Synthesizer Patel Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 Who??? What major record was mixed on shitty speakers? LouieB i think a lot of chart music is compressed to silly degrees simply to make it sound good on the radio. the type of music we listen to, though, that rarely occurs. i wouldn't say people mix of shitty speakers, and i don't think brian wilson did as such, he certainly checked to make sure it sounded good on them, though. but, what is more amazing - and what makes his productions great - is that it sounds not only good on shitty speaker, but incredible on good speakers too. which is, as i said, a mark of good production. Link to post Share on other sites
replacements75 Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 Who??? What major record was mixed on shitty speakers? LouieB I think the implication that was trying to be made was that maybe after mixing on a great Studio set up a lot of producers will give it a listen on a shitty set up to see how it translates. I feel like I read somewhere that Jeff likes to take the rough mixes and listen to them in his car while he drives around. In fact there is a scene in I Am Trying to Break Your Heart where he is listening to an early version of YHF, isn't there? Link to post Share on other sites
cooperissup3r Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 All I know is that I can't wait to hear Bull Black Nova live (June 15th, to be exact). heyyyy i'll be at that show too, if everything goes according to plan. Link to post Share on other sites
Synthesizer Patel Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 I am picturing you listening to Animal Collective instead of posting silly comments in a thread about an album that people seem to be enjoying. it was just a musical joke, based on the fact that sly stone's bulldog killed and then raped sly's pet baboon, and also would attack anyone that came to the house wearing a hat. i suppose the joke was a little bit silly, but if you are calling it silly cos you didn't get the references - i hope that helps. Link to post Share on other sites
Central Scrutinizer Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 On my second listen through, but I'm happy. It has a retro feel to it, the Harrison references are noted. Nels' lap steel is insidious, creeping up and out here and there, not in classical steel guitar mode, but with a bit of a twist. One one real downer IMHO is You and I, which I could have done without. If I didn't know better, I'd say that song is angling for air play -- Wilco's "The One I Love." If nothing else, it serves as a palette cleaner, after the stellar Bull Black Nova Most of it's cozy. Some great 70s-vibe harmonies, particularly in "You Never Know," which sounds like the iconic Side Two starter song. Their emphasis is definitely guitar-based, but the keyboards and sound find nice places to rest and fill out overall tones of songs. Yanking the ending guitar noodle from the recorded version of One Wing was an interesting choice. And it nestles right in there at the Impossible Germany slot. Some of the soul touches from SBS, like Country Disappeared. Something for everyone, songs pay homage to each step in the band's development. "Automatic for the people!" Link to post Share on other sites
cryptique Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 it was just a musical joke, based on the fact that sly stone's bulldog killed and then raped sly's pet baboon, and also would attack anyone that came to the house wearing a hat.Someone tell Wilco not to take the camel to Sly's house. Link to post Share on other sites
replacements75 Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 So about an hour ago, between reading all these posts and finally listening to WTA on something other than my tiny headphones (a la last night at 1 in the morning) I refreshed the Wilco store to see a box that said Vinyl/ T-Shirt preorder with no pic or anything but after a minute or two when I refreshed it was gone. Testing phase of course but it has gotten me excited for what is to come with the preorder. Link to post Share on other sites
Analogman Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 i think a lot of chart music is compressed to silly degrees simply to make it sound good on the radio. the type of music we listen to, though, that rarely occurs. i wouldn't say people mix of shitty speakers, and i don't think brian wilson did as such, he certainly checked to make sure it sounded good on them, though. but, what is more amazing - and what makes his productions great - is that it sounds not only good on shitty speaker, but incredible on good speakers too. which is, as i said, a mark of good production. I don't know if all this discussion makes sense exactly. I would think that they had whatever was the top of the line for the time period in question. It could be what we are really talking about is A&M radio, and how bands would tailor singles to sound good coming out of a transistor radio, or car speaker. I have read that he would listen to things that way to see if it worked, but there was a lot of other bands that did that also. I have read that these days, albums are mixed or whatever, with the idea of iTunes and the whole Mp3 culture in mind. At least - for some groups, not all. I would think this does not apply to Wilco, as they are what we used to call an album band, rather than a singles band. I still say it partly comes down to analogue versus digital recording. Although - as Steven Van Zandt once said, at some point you have to do the work in digital these days. Link to post Share on other sites
J_Lefty Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 One one real downer IMHO is You and I, which I could have done without. If I didn't know better, I'd say that song is angling for air play -- Wilco's "The One I Love." If nothing else, it serves as a palette cleaner, after the stellar Bull Black Nova This track def. left a sickly sweet taste in my mouth... I think this is their poppy track to get onto the iPod commercials. Link to post Share on other sites
Synthesizer Patel Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 Someone tell Wilco not to take the camel to Sly's house. he's doubly at risk there, being an animal and wearing a hat. but, i don't think the bulldog could jump high enough without a helping hand from sly. if he hadn't gone and killed the baboon, he could have got on his shoulders . . . que sera sera . . . (another sneaky sly reference again) Link to post Share on other sites
people are leaving Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 I think the idea was not that albums are mixed on shitty speakers, but that at some point during the process, some producers check their work on shitty speakers to make sure it sounds good on those, too. That's correct. "Real world" speakers are generally what's used when mixing records. When you want to get excited by the "sound" of the tracks, it's very common to switch to another set of speakers. While they sound generally horrible during playback, Yamaha NS-10's are still used for mixing records. The reason being tracks that sound good on playback tend to sound amazing in any other listening environment. That's one example. The obvious last resort is taking a disc out to the car to listen as well. Link to post Share on other sites
kidsmoke Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 What the hell is Kid (space) Smoke??? Who, me? I'm right here, buried up to my earballs in up-too-loud-or-is-there-such-a-thing-? "Bull Black Nova" Ok, I'm not good at the erudite dissection of a new album, note for note and influence for influence. I react to good music more like...well, this, as I emailed a friend: "I'm so damned happy right now....they really have outdone themselves! The thing is gorgeous, fresh, wistful, brazen,hopeful, happy, finger-snappingly-feet-gotta-dance wonderfulness. My head is gonna be lost in this music for a very long time." Holy damn this is terrific. I love that Jeff's voice is mixed far front. Neato harmonies, groovy rhythms.... I'm a goner with a big dumb grin on my face. Also, as my dog Noodle will tell you, dogs are not as into dancing as some fairly ridiculous humans seem to be. And let me the first to state the obvious: This is the album that is going to put this country back on its feet. Hey, has kidsmoke ever lied to you? Well, then. Link to post Share on other sites
spartanfan10 Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 Really enjoy it. I remember reading that this album was going to use the studio as a tool more like Summerteeth and Yankee but it certainly seems to be even more straightforward and live feeling than Sky Blue. It clearly hits the target it's aiming for, I think I just enjoy a more complex Wilco? That being said, I really enjoyed it and can't wait to get another listen to it. I love Wilco. Link to post Share on other sites
MattZ Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 it was just a musical joke, based on the fact that sly stone's bulldog killed and then raped sly's pet baboon, and also would attack anyone that came to the house wearing a hat. i suppose the joke was a little bit silly, but if you are calling it silly cos you didn't get the references - i hope that helps. It wasn't a reference to the joke. It was a reference to the fact that it sounds like you don't like the record. And that's cool. But then why not listen to something you like and post about that (I seem to remember you are a big AC fan)? Either way, alls good. Baboons, camels, bulldogs. Link to post Share on other sites
Killer Whales Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 I think the idea was not that albums are mixed on shitty speakers, but that at some point during the process, some producers check their work on shitty speakers to make sure it sounds good on those, too. Yes, thank you. That's exactly my point Link to post Share on other sites
gogo Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 I want to see them live.After hearing this the first time (yes, at our basement show, I'm bragging), that is exactly what I said to Tweedy. And he said "Thank you." Bull Black Nova bends me over my desk and fucks me. Gently. Firmly. Maybe reaches around and cradles my balls a bit.Hee! Not feeling this so far (through Bull Black Nova).Contrarian! You Never Know is what you'd get if Everday People by Sly and the Family Stone married My Sweet Lord and Wilco played the wedding. I've been downloading, but won't be able to listen for a while. Although, I do have a nice long plane trip coming up this weekend. Link to post Share on other sites
bleedorange Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 I'm loving everything about "Sonny Feeling." Especially the harmonies. But absolutely everything that is going on in that song. Link to post Share on other sites
Dude Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 And let me the first to state the obvious: This is the album that is going to put this country back on its feet. Hey, has kidsmoke ever lied to you? Well, then. Nice review Donna, this but a big sloppy grin on my face. Link to post Share on other sites
W(TF) Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 I love this record. :rock :rock Link to post Share on other sites
Synthesizer Patel Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 It wasn't a reference to the joke. It was a reference to the fact that it sounds like you don't like the record. And that's cool. But then why not listen to something you like and post about that (I seem to remember you are a big AC fan)? Either way, alls good. Baboons, camels, bulldogs. I haven't made my mind up about whether I like the songs on the album yet, all I've said is I don't like the production. It's going to take me a lot more listens to make up my mind about the songs - I always listen to the sound of an album first few listens, and this doesn't float my boat (it almost sounds like it was recorded in the 1990s to me, actaully). Jeff Tweedy is a brilliant song writer, so I've no doubt the songs are good, and I'll come round a bit in the future to the production, i'm sure. But, I was expecting more from them in terms of the sound of the album I guess - I personally think they're missing Jim O'Rourke, or someone with a bit more skill in shaping the sound of an album, like they did on the last album too. I know everyone says this, but I don't see what's wrong with taking the negative viewpoint in a thread - I don't think I'm being rude, and am happy to discuss it. It's only an album, after all. I could discuss how disappointed I was with the last Super Furry Animals album if anyone was interested here, but they're not. Link to post Share on other sites
solace Posted May 13, 2009 Author Share Posted May 13, 2009 I'm loving everything about "Sonny Feeling." Especially the harmonies. But absolutely everything that is going on in that song. i'll bite. it's their best pop song and best melody line since 'Shot In The Arm' Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Speed Racer Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 i'll bite. it's their best pop song and best melody line since 'Shot In The Arm' And all the more refreshing since I've only heard it twice and not 9,456,394 times! Link to post Share on other sites
solace Posted May 13, 2009 Author Share Posted May 13, 2009 I haven't made my mind up about whether I like the songs on the album yet, all I've said is I don't like the production. It's going to take me a lot more listens to make up my mind about that - I always listen to the sound of an album first few listens, and this doesn't float my boat (it almost sounds like it was recorded in the 1990s to me, actaully).as someone who has worked in a studio and def notices production more than the average listener, i feel bad for you if the first thing you listen for is the production. listen for the songs first, then judge the production. great production can help a good song be better, but no amount of shitty production can kill a great song (see most any song recorded prior to 1968) Link to post Share on other sites
Analogman Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 I don't know about that. Link to post Share on other sites
OOO Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 as someone who has worked in a studio and def notices production more than the average listener, i feel bad for you if the first thing you listen for is the production. listen for the songs first, then judge the production. great production can help a good song be better, but no amount of shitty production can kill a great song (see most any song recorded prior to 1968) I read an interview with Steve Albini a couple years ago where he talks a lot about this - How good/bad engineering and/or production really can't make a bad song good or a good song bad. The music has to be there first. Link to post Share on other sites
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