Michael Jackson..RIP

[Lynch]

I remember listening to the Thriller album on vinyl when I was in kindergarten. My cousin brought it for show and tell, haha, and the class got to listen to some songs. It was a pure pop moment.

[Analogman]

My exact reaction.

 

Although I never liked anything he did after the Jackson 5 years, I also never wished him dead. I wished him in prison on child molestation convictions for many, many years.

 

I was looking at a Michael Jackson thread on another board I am on - and noticed it almost mirrors this one. You can tell a person's age by what they say about him I think.

 

And I don't think I ever I really listened to them past the age of twelve.

 

Although his music after the Jackson Five is not the sort of thing I would listen to, it is interesting that his stardom spans such a wide age group.

 

He still has the biggest selling album of all time (Thriller) - although, it seems to also be listed at Number 2, depending on which list you are looking at. (The Eagles Greatest Hits, Bat Out Of Hell, and Back in Black are the other ones.)

 

This is the one I got way back when - I still have it:

 

The Jackson Five - Stand (Pickwick 1974)

[M. (hristine]

And people forget how truly loved he was all over the WORLD... in fact he's loved in many countries WAY more than he ever was in America.

 

when people claim that music or musicians can't change or have an impact on the world, i'd like to think you could point to MJ's musical career (before any of the weird shit) and claim otherwise

That he was loved all over the world gives me no comfort. In fact it lends further credence to the peril of the cult of personality. Charismatics with perversions lead to very bad things.

 

I'm just going to go ahead and cite Godwin's Rule here.

 

 

 

As a postscript: after it's release on dvd, I banned the remake of Willy Wonka from our house. The parallels to Michael Jackson (whether Burton and Depp intended or not), made my skin crawl.

[John Smith]

As a postscript: after it's release on dvd, I banned the remake of Willy Wonka from our house. The parallels to Michael Jackson (whether Burton and Depp intended or not), made my skin crawl.

 

My son was watching some Jackson coverage yesterday and said that Jackson reminded him of WIlly Wonka, but not in a good way. He was of course referrring to the re-make.

[danelectro]

Really? It's coming down to whether or not MJ was "normal". Hmm seems like a non-issue to me considering every rock star since Elvis has either fucked their cousin or engaged in some form of freakiness. Hi, Iggy and Bowie. A shout out to Chuck Berry and his coprophagia. Not to mention the 13 yr girls who scratched the pioneers of r&r's back. Sure MJ was eccentric, but so is every other 170M selling artist. Wait is there another one still alive. Crazy how intolerant rock fans can be. Is this a GOP convention or...Where's Ryan Adams and his rake when you need him.

[Spawn's dad]

Really? It's coming down to whether or not MJ was "normal". Hmm seems like a non-issue to me considering every rock star since Elvis has either fucked their cousin or engaged in some form of freakiness. Hi, Iggy and Bowie. A shout out to Chuck Berry and his coprophagia. Not to mention the 13 yr girls who scratched the pioneers of r&r's back. Sure MJ was eccentric, but so is every other 170M selling artist. Wait is there another one still alive. Crazy how intolerant rock fans can be. Is this a GOP convention or...Where's Ryan Adams and his rake when you need him.

 

Tolerance? I'm sure you're going for shock value, but ok, I'll bite.

 

So should we be tolerant of Phil Spector? I'm pretty sure fame helped OJ get off. There are few acts, I believe, as reprehensible as the abuse of a child.

That our penalties aren't stiffer continues to astound me.

 

And no Solace, I didn't get your point, but that's because I don't think you wrote what you intended to. You clearly wrote that the kid's parent weren't looking out

for his well being by accepting the cash, and not pursuing the legal means of getting the creep off the street. If we can't know or assume what went on in

MJ's never never land we certainly can't decide what's in the best interests of a kid who was exposed to insanity. So if you'd clarify perhaps it'll be clearer

that we're not really saying very different things. I think most people would agree that there's something off about a grown man having sleep overs with

someone else's kid and would keep their kids out of that situation. Once you step into that, and demonstrate that lack of judgment/star struckedness

the next decision may or may not be what saner people would do.

[Good Old Neon]

Really? It's coming down to whether or not MJ was "normal". Hmm seems like a non-issue to me considering every rock star since Elvis has either fucked their cousin or engaged in some form of freakiness. Hi, Iggy and Bowie. A shout out to Chuck Berry and his coprophagia. Not to mention the 13 yr girls who scratched the pioneers of r&r's back. Sure MJ was eccentric, but so is every other 170M selling artist. Wait is there another one still alive. Crazy how intolerant rock fans can be. Is this a GOP convention or...Where's Ryan Adams and his rake when you need him.

 

Or maybe it’s because for about two-thirds of his career, the music took a back seat to Michael Jackson, the spectacle. And most of the spectacle was engineered by Michael, for Michael - with little to no value related to music or entertaining, outside of tabloid fodder.

[LouieB]

As per usual, dying is a great career move. Jackson's albums are going like crazy on both iTunes and Amazon. I suspect that unlike Elvis, this won't last all that long, but maybe the Jackson family can at least pay off some of Michael's debts.

 

Wouldn't it be great if they buried him in Gary?

 

LouieB

[uncool2pillow]

Wouldn't it be great if they buried him in Gary?

I'm already envisioning him being buried at Neverland. Who owns that now? Tours of Neverland would be a cash cow rivaling Graceland, I imagine. Especially if they sold tickets to ride the carnival rides, if they're still there.

[LouieB]

I'm already envisioning him being buried at Neverland. Who owns that now? Tours of Neverland would be a cash cow rivaling Graceland, I imagine. Especially if they sold tickets to ride the carnival rides, if they're still there.

Unlike Elvis and Graceland, Michael was unable to hold on to Neverland due to money problems. I believe they had an auction off his stuff there. Too bad because that would have been something.

 

LouieB

[danelectro]

As per usual, dying is a great career move. Jackson's albums are going like crazy on both iTunes and Amazon. I suspect that unlike Elvis, this won't last all that long, but maybe the Jackson family can at least pay off some of Michael's debts.

 

Wouldn't it be great if they buried him in Gary?

 

LouieB

 

Considering MJ is already the fourth best selling artist ever with 750 million albums it's safe to assume his music would have continued to sell alive or dead. To put that in perspective that's 450 million more albums than Led Zep has sold and it took 16 years before Black Sabbath's first album sold a million in the US.

[dylan_1]

I like how Wilco's spot on amazon is after the first 15 albums of MJ. Wonder what their take is on MJ.

[Dude]

Considering MJ is already the fourth best selling artist ever with 750 million albums it's safe to assume his music would have continued to sell alive or dead. To put that in perspective that's 450 million more albums than Led Zep has sold and it took 16 years before Black Sabbath's first album sold a million in the US.

 

And Sonic Youth and the Velvet Underground have yet to sell 500,000 copies according to the RIAA. Strange world we live in.

[solace]

Or maybe it’s because for about two-thirds of his career, the music took a back seat to Michael Jackson, the spectacle. And most of the spectacle was engineered by Michael, for Michael - with little to no value related to music or entertaining, outside of tabloid fodder.

 

2/3's?

 

the Jackson 5 released their first album in 1969 and Michael's first solo album came 3 years in 1972. the first lawsuit was in 1993, so by my math that's 24 years of his musical career before any of the big drama unfolded.

 

1993-2009 = 16 years.

 

now i dunno about you, but in my mathematical mind, 16 years of drama out of 40 years of a musical career isn't exactly 2/3's...

 

And no Solace, I didn't get your point, but that's because I don't think you wrote what you intended to. You clearly wrote that the kid's parent weren't looking out

for his well being by accepting the cash, and not pursuing the legal means of getting the creep off the street.

we'll have to agree to disagree then i guess.

 

in my book, accepting cash to cover up ANY crime (esp. sexual abuse) makes you basically guilty by association and that you feel money can buy justice.

[sandyriz]

I like how Wilco's spot on amazon is after the first 15 albums of MJ. Wonder what their take is on MJ.

 

Yeah, I added a comment to the 6/25 LA show thread wondering if Wilco said or did anything related to MJ. It must have been surreal for them to be in LA the very day MJ died in that city.

[John Smith]

Or maybe it’s because for about two-thirds of his career, the music took a back seat to Michael Jackson, the spectacle. And most of the spectacle was engineered by Michael, for Michael - with little to no value related to music or entertaining, outside of tabloid fodder.

 

Bingo! I've thought this for years of Jackson and Madonna. Any new music they put out I have viewed as a means to get themselves out in the public eye more than an actual artistic statement. I would just about put Bono in this category too, but people might not appreciate that.

[M. (hristine]

Crazy how intolerant rock fans can be.

Compassion? Yes, of course.

Tolerant? You gotta be fucking kidding me.

[JerseyMike]

It's sometimes hard to do, but people need to learn to separate the art from the artist. If we judged art on a person's character our lives would be without some of the greatest painting, poetry, film and music ever made.

 

Michael Jackson lived a life that few people could ever relate to, so who can really speak to his actions and behavior? I know I can't.

 

What I can say is that he was an extremely talented singer, songwriter and entertainer and its a shame that those talents ended up taking a backseat to the freakshow that was his life. Thriller and Off The Wall are nearly flawless pop records that will stand by themselves for a long time, and to that I can say "Thanks MJ, RIP"

[M. (hristine]

It's sometimes hard to do, but people need to learn to separate the art from the artist. If we judged art on a person's character our lives would be without some of the greatest painting, poetry, film and music ever made.

 

Michael Jackson lived a life that few people could ever relate to, so who can really speak to his actions and behavior? I know I can't.

 

What I can say is that he was an extremely talented singer, songwriter and entertainer and its a shame that those talents ended up taking a backseat to the freakshow that was his life. Thriller and Off The Wall are nearly flawless pop records that will stand by themselves for a long time, and to that I can say "Thanks MJ, RIP"

So he gets a child molester pass because he had a fucked up childhood, produced brilliant art, and made a huge pile of money?

 

Wow. Imagine what you would get to do if you restored patriotic pride, reduced unemployment, rebuilt infrastructure, economy and united the youth!

[M. (hristine]

Yes I went there and I apologize.

[JerseyMike]

So he gets a child molester pass because he had a fucked up childhood, produced brilliant art, and made a huge pile of money?

 

Wow. Imagine what you would get to do if you restored patriotic pride, reduced unemployment, rebuilt infrastructure, economy and united the youth!

 

 

I'm glad you came back with that becauseI never said he gets a pass for anything, all I said is that I'm not one to judge his actions, considering NONE OF US know exactly what happened to him or in that situation. He made great music that I enjoy, and for that I can say thanks.

[M. (hristine]

I'm glad you came back with that becauseI never said he gets a pass for anything, all I said is that I'm not one to judge his actions, considering NONE OF US know exactly what happened to him or in that situation.

I never would have thought of that.

 

He was accused of molesting one 13 year old boy 4 times, intoxicating him 4 times, one count of abduction, and one count of conspiring to hold the boy and his family captive at his Neverland theme park.

 

Did you see the original airing of that interview in which Jackson was caressing and petting this young boy like a lap dog? Those images will be burned into my memory forever. Much longer than his moonwalk across the stage at the Grammys.

 

Hmmm. I wonder why that part was edited out in subsequent airings.

[JerseyMike]

never would have thought of that.

 

He was accused of molesting one 13 year old boy 4 times, intoxicating him 4 times, one count of abduction, and one count of conspiring to hold the boy and his family captive at his Neverland theme park.

 

Did you see the original airing of that interview in which Jackson was caressing and petting this young boy like a lap dog? Those images will be burned into my memory forever. Much longer than his moonwalk across the stage at the Grammys.

 

Hmmm. I wonder why that part was edited out in subsequent airings.

 

 

I did see that, and I have drawn my own conclusions and probably hold a similar opinion. Still though, I can come home with my friends from a night out, turn down the lights, throw on Thriller or Off the Wall and dance our asses off until the some comes up. For me, and a lot of my friends who are also musicians, Thriller was a big part of our collective musical youth, and I would like to remember the music instead of the circus.

[bjorn_skurj]

It took a good long while, buy eventually they started performing Wagner's music in Israel. Which to me would tend to indicate that eventually, art triumphs over the wickedness and depravity of the artist.

Michael Jackson was one of those people who was powerful enough to be able to be completely crazy and not get intervened upon. Maybe we should be grateful that he stopped at molestation; he was in numerous situations where he could have easily killed one of those kids (well, maybe not, he did not seem the halest and heartiest of dudes). The kids' parents were either epically bad judges of character, or they were evil, using their kids as bait to extort Jackson. I am not a huge Michael Jackson fan, though I will say "ABC" is one of the best singles ever. Please do give Quincy Jones a share of the credit for "Off the Wall" and "Thriller." Thank you.

[Shakespeare In The Alley]

It took a good long while, buy eventually they started performing Wagner's music in Israel. Which to me would tend to indicate that eventually, art triumphs over the wickedness and depravity of the artist.

Michael Jackson was one of those people who was powerful enough to be able to be completely crazy and not get intervened upon. Maybe we should be grateful that he stopped at molestation; he was in numerous situations where he could have easily killed one of those kids (well, maybe not, he did not seem the halest and heartiest of dudes). The kids' parents were either epically bad judges of character, or they were evil, using their kids as bait to extort Jackson. I am not a huge Michael Jackson fan, though I will say "ABC" is one of the best singles ever. Please do give Quincy Jones a share of the credit for "Off the Wall" and "Thriller." Thank you.

Thank you.

 

I've had to put up this argument numerous times lately against people who seem to believe MJ played and arranged every single sound on every song of his.