
kwall Posted September 1, 2008 Share Posted September 1, 2008 That's really awesome how you're not at all misrepresenting the viewpoints that you disagree with.thanks. It's not really hypocritical though if you address the actual point being made rather than your own twisted made up version.the point being made that she took some risks? ok, i guess i agree with that. having said that, i still say it's hypocritical to jump on her for taking a risk with the unborn child while defending her "right" to kill the unborn child. If she were pro-choice and made a decision to abort the baby (as you analogize), this would reflect a political and moral fundamental belief -- not a reckless lapse of judgment.i disagree. Link to post Share on other sites
ChooChooCharlie Posted September 1, 2008 Share Posted September 1, 2008 The fact that she is a young earth creationist, in my opinion, makes her or anyone else who shares such a medieval, backwards, uneducated and/or just plain willfully ignorant view unfit to hold office. Honest to Christ, it is one step removed from believing the world is flat. Actually, it's worse - at least those who believed the world was flat did so based on a lack of evidence to the contrary. What's Palin's excuse? Let's see, "global warming/climate change - nope, no way I'm going to believe that, but, the world is 6000 years old and all that implies, yep, I can't argue with that." I'm sorry, that is fucking retarded, and I'm not going to apologize for defining it as such. Bill Maher posts on VC!! Link to post Share on other sites
Party @ the Moontower Posted September 1, 2008 Share Posted September 1, 2008 Bill Maher posts on VC!! Bill Maher is the man! Link to post Share on other sites
kwall Posted September 1, 2008 Share Posted September 1, 2008 How many pro-lifers are stepping up and adopting kids living in horrible state funded facilites, or are in the foster care programs?i don't have the statistics - i can only speak for myself. my wife and i have adopted 2 kids after having been their foster parents and have been foster parents for 4 other kids. Abortion is not a valid form of birth control, but sometimes it is the best choice. Research for 5 minutes what happens in countries where abortion is ilegal. Mom and baby die. Better choice I guess.i researched for 30 seconds to find out that palin supports the right to an abortion when the mother's life is threatened. Link to post Share on other sites
mybenito Posted September 1, 2008 Share Posted September 1, 2008 Well, thankfully we live in a country where no one will force you to have one. Or an abortion. Not if McCain & Palin can help it. Link to post Share on other sites
ChooChooCharlie Posted September 1, 2008 Share Posted September 1, 2008 i disagree.ok........care to offer an explination? This is a discussion board, so to plainly disagree isn't very productive. Its clear no logic will change your positions, but I would still hope you have a reason for disagreement. Again, I'm pro-life (just don't let abortion alone dictate who I vote for), but you wanted to debate "recklessness." Specifically, the recklessness of Palin's choice to fly home 8 hours after her water broke with a special needs child, and to go to a smaller, less-equipped hospital, vs. the recklessness of aborting that baby. If you fundamentally believe abortion doesn't end a life (as Palin likely would if she were pro-choice, as in your analogy), then recklessness plays no part in her hypothetical decision to abort her child. Her abortion stance would be debatable as always, but not reckless judgment. As it stands now, many will view the curious decisions she made prior to giving birth, while personal in nature, as reckless. Given her choice to enter the public arena, those choices are now fair game in a way that an abortion would not be. Link to post Share on other sites
mountain bed Posted September 1, 2008 Share Posted September 1, 2008 Bill Maher is the man!Yeppers! I can't wait to see his new movie "Religulous". Link to post Share on other sites
mybenito Posted September 1, 2008 Share Posted September 1, 2008 How many pro-lifers are stepping up and adopting kids living in horrible state funded facilites, or are in the foster care programs? How many kids have you helped? Child abuse programs? Domestic violence programs? Single mother groups? After school programs for single parents?The fact that Palin's teenage daughter is pregnant fits the typical GOP profile. They care so much about the baby before it's born but do little once it is. Palin has way to many kids for a job as school principle let alone Governor (especially Vice. Prez). Her daughter is 5 monthes pregnant and Palin has been Governor for little over 1 year. Maybe if Palin had been home with her family instead of supporting big oil, then maybe her daughter wouldn't be pregnant. Having that many kids means you have to make sacrifices to be there for every one of them. Instead she chose a high profile career where all she can really do is through money at her problems. Not time to be hockey mom. My mother was pregnant with my sister at 16 and me at 18. Who knows where my sisters father is. My dad is a rabid pro-lifer right ring christian and he has pretty much aborted me after birth. I'm pro-choice. Link to post Share on other sites
kwall Posted September 1, 2008 Share Posted September 1, 2008 ok........care to offer an explination? This is a discussion board, so to plainly disagree isn't very productive.sorry, i wanted to try to avoid beating a dead horse, although it's probably too late for that. i already said, that based on the limited facts as presented, it sounds like she took somewhat of a risk. i don't know how much of a risk. the story isn't complete enough to make that determination. i would like to hear her side of the story. as of now, i don't see how it disqualifies her. if this is the issue that you hope to defeat her with, i wish you good luck. Link to post Share on other sites
kwall Posted September 1, 2008 Share Posted September 1, 2008 The fact that Palin's teenage daughter is pregnant fits the typical GOP profile.only republican daughters get "punished" with babies? They care so much about the baby before it's born but do little once it is.are you suggesting that she does little to care for her children that have been born? i haven't seen any evidence of this. Palin has way to many kids for a job as school principle let alone Governor (especially Vice. Prez).how many kids should a school principal be allowed to have? Link to post Share on other sites
ChooChooCharlie Posted September 1, 2008 Share Posted September 1, 2008 i already said, that based on the limited facts as presented, it sounds like she took somewhat of a risk. i don't know how much of a risk. the story isn't complete enough to make that determination. i would like to hear her side of the story. as of now, i don't see how it disqualifies her. if this is the issue that you hope to defeat her with, i wish you good luck. I don't hope to defeat anyone. Also, I don't think anyone on the left hopes to "defeat" her with any one issue, and certainly not this one (I never said it would "disqualify" her, as you suggest above -- I agree it wouldn't). However, it is relevant in regard to her judgment, and one piece of the puzzle. My last post merely attempted to illustrate why the analogy you made was not a fair one. Link to post Share on other sites
kwall Posted September 1, 2008 Share Posted September 1, 2008 I don't hope to defeat anyone. Also, I don't think anyone on the left hopes to "defeat" her with any one issue, and certainly not this one (I never said it would "disqualify" her, as you suggest above -- I agree it wouldn't). However, it is relevant in regard to her judgment, and one piece of the puzzle. My last post merely attempted to illustrate why the analogy you made was not a fair one.ok. cool. Link to post Share on other sites
MrRain422 Posted September 1, 2008 Share Posted September 1, 2008 i researched for 30 seconds to find out that palin supports the right to an abortion when the mother's life is threatened. So she believes that the mother's life is more valuable than the baby's? If that's a human life with full rights, then it's still murder to have an abortion whether or not the mother's life is in danger. Talk about hypocrisy. Link to post Share on other sites
ikol Posted September 1, 2008 Share Posted September 1, 2008 Does anyone realize that we are debating whether a VP candidate is qualified for the job based on how she chose to give birth? Palin has way to many kids for a job as school principle let alone Governor (especially Vice. Prez). Yeah, she should be at home taking care of the kids like a good housewife! That's a very progressive view. Link to post Share on other sites
kwall Posted September 1, 2008 Share Posted September 1, 2008 So she believes that the mother's life is more valuable than the baby's? If that's a human life with full rights, then it's still murder to have an abortion whether or not the mother's life is in danger. Talk about hypocrisy.i guess it would be akin to self-defense. Link to post Share on other sites
ChooChooCharlie Posted September 1, 2008 Share Posted September 1, 2008 Does anyone realize that we are debating whether a VP candidate is qualified for the job based on how she chose to give birth?Most of the debate has concentrated on what potentially reckless decisions she made before and while giving birth say about her judgment. Few, if anyone, is saying she isn't qualified for that one reason -- but that judgment is certainly one of many important elements in debating her qualifications. Link to post Share on other sites
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