East Coast Spring Tour 2010

[u2roolz]

I don't see a problem with the in-state mailing address thing. It doesn't prevent people from neighboring states from buying tickets, it just means they have to pick them up in person. If you buy tickets and can go to the show, you're fine. I agree that in the case of will-call only, it's a problem if you can't go. And if you're trying to help a friend buy tickets, it's also an issue. And will call for GA makes me nervous. But I still think it's a better system. You only buy if you're pretty sure you can go, or you take a chance on losing the money. It's your choice. And if venues would open up the ticket windows an hour or so before doors, everything would be cool picking up tickets. (Pabst window is open hours before the show.) I guess ultimately I feel like market value is market value, but the people making money for that should be the artists. There was an interesting point about that in the New Yorker article - that by trying to be fan-friendly and pricing things way under market value or playing smaller places (some Springsteen seats were an example) you can actually end up driving the price way up for fans on the secondary market.

 

If you buy will-call tickets and can't go to the show, there should be an option to contact the venue (or whatever outlet sold them), give up the rights to your tickets, and only pay if they can't resell them. How hard can that be? I guess that means you can't decide who you want to have the ticket, though. Why can't it all just be simple?

 

Ah...I had to reread this a few times. At first I thought you meant that you wanted everyone to have an option of sending their tickets back if they decided they couldn't go or even worse deciding not to go. That would be horrible. I know of a few friends who I stopped buying tickets for about 5-7 years ago. (the fact that I had to buy tickets for them speaks volumes about their shitty passive nature. Edit: On top of that the tickets had to be the best seats in the house and the cheapest, if they passed inspection I'd get paid the night of the show or after the fact) It was all "I'd like to go see _____, but I'm not sure if I'll be doing anything that night."

WTF LOL!!! You mean to tell me you'd prefer to catch a movie or spend your night at the local chain restaurant instead of buying tickets to see a band you like on a specific night of the week and then you can do those other things on the other 6 days of the week.

 

I completely understand out-of-towners, or weather issues for commuters, illness, etc. but I can't have sympathy for people who buy a ticket then decide "eh I don't feel like going." Maybe it's the fact that it's such a huge commitment, but I say if you're not sure of a band or know of something coming up then don't buy tickets in the 1st place. It's not like throwing around $5-10.

 

Although, to reveal the veil of myself I did something similar for U2 this past September. I had tickets for both nights and in early August (after U2 finished their European tour) I decided that I didn't need to see them both nights, since shows in the same city were very similar. I ended up selling tickets for the 1st show for face value through a U2 message board. I'll never make that mistake again, since I don't like becoming the villain.

[SarahC]

You will not be disappointed with the pit seats at the Fox.

I sat in row CCC for Tom Waits a couple years back.

It is by far the best venue that I have ever been in.

Just be sure to turn around and look up to take in the beauty of the venue.

if i actually get the seat i will be sure to do that. i know it's just the medication i'm on right now, but i am super paranoid about it...

 

also, thanks for clarifying the will-call thing Brianne, i get what you're saying now, and yeah, if venues did that it would be awesome!

[bböp]

Btw- Paul, were you buy any chance at the Decemberists show at the Ryman back in Sept? I was looking at my friend's pictures and I think I saw you in the background of one of them.

 

Yeah, I was actually there for that one. My first time at the Ryman.

 

As far as the in-state mailing address thing goes, I guess it works for the Pabst and I understand what they're trying to do. But it definitely is a pain for out-of-staters. Having had plans change and important things come up, I just appreciate any system where you're able to be flexible without being penalized for it. (For example, why every airline can't operate like Southwest with respect to change fees is beyond me. Obviously most airlines are trying scrape as much $$$ out of you as possible.)

 

My point with respect to the in-state thing being somewhat illogical is that if you lived, say, in Waukegan, IL, you live a heck of a lot closer to Milwaukee (and would probably be more likely to go to a show in Milwaukee) than someone who lived in, say, Eau Claire, WI. And like I mentioned, with a city like Boston, would you just restrict physical tickets to Massachusetts residents and make people from Rhode Island/New Hampshire/Maine/etc., do will call?

 

Obviously it doesn't matter if you can go to the show, but the way I see it, it just makes it a pain for some people and doesn't really do that much to deter the secondary market. If you want to do that, then just make it all will call and no name changes allowed. But to say that if you live in Wisconsin so you can have physical tickets but if you live in Illinois you can't doesn't really make sense to me.

[Preferred B]

Do the majority of online scalpers not operate locally (i.e. buy tickets for shows all over the U.S.)? That's about the only thing I can think of. I think the in-state thing makes sense for a city like Milwaukee big enough to have an in-state (in-city) or environs market that could support the shows on its own. Your point about Waukegan is valid, but most stuff that comes to Milwaukee also comes to Chicago. You're right - it wouldn't make much sense for a city like Boston, or probably a lot of stuff on east coast.

 

The Pabst folks also do their best to cancel the tickets and resell them if they find them on ebay, which is pretty cool. Their system wouldn't work for everyone, I just admire the fact that they try lots of things to make sure actual fans get tickets.

 

I don't know; I can only wish I had a perfect solution and the power to implement it. In truth, I think most of these issues for this particular tour are just coming up because Wilco is playing small venues in big markets, and it's their first real U.S. tour of the year. The demand is much greater than the supply. The brokers and scalpers cut into it, of course, but probably no more than they have in the past year or two. It's just more noticeable when there's a big supply/demand disparity.

[Preferred B]

Ah...I had to reread this a few times. At first I thought you meant that you wanted everyone to have an option of sending their tickets back if they decided they couldn't go or even worse deciding not to go. That would be horrible.

Are you saying that you think if people knew they had the option, they'd be more likely to buy tickets for shows they weren't likely to attend anyway? That would be annoying, but I think that the option to return unusable tickets to the official ticket pool would be a much better solution than people who can't go just leaving a ticket unused. You can look for buyers on the secondary market, of course, but if I can't use a ticket and don't know anyone who can, I'd much rather just let the venue or company handle reselling it than try to find a buyer myself. If nobody buys it, then I don't get a refund. I think Ticketmaster has something like this in place, but it's more of a reselling forum than Ticketmaster actually taking back your ticket ... right? I've never had occasion to use that.

[u2roolz]

Are you saying that you think if people knew they had the option, they'd be more likely to buy tickets for shows they weren't likely to attend anyway? That would be annoying, but I think that the option to return unusable tickets to the official ticket pool would be a much better solution than people who can't go just leaving a ticket unused. You can look for buyers on the secondary market, of course, but if I can't use a ticket and don't know anyone who can, I'd much rather just let the venue or company handle reselling it than try to find a buyer myself. If nobody buys it, then I don't get a refund. I think Ticketmaster has something like this in place, but it's more of a reselling forum than Ticketmaster actually taking back your ticket ... right? I've never had occasion to use that.

 

Yes. I like the idea, but I find it too addictive for me and probably others to buy like crazy then return like crazy. I'll give you an example 1) You need a ticket so you catch a ride with your friends and you find a person selling a ticket outside the venue for below face value to get rid of the ticket. You buy it and everything goes smoothly. 2) Same scenario except you are afraid of buying from people on the street no matter how low they go to get rid of a ticket, so you venture to the nearby box office where it is still face value plus a service charge.

 

Obviously example 1 can bite you in the bud if you buy a fake ticket. But people know that there's going to be normal folks/fans trying to sell off unused tickets last minute for less, so it's going to be tough to change those people's minds to come on down to the b.o. last minute and still pay face + fees. Unless of course they disband the service fees days of, but that's doubtful.

 

I guess the main problem would be if people start to sell back/return tickets and you expect to buy one (via box office only) on the day of and they don't have any left then you're kind of screwed.

 

Off topic, I actually bought a ticket off of you way back in 04 for the Brandeis University show.

[Preferred B]

Ha! I remember that, dimly. There's an example of a show I couldn't get to. I see your point about the possibility of getting a ticket for a reduced price outside the venue. How about this - if I can't use a ticket and can't sell it, I have the option of giving it back to the venue to sell night of. That way you're no more likely to buy a ticket you might not use, but if you absolutely can't use it and can't sell it and can't get there to give it away yourself, you can still give someone the hope of buying it. I'd say the venue could give it away, out of the goodness of their heart, instead of selling the same ticket twice ... but come on. Or forget the venue - maybe bands could do that. You officially give up the rights to the ticket if you can't come and want to donate it last-minute, and they send out a Tweet or email or something announcing they'll have X number of tickets to claim gratis at the box office. Everybody wins!

[bböp]

You officially give up the rights to the ticket if you can't come and want to donate it last-minute, and they send out a Tweet or email or something announcing they'll have X number of tickets to claim gratis at the box office. Everybody wins!

 

The only club I've ever known to buy back a ticket from you was the Bottom Line in New York (RIP). I remember doing that once or twice. You'd go to the box office and they'd give you your money back and then resell the ticket. I do wonder what prevented people from "buying like crazy and then returning like crazy." I think it just wasn't really that kind of place. And it was before the Internet and service fees and automated ticket-getting software made things get out of hand. Of course it's also partly why they're no longer in business.

 

But to your point, B, it does seem like with the advent of Twitter and the ubiquity of e-mail that something could be done with a ticket that you can't use. One problem I see is that it would take more manpower to administrate (keep track of who was relinquishing tickets/sending out tweets about them), something that most venues aren't just going to do for free. The same would be true for letting a ticket outlet or venue find a buyer for a ticket you couldn't use -- it would require someone to keep track of it and organize it, basically another person they'd have to pay.

 

Also, how could they be sure you wouldn't change your mind even after you'd technically relinquished your rights to a ticket? Even with bar codes, if you got to a venue before the person who bought your relinquished ticket, you could get in before them and it would be a headache for the venue. Seems like one thing it'd be easier not to deal with.

[Preferred B]

Can't they cancel barcodes though? If you don't get a ticket in the mail, they can reissue you another, which is the same kind of idea. You could technically lie about that, too. I don't see this system as being any more prone to dishonesty, especially since you're not getting anything in return if you just give back the ticket. But you're right about it requiring another person to keep track of it all, probably on the venue level.

 

If Twitter somehow let you tweet at all followers of a particular band and have them actually see it (if they didn't follow you), it would be a lot easier to take matters into your own hands using the new technology. (Of course, you'd never want to allow that - imagine the spam.) I've seen some bands, like maybe the Avett Brothers, retweet fans who have extra tickets on the night of a show. That's pretty neat.

 

I feel kind of bad for taking this topic off track. Wilco!

[u2roolz]

I'm afraid of the ticket scalpers (online or not) abusing this return policy. Although, it could be used to reveal who these people are lurking in the shadows. I'm sure these people have "ticket runners" and don't buy all of these tickets themselves.(yeah, I'd like to return 20 tickets...uhm?!) Imagine ticket scalper A the night before the show or day of and says "ok, I can't sell these overpriced tickets at $200 a pop, so I'm going to get my money back and not lose anything." As opposed to ticket scalper A losing money, since no one (save for the rich) would pay $200 for a ticket and that scalper would be SOL.

 

I don't know exactly how this would affect scalpers in the long run. Perhaps it would really f them over, once people catch wind of the new return policy and everyone plays a game of chicken or "wait and see until last minute" at the venue box office.

 

Also, like Bbop said someone would have to be paid to check things out to make sure people don't show up to the same seat. I mean, if you send your tickets back day of do you physically send them back or do they print new ones to sell and you just toss yours? I'd assume people would take advantage of that. And it would make sense to have a 48-72 hour return policy prior to day of show to avoid such problems.

 

I guess it really comes down to who physically has the tickets should be responsible to get rid of their ticket if need be. I can't really use a movie theater example because it's quite different due to the nature of it all.

[Preferred B]

They print new ones and nullify yours. But if you could just give them back for no refund, there would be no advantage for scalpers. It probably wouldn't apply to a lot of people, but there have got to sometimes be people who can't make a show and just eat the cost because they can't find anyone to take it on short notice. At least this way you'd still eat the cost, but some stranger would have a chance to use the ticket.

 

(Okay, I realize we're no longer doing anything about scalping here. But hopefully making sure at least a few fans can get tickets?)

[u2roolz]

This reminds me of a ticket story from this past September for U2. I know that this is why I was helping out Nomis in his "are they real tickets" quest.

I sold a U2 GA ticket on the 1st of September because I hadn't seen the money from my best friend's friend whom I really don't know too well.

The week of the show I had to scramble to find him a ticket. I kept hearing "maybe" via my best friend on his friend seeing U2 3 times over the course of 2 weeks and 2 cities.

Some guy on the U2 message board sold me a GA ticket for $50 and threw in the other GA ticket for no extra cost. He couldn't make the show from N.C.

It was a more than nice gesture.

[watch me fall]

So I contacted Stub Hub tonight after I had a question concerning one of their ticket listings that had a section listed that was different from all of the other listings, plus did not coincide with the venue's seat map. Keep in mind, I have not purchased any tickets but was just curious about this one particular listing. Here is their response:

 

 

Dear Jen,

Thank you for contacting StubHub.

 

As soon as you receive your order confirmation, we guarantee that the tickets you purchased will arrive in time for the event and that they will be valid.

 

You are covered by our FanProtect™ Guarantee if:

 

* The tickets you purchased do not arrive, or they arrive after the event. For StubHub orders shipped using FedEx, if you experience a delay in shipment, give us a call at 1.866.STUBHUB (1.866.788.2482) immediately so we can determine the location of your tickets and make sure you get them in time enough for the event. Please contact us within three (3) calendar days after the date tickets were scheduled to arrive, or at least three (3) calendar days prior to the event, to ensure you are covered by our FanProtect™ Guarantee. For orders sent via eDelivery or Instant Delivery, please call us at 1.866.STUBHUB (1.866.788.2482) if you haven't received your tickets within 24 hours of the event.

* The tickets you received do not match the description in the ticket listing corresponding with your order. NOTE: In certain instances, we may substitute tickets we deem to be similar to, or better than, the originals. In the case of substitutions, the tickets' section will be the same or better, while seat and row numbers may vary.

*

The tickets you received are fraudulent and you are denied entry to the venue by official event staff.

 

Once a seller confirms an order we hold them financially responsible to fulfill the order.Please feel free to contact us if you have further questions or if you'd like to learn more, visit our Help Center and check out our Buyer Learning Center and read about our FanProtect™ Guarantee.

 

Sincerely,

 

David

 

StubHub Customer Service

 

Weekdays: 5:00AM -- 8:00PM (PST)

 

Weekends: 6:00AM -- 7:00PM (PST)

 

customerservice@stubhub.com

 

www.StubHub.com

[Analogman]

I just looked at this Stub Hub deal. Would someone really pay 400 hundred dollars to see Wilco? If so, that is amazing. Of course, what it comes down to is someone making a bunch of money off of the band. That's pretty good deal they have going on there. It is like organized crime. How much does Stub Hub get when someone sells a ticket?

[SarahC]

I got a confirmation today from stubhub about the tickets I bought. Of course, I am not going to be happy until sitting in my 3rd row seat in the Fox Theatre waiting for Wilco to come on stage...

 

I just looked at this Stub Hub deal. Would someone really pay 400 hundred dollars to see Wilco? If so, that is amazing. Of course, what it comes down to is someone making a bunch of money off of the band. That's pretty good deal they have going on there. It is like organized crime. How much does Stub Hub get when someone sells a ticket?

i figure it that i would never be able to get a 3rd row seat these days without paying the prices. i just hope it's not a scam or something...

[Shakespeare In The Alley]

Personally, I don't get how people can pay that much for second hand tickets from anywhere. Anytime a show sells out quickly, there's that initial rush of buyers and sellers, so they're a lot more pricey. Out of curiosity I've looked at this for other similar non-Wilco shows, and you can get tickets at or below face value from places like Stubhub and Craigslist if you wait until closer to the actual show date. But then again, there's a chance of a lesser seat, if it's not a GA venue.

[SarahC]

Personally, I don't get how people can pay that much for second hand tickets from anywhere. Anytime a show sells out quickly, there's that initial rush of buyers and sellers, so they're a lot more pricey. Out of curiosity I've looked at this for other similar non-Wilco shows, and you can get tickets at or below face value from places like Stubhub and Craigslist if you wait until closer to the actual show date. But then again, there's a chance of a lesser seat, if it's not a GA venue.

true, but if it sells out, and there's no more tickets to be bought the price could sky rocket even farther. i guess it just depends on priorities and available funds...

[Shakespeare In The Alley]

true, but if it sells out, and there's no more tickets to be bought the price could sky rocket even farther. i guess it just depends on priorities and available funds...

Definitely. If there's a good ticket available, and the price seems reasonable enough, then what the hell. But I'd hold out and see what happens closer to the show date. Because then you're more likely to get actual fans who ended up unable to go, and just want to get rid of the ticket for as close to face value as possible. I got a Roots ticket a few weeks ago, three days before the show, from a guy on Craigslist for below face value. Of course it's all personal preference and dependent on economics (I'm a student with no income. So had I not gotten a ticket to the Richmond Wilco show, I would have held out for the cheapest thing available. Of course, that's a GA venue so it's different.)

 

I think the stubhub sellers know that people are more likely to pay above face for a ticket the day after the show sold out officially than a week before the concert.

[SarahC]

Definitely. If there's a good ticket available, and the price seems reasonable enough, then what the hell. But I'd hold out and see what happens closer to the show date. Because then you're more likely to get actual fans who ended up unable to go, and just want to get rid of the ticket for as close to face value as possible. I got a Roots ticket a few weeks ago, three days before the show, from a guy on Craigslist for below face value. Of course it's all personal preference and dependent on economics (I'm a student with no income. So had I not gotten a ticket to the Richmond Wilco show, I would have held out for the cheapest thing available. Of course, that's a GA venue so it's different.)

 

I think the stubhub sellers know that people are more likely to pay above face for a ticket the day after the show sold out officially than a week before the concert.

 

maybe you can luck out on the richmond thing too.

 

 

yeah, i am a college student too, and basically used every bit of my extra holiday pay for the pit seat, but for me it's a big deal cos i haven't seen the band in almost 2 years. i found out today that there is a STRONG possibility that my final concert for school (we're doing Carl Orff's Carmina Burana) might be on the same day as the wilco show, and i am planning to skip the choir concert to go see wilco. my priorities are really whack...

[dtram]

How much does Stub Hub get when someone sells a ticket?

 

Seller pays 15 points, buyer pays 10, they make 25% on each sale. It's on top of the sale price so if the ticket is $100, the buyer pays $110 and the seller receives $85. Genius if you ask me.

[tugmoose]

SchulbHub makes it too easy to become an ticket pimp in the comfort of your mom's basement. As with sports, it's just one more reason to stop being a music fan (at least of bands that reach that level). Of course, sports teams actually encourage it - I'm guessing they get a little taste, as well.

[chris b]

SchulbHub makes it too easy to become an ticket pimp in the comfort of your mom's basement. As with sports, it's just one more reason to stop being a music fan (at least of bands they reach that level). Of course, sports teams actually encourage it - I'm guessing they get a little taste, as well.

 

It's actually shocking sometimes to see the # of tix available to sold out shows.

[chris b]

Just checked StubHub and 220 of all available Orchestra tix for the Boston show are already up for re-sale!

[tugmoose]

I've seen Wilco some 15-18 times since 2002. If I never see 'em again, that's a bummer. But I'm not playing ball with this "secondary market." You pay those prices, you just encourage it more. Lots of other great shows out there.

[watch me fall]

Just checked StubHub and 220 of all available Orchestra tix for the Boston show are already up for re-sale!

Unfortunately it's like that for a lot of the shows. Just look at all the tix for Durham and Atlanta. Someone is selling tix in Durham for the last row of the main floor for almost $300/ticket. Ridiculous.