Degenerex Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 anyone have any idea how long this will be up? Sorry if this was asked already, I don't have time to go through all the threads. My job sucks. Link to post Share on other sites
howdjadoo Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 Sorry,can't help it to be a tad recall. Link to post Share on other sites
solace Posted May 13, 2009 Author Share Posted May 13, 2009 I don't know about that.the melody is there or it isn't. and that can be a guitar melody, vocal melody, keyboard, whatever. find me an amazing song that is only great because of it's production and that has nothing to do with it's bare music being good. Link to post Share on other sites
MattZ Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 I know everyone says this, but I don't see what's wrong with taking the negative viewpoint in a thread - I don't think I'm being rude, and am happy to discuss it. It's only an album, after all. I could discuss how disappointed I was with the last Super Furry Animals album if anyone was interested here, but they're not. I agree with you. I misinterpreted your comments/joke. I'd be interested in hearing what you don't like about the album. Let's talk about the music instead of each other. I'll go first -- how confidently can you judge the production on an album that you've heard either through downloaded mp3s or streaming over the internet? Link to post Share on other sites
solace Posted May 13, 2009 Author Share Posted May 13, 2009 I agree with you. I misinterpreted your comments/joke. I'd be interested in hearing what you don't like about the album. Let's talk about the music instead of each other. I'll go first -- how confidently can you judge the production on an album that you've heard either through downloaded mp3s or streaming over the internet? true... while this is a higher quality stream than a lot of albums, i can definitely hear a lot of compression artifacts. Link to post Share on other sites
fatheadfred Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 I'm loving everything about "Sonny Feeling." Especially the harmonies. But absolutely everything that is going on in that song.Yeah, the only song that has stood out so far for me as a first listen gem; can't understand the praise for BBN, kind of an annoying song. Link to post Share on other sites
Synthesizer Patel Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 great production can help a good song be better, but no amount of shitty production can kill a great song (see most any song recorded prior to 1968) hmmm. well that's just not true at all. production, in the sense i am talking, also includes choices of instrument, choice of tempo etc... as well - it's not just how they mixed or mastered something. and the production values of motown, sun, stax, atlantic, phil spectors work etc.... is still copied today. listen to Da Do Ron Ron and tell me if that is a good song because of the production or just because the song on paper was so good. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Speed Racer Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 hmmm. well that's just not true at all. production, in the sense i am talking, also includes choices of instrument, choice of tempo etc... as well - it's not just how they mixed or mastered something. and the production values of motown, sun, stax, atlantic, phil spectors work etc.... is still copied today. listen to Da Do Ron Ron and tell me if that is a good song because of the production or just because the song on paper was so good. So now you're saying it doesn't matter about the production because you don't like the songs? Fair point, to be sure, but it entirely changes your argument. Link to post Share on other sites
EL the Famous Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 i swear to god there is a tune were it sounds like J.T. cribbed the 'i'd like to buy the word a coke' commercial. one listen so far and i like it better than SBS, but that ain't saying much. i'll spend more time w/it later today. Link to post Share on other sites
intodeep Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 I hate my job right now. I so want to be home listening to this. I have not heard it yet, but it is waiting for me at home. Link to post Share on other sites
Synthesizer Patel Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 I agree with you. I misinterpreted your comments/joke. I'd be interested in hearing what you don't like about the album. Let's talk about the music instead of each other. I'll go first -- how confidently can you judge the production on an album that you've heard either through downloaded mp3s or streaming over the internet? I can only base that judgement on past experience. Obviously the vinyl or cd version will sound better, but that is the case with all other albums that leak and I think are good or bad production wise. The things that I really don't like about it are the acoustic guitar sound (which I can put money on is recorded through a pick-up like Tweedy plays on stage) - now that is done from what I'd guess, because the people doing the producing want to make life easy. An acoustic guitar recorded through a mic takes up far more frequencies across the sound spectrum than it does using a pick-up, so it's easier to make it stand out. Trouble is that it sounds shit. Also using a keyboard instead of a real piano has the same effect - in fact piano is incredibly hard to record well and make it fit in the mix. To record piano and make it not make the sound of everything muddy and lower in volume is very hard to do, which is actually why honky tonk piano often sounds best on many albums - cos it's got no real bottom end, and so can cut through the mix and not swamp the sound. The easy option is just to use a keyboard. Easy, but it doesn't sound as good. I also can't hear the bass through my speakers, and the drums sound compressed. I just don't like it. Compared to AGIB, which I think was one of the best sounding modern rock albums I can think of, this just sounds very very average. Link to post Share on other sites
solace Posted May 13, 2009 Author Share Posted May 13, 2009 hmmm. well that's just not true at all. production, in the sense i am talking, also includes choices of instrument, choice of tempo etc... as wellthose types of things are not usually considered part of production sorry, that's part of the songwriting craft (ESPECIALLY tempo, but what instrument to use as well) now if you're talking what amps, pedals, effects, etc. used, fine. Link to post Share on other sites
Synthesizer Patel Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 So now you're saying it doesn't matter about the production because you don't like the songs? Fair point, to be sure, but it entirely changes your argument. no. when did i say that! stop picking on me! i said that production is very important to whether a song is good or not, solace seemed to be saying that production can't make a good song bad - i was trying to say that it can, but i seemed to do that in reverse! Link to post Share on other sites
solace Posted May 13, 2009 Author Share Posted May 13, 2009 no. when did i say that! stop picking on me! i said that production is very important to whether a song is good or not, solace seemed to be saying that production can't make a good song bad - i was trying to say that it can, but i seemed to do that in reverse! i said a GREAT song bad... get that straight surely a merely good song can be hurt by bad production. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Speed Racer Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 (which I can put money on is recorded through a pick-up like Tweedy plays on stage) Wilco has extensively documented (WB, IATTBYH, SBS DVD) that it absolutely DOES NOT cut corners on recording, and I think it's almost an insult to the band that you would insinuate (in this statement and other parts of your post) that they would have taken the easy way out. I think you're listening to a ripped, mp3 copy of the album and it probably sounds like a ripped mp3 copy. Link to post Share on other sites
dunnright00 Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 OK, a minor thing, but is anyone else hearing the melody of "On and On and On" in "I'll Fight"? Yeah I hear it. In fact I've been finding myself singing I'll Fight in my head, and next thing I know I'm humming On an On... Link to post Share on other sites
Synthesizer Patel Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 those types of things are not usually considered part of production sorry, that's part of the songwriting craft (ESPECIALLY tempo, but what instrument to use as well) now if you're talking what amps, pedals, effects, etc. used, fine. producers definately tell bands to play in different tempos and what instruments to play, of course it's part of production. an engineer is more likely to deal with amps etc.. and then the producer will say yes or no and blah blah blah. Link to post Share on other sites
Synthesizer Patel Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 Wilco has extensively documented (WB, IATTBYH, SBS DVD) that it absolutely DOES NOT cut corners on recording, and I think it's almost an insult to the band that you would insinuate (in this statement and other parts of your post) that they would have taken the easy way out. I think you're listening to a ripped, mp3 copy of the album and it probably sounds like a ripped mp3 copy. so you're saying he's not recorded his guitar parts through a pick-up (santa cruz acoustic, i think it is) and the piano is a real piano? Link to post Share on other sites
fatheadfred Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 Jeff needs to tone it down on You & I so I can hear the chick. Is this a Fleetwood Mac impersonation? BBN is getting more annoying each time. Link to post Share on other sites
Synthesizer Patel Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 i said a GREAT song bad... get that straight surely a merely good song can be hurt by bad production. How many great songs have bad production? It's all part of the same package - a great song needs great production to make it great. Link to post Share on other sites
cryptique Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 On my third listen ... sounds good so far, but I'm withholding my full opinion for a later time. I'm not thoroughly convinced yet by "Country Disappeared," "Solitaire," and "I'll Fight," and I'm not sure I hear as much greatness in "Sonny Feeling" as many of you do (though I definitely hear some). The first half of the record is rock-solid in my book, but I still need to work through my feelings about the rest of it. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Speed Racer Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 How many great songs have bad production? It's all part of the same package - a great song needs great production to make it great. And it's subjective! I have an Elliott Smith b-side that sounds like it was recording on a cassette player in another room and converted to mp3, but it's a damned good song. The quality of the recording (including production) means not a damned thing to me if the song itself is top notch. You're talking about the artifact, which to me is something entirely separate than the song. And from what I've seen/read on all the DVDs/Wilco Book, Wilco have recorded pianos with pianos, and guitars with mics. Link to post Share on other sites
solace Posted May 13, 2009 Author Share Posted May 13, 2009 producers definately tell bands to play in different tempos and what instruments to play, of course it's part of production. an engineer is more likely to deal with amps etc.. and then the producer will say yes or no and blah blah blah.sometimes for sure they do, but more often than not they don't get that involved.it's a double-edged sword imo, overbearing producers vs. producers who don't ask enough of bands. and a lot of times the engineer is the same person as the producer, so there's also that. How many great songs have bad production? It's all part of the same package - a great song needs great production to make it great.oh man... if you truly believe this i feel really really sorry for you and I don't think i can continue arguing at this point. a TRULY great song needs no production at all and stands on its own played by a person on just an acoustic guitar or piano live in front of people. Link to post Share on other sites
Sir Stewart Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 the melody is there or it isn't. and that can be a guitar melody, vocal melody, keyboard, whatever. find me an amazing song that is only great because of it's production and that has nothing to do with it's bare music being good. I took Aman's "I don't know about that" to be a reply to your "any record before 1968" statement - meaning, early rock n roll is not automatically poorly produced, aka better technology does not equal better production. Link to post Share on other sites
mfwahl Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 This album clicked right away for me. I hope that ends up being a good thing. I think it will because I notice emotion translated really well on this album. SBS reminded of a Grateful Dead record - a collection of songs faithfully put to tape that were meant to be played live. This one here is a real record. One Wing, You And I, and Everlasting are standouts for me right now. I loved One Wing live (real gritty and spacy), I love this version (sorry for the pun, but it soars; it sounds great and very emotionally resonant), and I can't wait to see this live in the future. I hope they don't hold back on this one because it is kind of restrained on the record (Don't get me wrong I think it's perfect for a recorded version, but live they need to get crazy) Anyone else with me on the emotionally resonant thing? I'm really "feeling" a lot of these songs. It's hard to put that into words, but you know kind of choked up at certain moments? Link to post Share on other sites
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