8th election thread

[watch me fall]

It is everywhere ("I hate Illinois Nazis").

 

Having lived in the south for 20 years (yikes) there is a different nature down here. It is accepted -- among those who see themselves as elite, it's an art -- of lies and insults. I miss the Midwest where, flaws and all, someone is taken at their word, or taken for who they are. If someone has a problem or issue it's out there and that's it. Deal with it.

 

Racism, elitism and narrow mindedness is rampant among the South and comes from the most bizarre corners. It's Flannery O'Conner only you can't put the book down and go away.

 

I love living here but that attitude is the one thing I have trouble with, especially when I have racists in my own family.

[Central Scrutinizer]

True. I can count on one hand how many times I've seen/heard Cheney over the last 8 years. Course, he's not a MILF. Or a GILF.

That's because he was in the bunker, Schweinhunt!

[mountain bed]

Whaddya mean, "Palin's religious views are off-limits"? Seems like it didn't work that way for Barack. I don't see the media rolling over on this angle.

 

Q: Have you ever spoken in tongues?

 

SP: ......

 

 

See, if she says "no", the Christian Conservatives will call her out for be a hypocrite. If the answer is 'yes' then the independents will say "whoa, that's certainly not a mainstream idea".

 

The sad thing about all of this is now we're back to the old divisive bullshit we always have to go through. I'd much rather hear about the war, or the economy.

[Central Scrutinizer]

Wow I think the exact opposite.

Likability shouldn't enter into it. Who would you have more trust in running the country? Seriously?

[Party @ the Moontower]

Why is that the seemingly only important issue for feminists, though? Why or when did pro-life and feminism become mutually exclusive?

 

 

How would a man feel if the government told him what he could or could not do with his body?

 

I'ts not the most imp issue to feminist, but it continues to be a worthless issue in elections. Pro-lifers keep throwing in women's face on a daily basis. Religion is in my face every where I go. I don't see non-religious people knocking on doors trying to convert. One more Mormon comes to my door....

 

There's not a whole lot of what she's said to hang onto. What little has been pretty empty. I don't see anything to get excited over. What substance do you and the "American people and especially independents love" about Ms. Palin? Is it a Jerry Springer kind of love? A reality TV kind of love? A latest download MILF video kind of love? She's running for elected office. Please explain to me what there is that she brings of value to the office? Concrete?

 

"Anyone who says anthing against Palin is either afraid of her or jealous" pretty much shows where you're coming from. I don't expect a competent answer to my previous question for that reason. Anyone who can offer a competent viewpoint, I'm interested.

Good post!

[Central Scrutinizer]

I am certainly hoping that as more facts and realities about Palin and her beliefs come to light, that 20 point number will dwindle.

If the Democrats want to deal with her competently, it would be to not get worked up and frothy about her. Dismiss her with the facts. Calm rhetoric over attacks. From what I've seen Obama realizes this election isn't being won today, it's what you do between now and election day. This vitriol is misplaced. Rather than bitching here about Palin, talk to women you know who are considering her. Listen to them. Talk calmly with then. Avoid bias and party prejudice.

 

Well I can only speak for myself in that I prefer to have a choice in the matter. Pro-lifers want to take that choice away from me.

 

 

 

Are you asking me? Because I'm not the author of the original post, I just reposted it here.

Wow, I apologize. And two noogies for that person if I ever find them by golly ...

[Central Scrutinizer]

I love living here but that attitude is the one thing I have trouble with, especially when I have racists in my own family.

... especially when you see these sweet little old ladies, who if someone did a lynching on their front lawn, they'd put down a dropcloth to make sure her lawn doesn't get soiled, then go get her whip.

[watch me fall]

Another thing that bothers me about labelling Palin as a feminist, is that it seems like not so long ago, alot of Repubs thought that was a bad thing. Oooh Hillary Clinton is a feminist, she's going to ruin our country. If anything, I'd say its because of feminism that Palin is allowed the opportunity she's been given but she's not necessarily a feminist.

[bleedorange]

Well I can only speak for myself in that I prefer to have a choice in the matter. Pro-lifers want to take that choice away from me.

 

How would a man feel if the government told him what he could or could not do with his body?

 

I'ts not the most imp issue to feminist, but it continues to be a worthless issue in elections. Pro-lifers keep throwing in women's face on a daily basis. Religion is in my face every where I go. I don't see non-religious people knocking on doors trying to convert. One more Mormon comes to my door....

 

 

I don't want to get into another abortion debate (especially since I don't find myself in either camp). I have just always thought that feminism encompassed a whole lot more than just being pro-choice. I know plenty of women that I would consider feminists who are pro-life. Things like equal pay, equal opportunities for success, ability to succeed in all sorts of careers without being subjected to typical chauvinism, etc., seem to fit more in with what feminism is (or, at least, what I've always considered feminism to be).

[watch me fall]

... especially when you see these sweet little old ladies, who if someone did a lynching on their front lawn, they'd put down a dropcloth to make sure her lawn doesn't get soiled, then go get her whip.

Yep. I can't talk politics with my 91 year old grandmother. It's pointless. She almost disowned one of my cousins for dating a black guy. Sort of ironic, though, that she loved my cousin's first husband who was from Iran.

[JUDE]

Likability shouldn't enter into it. Who would you have more trust in running the country? Seriously?

 

 

Sorry, but Biden come off as a smug and arrogant prick IMO. He seems to view himself as being the "smartest person in the room" a majority of the time and I'm sure he would assume that I'm not smart enough to do what's best for myself, my family, or my local community, hence the necessity for him to make those decisions for me.

 

And if you don't think likeability or impressions are at least part of the equation you are delirious. This goes for more than just politics.

[John Smith]

Sorry, but Biden come off as a smug and arrogant prick IMO. He seems to view himself as being the "smartest person in the room" a majority of the time and I'm sure he would assume that I'm not smart enough to do what's best for myself, my family, or my local community, hence the necessity for him to make those decisions for me.

 

And if you don't think likeability or impressions are at least part of the equation you are delirious. This goes for more than just politics.

 

But if he is ina room with McCain and Palin he probably is the smartest one in the room. Maybe even smarter than Obama. As to image etc... if the election truely were down to just isssues the dems woudl win hands down. during the 2004 elections somewhere in MI a teacher gave the kids a listing of each candidates positions on a number of issues, but not the candidates names. The kids voted overwhelmingly democratic. Sure these were kids but the reaction to the election was typical of the right wing. A number of parents attempted to have the teacher fired for this.

 

But again I must say that if you think Biden is smug and he is the only one then you nneed too either look around a bit more and notice the smugness of the republican party as a whole, and people like Bush and dirty diick in particular or you need to simply state here is my postitions I'm done.

[Central Scrutinizer]

Sorry, but Biden come off as a smug and arrogant prick IMO. He seems to view himself as being the "smartest person in the room" a majority of the time and I'm sure he would assume that I'm not smart enough to do what's best for myself, my family, or my local community, hence the necessity for him to make those decisions for me.

 

And if you don't think likeability or impressions are at least part of the equation you are delirious. This goes for more than just politics.

Alright, it's impossible for likability not enter into it. But, other than knowing your political views, I would think you'd still want to justify why you think Biden is a smug and arrogant prick because when some prick like me asks, "you mean your entire political view is based on what you 'think' of him. Surely you can justify that opinion?"

 

Otherwise, just passing him off for your knee-jerk bias is being delirious, or worse, you're being a smug and arrogant prick.

[Central Scrutinizer]

Sorry, but Biden come off as a smug and arrogant prick IMO. He seems to view himself as being the "smartest person in the room" a majority of the time and I'm sure he would assume that I'm not smart enough to do what's best for myself, my family, or my local community, hence the necessity for him to make those decisions for me.

 

And if you don't think likeability or impressions are at least part of the equation you are delirious. This goes for more than just politics.

 

Where, then, does "qualifications" factor over personal bias? Because you often make a point of shooting down others' personal biases (no matter how crudely or respectfully stated)?

[JUDE]

Alright, it's impossible for likability not enter into it. But, other than knowing your political views, I would think you'd still want to justify why you think Biden is a smug and arrogant prick because when some prick like me asks, "you mean your entire political view is based on what you 'think' of him. Surely you can justify that opinion?"

 

Otherwise, just passing him off for your knee-jerk bias is being delirious, or worse, you're being a smug and arrogant prick.

I may be smug and arrogant but I've also noticed quite a few posters in here who seem to exemplify that very quality. I may not be the smartest guy in the room but I'm pretty good at taking care of things close to home and making well thought out decisions, regardless of what you may think.

[Central Scrutinizer]

I may be smug and arrogant but I've also noticed quite a few posters in here who seem to exemplify that very quality. I may not be the smartest guy in the room but I'm pretty good at taking care of things close to home and making well thought out decisions, regardless of what you may think.

How are you at international issues? I can explain the VP role, and you may be more qualified than the person either party has selected, apparently.

 

Seriously, you should take care of things close to home, and through our federal/state separation of powers, you should. But you can't take care of everything, so we have to, based on our system of government, elect those to take care of those things we can't. Why do you feel Palin would better be able to do that than Biden?

[Duck-Billed Catechist]

Huffington: Palin is a trojan Moose

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/..._moose_con.html

[IRememberDBoon]

Palin Billed State for Nights Spent at Home

Taxpayers Also Funded Family's Travel

 

By James V. Grimaldi and Karl Vick

Washington Post Staff Writers

Tuesday, September 9, 2008; A01

 

 

 

ANCHORAGE, Sept. 8 -- Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin has billed taxpayers for 312 nights spent in her own home during her first 19 months in office, charging a "per diem" allowance intended to cover meals and incidental expenses while traveling on state business.

 

The governor also has charged the state for travel expenses to take her children on official out-of-town missions. And her husband, Todd, has billed the state for expenses and a daily allowance for trips he makes on official business for his wife.

 

Palin, who earns $125,000 a year, claimed and received $16,951 as her allowance, which officials say was permitted because her official "duty station" is Juneau, according to an analysis of her travel documents by The Washington Post.

 

The governor's daughters and husband charged the state $43,490 to travel, and many of the trips were between their house in Wasilla and Juneau, the capital city 600 miles away, the documents show.

 

Gubernatorial spokeswoman Sharon Leighow said Monday that Palin's expenses are not unusual and that, under state policy, the first family could have claimed per diem expenses for each child taken on official business but has not done so.

 

Before she became the Republican Party's vice presidential nominee, Palin was little known outside Alaska. Now, with the campaign emphasizing her executive experience, her record as mayor of Wasilla, as a state oil-and-gas commissioner and as governor is receiving intense scrutiny.

 

During her speech at the Republican National Convention last week, Palin cast herself as a crusader for fiscal rectitude as Alaska's governor. She noted that she sold a state-owned plane used by the former governor. "While I was at it, I got rid of a few things in the governor's office that I didn't believe our citizens should have to pay for," she said to loud applause.

 

Speaking from Palin's Anchorage office, Leighow said Palin dealt with the plane and also trimmed other expenses, including forgoing a chef in the governor's mansion because she preferred to cook for her family. The first family's travel is an expected part of the job, she said.

 

"As a matter of protocol, the governor and the first family are expected to attend community events across the state," she said. "It's absolutely reasonable that the first family participates in community events."

 

The state finance director, Kim Garnero, said Alaska law exempts the governor's office from elaborate travel regulations. Said Leighow: "The governor is entitled to a per diem, and she claims it."

 

The popular governor collected the per diem allowance from April 22, four days after the birth of her fifth child, until June 3, when she flew to Juneau for two days. Palin moved her family to the capital during the legislative session last year, but prefers to stay in Wasilla and drive 45 miles to Anchorage to a state office building where she conducts most of her business, aides have said.

 

Palin rarely sought reimbursement for meals while staying in Anchorage or Wasilla, the reports show.

 

She wrote some form of "Lodging -- own residence" or "Lodging -- Wasilla residence" more than 30 times at the same time she took a per diem, according to the reports. In two dozen undated amendments to the reports, the governor deleted the reference to staying in her home but still charged the per diem.

 

Palin charged the state a per diem for working on Nov. 22, 2007 -- Thanksgiving Day. The reason given, according to the expense report, was the Great Alaska Shootout, an annual NCAA college basketball tournament held in Anchorage.

 

In separate filings, the state was billed about $25,000 for Palin's daughters' expenses and $19,000 for her husband's.

 

Flights topped the list for the most expensive items, and the daughter whose bill was the highest was Piper, 7, whose flights cost nearly $11,000, while Willow, 14, claimed about $6,000 and Bristol, 17, accounted for about $3,400.

 

One event was in New York City in October 2007, when Bristol accompanied the governor to Newsweek's third annual Women and Leadership Conference, toured the New York Stock Exchange and met local officials and business executives. The state paid for three nights in a $707-a-day hotel room. Garnero said the governor's office has the authority to approve hotel stays above $300.

 

Asked Monday about the official policy on charging for children's travel expenses, Garnero said: "We cover the expenses of anyone who's conducting state business. I can't imagine kids could be doing that."

 

But Leighow said many of the hundreds of invitations Palin receives include requests for her to bring her family, placing the definition of "state business" with the party extending the invitation.

 

One such invitation came in October 2007, when Willow flew to Juneau to join the Palin family on a tour of the Hub Juneau Christian Teen Center, where Palin and her family worship when they are in Juneau. The state gave the center $25,000, according to a May 2008 memo.

 

Leighow noted that under state policy, all of the governor's children are entitled to per diem expenses, even her infant son. "The first family declined the per diem [for] the children," Leighow said. "The amount that they had declined was $4,461, as of August 5."

 

The family also charged for flights around the state, including trips to Alaska events such as the start of the Iditarod dog-sled race and the Iron Dog snowmobile race, a contest that Todd Palin won.

 

Meanwhile, Todd Palin spent $725 to fly to Edmonton, Alberta, for "information gathering and planning meeting with Northern Alberta Institute of Technology," according to an expense report. During the three-day trip, he charged the state $291 for his per diem. A notation said "costs paid by Dept. of Labor." He also billed the state $1,371 for a flight to Washington to attend a National Governors Association meeting with his wife.

 

Gov. Palin has spent far less on her personal travel than her predecessor: $93,000 on airfare in 2007, compared with $463,000 spent the year before by her predecessor, Frank Murkowski. He traveled often in an executive jet that Palin called an extravagance during her campaign. She sold it after she was sworn into office.

 

"She flies coach and encourages her cabinet to fly coach as well," said Garnero, whose job is equivalent to state controller. "Some do, some don't."

 

Leighow said that the governor's staff has tallied the travel expenses charged by Murkowski's wife: $35,675 in 2006, $43,659 in 2005, $13,607 in 2004 and $29,608 in 2003. Associates of Murkowski said the former governor was moose hunting and could not be reached to comment.

 

In the past, per diem claims by Alaska state officials have carried political risks. In 1988, the head of the state Commerce Department was pilloried for collecting a per diem charge of $50 while staying in his Anchorage home, according to local news accounts. The commissioner, the late Tony Smith, resigned amid a series of controversies.

 

"It was quite the little scandal," said Tony Knowles, the Democratic governor from 1994 to 2000. "I gave a direction to all my commissioners if they were ever in their house, whether it was Juneau or elsewhere, they were not to get a per diem because, clearly, it is and it looks like a scam -- you pay yourself to live at home," he said.

 

Knowles, whose children were school-age at the start of his first term, said that his wife sometimes accompanied him to conferences overseas but that he could "count on one hand" the number of times his children accompanied him.

 

"And the policy was not to reimburse for family travel on commercial airlines, because there is no direct public benefit to schlepping kids around the state," he said. The rules were articulated by Mike Nizich, then director of administrative services in the governor's office, said Knowles and an aide to another former governor, Walter Hickel.

 

Nizich is now Palin's chief of staff. He did not return a phone call seeking comment. The rules governing family travel on state-owned aircraft appear less clear. Knowles said he operated under the understanding that immediate family could accompany the governor without charge.

 

But during the Murkowski years, that practice was questioned, and the state attorney general's office produced an opinion saying laws then in effect required reimbursement for spousal travel.

 

Research editor Alice Crites in Washington contributed to this report.

[mfwahl]

Yeah, this reform message is pretty much an insult to voters.

[Central Scrutinizer]

Palin Billed State for Nights Spent at Home

Taxpayers Also Funded Family's Travel

 

By James V. Grimaldi and Karl Vick

Washington Post Staff Writers

Tuesday, September 9, 2008; A01

 

ANCHORAGE, Sept. 8 -- Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin has billed taxpayers for 312 nights spent in her own home during her first 19 months in office, charging a "per diem" allowance intended to cover meals and incidental expenses while traveling on state business.

 

The governor also has charged the state for travel expenses to take her children on official out-of-town missions. And her husband, Todd, has billed the state for expenses and a daily allowance for trips he makes on official business for his wife.

 

Palin, who earns $125,000 a year, claimed and received $16,951 as her allowance, which officials say was permitted because her official "duty station" is Juneau, according to an analysis of her travel documents by The Washington Post.

 

The governor's daughters and husband charged the state $43,490 to travel, and many of the trips were between their house in Wasilla and Juneau, the capital city 600 miles away, the documents show.

 

You know, while I can understand the legitimate travel expenses for the governor and her family, it raises the issue about travel cost, secret service protection, logistics of having a larger family like that as vice president. Then there's day care issues for the youngest. That's a lot of staff. Isn't a vote for Palin a vote for bigger government?

[Duck-Billed Catechist]

You know, while I can understand the legitimate travel expenses for the governor and her family, it raises the issue about travel cost, secret service protection, logistics of having a larger family like that as vice president. Then there's day care issues for the youngest. That's a lot of staff. Isn't a vote for Palin a vote for bigger government?

That's kind of a stretch.

[Central Scrutinizer]

That's kind of a stretch.

It was a joke.

[Analogman]

Hillary backers come to defense of Palin

 

Jonathan Martin 1 hour, 38 minutes ago

 

The leaders of a women's political organization that launched earlier this year to support Hillary Clinton are speaking out against what they say are examples of media sexism toward Sarah Palin and urging members to tell the press corps "to back off."

 

WomenCount, a group co-founded by top Hillary fundraiser Susie Tompkins Buell, posted a lengthy item on their blog decrying questions over whether Palin can, as a mother of five, juggle her family responsibilities and still be vice president.

 

"The very notion that Sarah Palin should not have accepted this nomination because she is a mother with demanding challenges underscores just how far we have to go," wrote Rosemary Camposano, the group's communications director.

 

She added: "It will be good for America to watch Sarah Palin on the campaign trail

[Sir Stewart]

The only times I ever hear about the question of whether it's appropriate for Palin to be a nominee and a mom is when people are decrying it - I've never actually heard the question on its own.

It's as if she was introduced thusly: "Presenting VP nominee Sarah Palin, who's a mom - how dare you suggest she shouldn't be the nominee because she's a mom!"

[Artifice]

RACIST AND NSFW!!!!

 

I was going to post this, then deleted it, now posting it again.

 

because it just goes to show that there is an unfortunate ugly and racist side to our society. it's disappointing. it's really offensive, so if there's a problem, I'll gladly delete it.

 

There's no way that's real.

 

If that gal is an Obama supporter, she just discredited his cause.