Presidential Race (Respector Edition)

[ih8music]

Just trust him. It'll all work out in the end. But rest assured that nothing you care about will be cut.

[Doug C]

I agree that George W. was/is dumb, that not every Republican is dumb and that Mitt Romney isn't dumb and that it would not be a slam dunk intellectual rogering (though a right rogering it would be). It was hyperbole for me to say "the President would make Mitt Romney look the fool". What I meant was that due to this: "Right now, he's trying to get elected by appealing to the base and draw in lots of independents and moderates, so he often falters or waffles in his statements.", it would be easy for the President to point out Romney's incoherence. The President is also intelligent enough to not allow Romney to weasel out of facing the fact that he says whatever is he (Romney) thinks is necessary to win and making him look foolish in that regard. The only thing keeping the President from doing so is the Fear Of A Dumb Planet (losing votes because Mr. and Mrs. Average Yahoo would think he's mean, read uppity black guy).

Yeah what the fuck?

If you really believe all this crap, I have something to sell you.

 

According to your above post, "Jules", you believe that W. was/is smart, every Republican is dumb (confused on W., then...), Romney is smart, a real debate would be a slam dunk intellectual rogering of Romney, it wasn't hyperbole of me to say the President would make Romney look the fool, it wouldn't be easy for the Pres to point out Romney's incoherence, the Pres isn't intelligent enough to keep romney from weaseling out and the President isn't afraid of average yahoos thinking he's a meanie (uppity black guy) if he is overly aggresive in a debate. Thanks for clarifying.

 

What do you have to sell me? I am interested in the family business's offerings.

[KevinG]

I have never thought GWB was dumb. I thought that was something the media latched on to (especially the left). I also don't think Joe Biden is dumb. They both aren't as media savvy and say things in a more folksy and "straight" way. Whereas both PBO and Romney are more polished in their speaking and come off smart and educated.

 

Now does it really matter who is smarter? You could have a someone who has an IQ over 150 and believe something totally contrary to your beliefs. Would you pick that guy to run the country? Now I am not saying high intelligence is not of value, we don't want a drooling idiot running the country. Both PBO and Mitt are smart individuals able to make informed decisions. It comes down to what these decisions are. This pissing match about which candidate is smarter is stupid and at the end of the day pointless. It reminds me of two kids on the playground yelling at each other on whose dad could beat up whose.

 

In other news, anyone gonna get fired if Obama is reelected? Or for you business owners, you gonna fire anyone?

[Doug C]

Gee, I'ma gonna vote for the smart feller even though he agin ever thing I stand for...

 

Ha ha! Do you really believe that is what I was saying or would do? If I felt that my guy, issue-wise, was a Dumbya (say what you like, he isn't a brain trust. Trust fund, yes) but the other guy was intelligent, open-minded and well-reasoned, I'd vote for him because it would be better for the country.

 

Also, my dad was a badass and could've so kicked your dad's arse. Unfortunately, he is dead and can't demonstrate it. Hell, he couldn't demonstrate it if alive as he would be 106 years old.

[KevinG]

Gee, I'ma gonna vote for the smart feller even though he agin ever thing I stand for...

 

Ha ha! Do you really believe that is what I was saying or would do? If I felt that my guy, issue-wise, was a Dumbya (say what you like, he isn't a brain trust. Trust fund, yes) but the other guy was intelligent, open-minded and well-reasoned, I'd vote for him because it would be better for the country.

 

Also, my dad was a badass and could've so kicked your dad's arse. Unfortunately, he is dead and can't demonstrate it. Hell, he couldn't demonstrate it if alive as he would be 106 years old.

 

Agreed with you, but the pissing match is pointless and frankly uninteresting (IMHO). I mean who really cares? There are more important and interesting conversations too be had. Both are smart and educated, both have different world views and come to different conclusions on things. That is what matters.

[PopTodd]

Let's cut money from education!

Yeah!!!

[IRememberDBoon]

she had me at kenia

[PopTodd]

http://www.theonion.com/articles/trump-announces-hes-a-very-sad-man,30077/

[KevinG]

http://www.theonion....-sad-man,30077/

 

I love the fact that his big revelation about Obama was nothing more then a bribe for something that does not matter.

 

The Onion is right.

[LouieB]

Its pathetic really. 13 more days and we can call it quits on this thread.

 

LouieB

[KevinG]

Its pathetic really. 13 more days and we can call it quits on this thread.

 

LouieB

 

 

I actually voted today (I am going to be away on business on election day). So I guess I could call it quits now. But what fun would that be?

[LouieB]

I get the day off to vote, so I am waiting until then, even though we have early voting in IL.

 

LouieB

[KevinG]

I get the day off to vote, so I am waiting until then, even though we have early voting in IL.

 

LouieB

 

I was actually disappointed that I had to vote early. It really bothered me that my vote was put into an envelope with my name on it. And I love the idea of everyone in the US getting together on the same day and collectively trying to shape the government.

 

The line seemed to be particularly long at my city clerks office. It look me nearly 45 mins to get through the line. I am glad that I had the option to vote early and it that wasn't hampered by GOP like in other areas.

[bleedorange]

I moved this year, so I need to figure out where to go to vote. Fortunately, Texas is in the bag, so if I don't make it, it won't be the end of the world.

[KevinG]

I moved this year, so I need to figure out where to go to vote. Fortunately, Texas is in the bag, so if I don't make it, it won't be the end of the world.

 

That is a sad statement (and one of the problems with the electoral college). Regardless if your state is solidly red or blue, you should vote. I am sure that there are other state and local elections that aren't as close.

[Mr. Heartbreak]

In Florida, we are really encouraging early voting. The lines will be long on every day of the early voting period, actually, so if people can get to their local Supervisor of Elections' office and vote now, they should.

The lines on election day may end up being prohibitively long.

 

Went to the big Obama rally here in Tampa this morning, and it was amazing. I had to leave before he was finished so I could get to work on time, but I was surprised by how hoarse he was. He is losing his voice from talking so much. Lot of people there...too many to even get into the area where he was speaking. Some were standing outside listening to him on loudspeakers. The place went nuts when he came out...so many people taking photos or videotaping with their cell phones. People are way more excited than one might expect. Even if he doesn't win FL, he will get a lot of votes here.

 

On a Wilco-related note, they were playing I Got You over the loudspeakers about 5 minutes before the Prez came on. Pretty f-ing cool.

[bleedorange]

That is a sad statement (and one of the problems with the electoral college). Regardless if your state is solidly red or blue, you should vote. I am sure that there are other state and local elections that aren't as close.

 

There are no problems with the electoral college. It's one of the hallmarks of our founding fathers and an incredibly ingenious and important method of electing a president in a republic.

 

Also I always vote. Even locally. I was mainly making the point that Texas will be red. It's been 18 years since a Democrat won a statewide election in Texas. A trend that isn't changing anytime soon. Plus, I would be surprised if there are even any Democrats running for most of the seats I would be voting for in my new county. I missed the primaries here, which is where the real election is for the majority of these offices.

 

Of course, it is true that we moved and I'll no longer be able to walk 1 block to my polling place.

[Lammycat]

I get the day off to vote, so I am waiting until then, even though we have early voting in IL.

 

LouieB

That's odd, no? A whole day off to vote? Why is that?So many questions.

 

My ballot is in the outgoing mail for today. I hope I did it right and voted for the right candidate. Who knows, though? Will Rosanne keep her word? How does she feel about the Navy and their supplies? Guh.

[ih8music]

Living in a state that "doesn't matter" for the pres race (CA, in my case) is disappointing, but I still vote. There's always big crap going on in Sacramento and dozens of props to consider.

 

Speaking of which, I'm curious... in the state where you reside, do they offer voter information pamphlets? In CA, we get a sample ballot and voter information packet that's probably 30-40 pages long where every state and local initiative is explained w/ the pro argument, the con argument, and rebuttals to each. And you get to see who's supporting each side. It's really useful.

 

I've always taken it for granted until I lived in MI for a while and never received anything of the sort. You basically had to rely on newspapers to figure out what the props were about and how to vote. Just curious if other states are more like CA or MI.

[bleedorange]

That seems strange to me that the state would offer up that information. Even in a seemingly neutral form like that, things could easily be worded in a leading fashion. Here's what it says on the Texas Secretary of State site:

 

As an impartial entity, this website only includes candidate name and political party affiliation information. Political stances with regard to issues are not referenced on this site. Such information can be obtained through Web searches or by visiting a particular candidate’s Web page.

[Doug C]

There are no problems with the electoral college. It's one of the hallmarks of our founding fathers and an incredibly ingenious and important method of electing a president in a republic.

 

I want to believe that you are joking but doubt it. If our Constitution were being wriiten today, would you include the electoral college? It is such an anachronism that, were it tangible, it's picture would be next to anachronism in the dictionary. I understand your republic comment, but it is not the proper way to elect our chief executive. Many other "hallmarks of our founding fathers" have, thankfully and intelligently, been swept into the dustbin of history. If you are in favor of keeping the electoral college, I'd find a better argument.

 

The truth is that Americans don't like change and are quite traditional. That is the only reason why it remains. That and the idea that butterfly ballots, anti-voter fraud laws, electronic voting, "Republicans vote on Tuesday and Democrats vote on Wednesday" -type robo calls and other such things can be used to unethically at best and illegally at worst swing large electoral states to the Grand Old Rove Party.

[ih8music]

That seems strange to me that the state would offer up that information. Even in a seemingly neutral form like that, things could easily be worded in a leading fashion. Here's what it says on the Texas Secretary of State site:

Well, yeah the pro/con arguments are certainly biased. But the independent analysis is very neutral and fact-based.

 

Just realized they have it online; you can see what I'm talking about: http://voterguide.sos.ca.gov/propositions/

 

I just don't see why this isn't the norm everywhere. A well-informed electorate is the backbone of democracy, no?

[lost highway]

In CO they send out a booklet. It seems to be just about as objective as a description could be, which can be confirmed by the fact that it is difficult to read, boring and full of legalistic logic writing. It is more or less a printed version of the proposed law, or amendment and a description of who/what it would effect, how much revenue it would gather, how much it would cost, what would be different from the former version etc.

 

As for "in the bag", I do feel excited to vote in a state that is starting to swing. The electoral college is a weird argument. It's a question of how a region's need can be properly represented vs. how an individual can have an effective voice in their greater community. In other words if there is no electoral college how do 500 ranchers in Wyoming sway our democracy with what their needs are? If there is an electoral college how does a liberal's vote in Wyoming, or a conservative's vote in Vermont do anything to change the course of the country?

[gogo]

Well, yeah the pro/con arguments are certainly biased. But the independent analysis is very neutral and fact-based.

 

Just realized they have it online; you can see what I'm talking about: http://voterguide.so...v/propositions/

 

I just don't see why this isn't the norm everywhere. A well-informed electorate is the backbone of democracy, no?

Yeah, I'm not sure who gets to decide whose pro/con arguments go in the booklet, but they're written by the leading proponents and opponents of each proposition, so each side gets their say. And there are often multiple arguments on each side, so I don't think there's a limit on who can submit those. Definitely seems about as fair and balanced as they can be.

 

I also like to see who signs the arguments for/against. There was a member of the board of supervisors here, Sue Berman, who was fantastic, for years after she retired from public office I always used her as my yardstick. "Oh, Sue Berman is For that one? I'm in!"

 

I like to vote on Election Day, too, but my work schedule these days would make that not particularly easy. I'm going to go down to City Hall the weekend before, I still prefer that to an absentee ballot, at least I get to be in a group of other voters, all exercising our democratic rights.

[Mr. Heartbreak]

I can't speak for anyone else, but in Florida we are really SOL on the whole voter guide thing. That is, no one at the state level sends out any kind of mass mailer to let us know what is on the ballot in the way you are all describing. You have to read about it online or in the paper. It's particularly bad this year, as there are nine or ten amendments to be voted on, some of which are extremely lengthy. Of course, they are worded so shittily, you practically have to have a lawyer with you to interpret them. I have a Master's degree in English, and I would not have wanted to read through this dreck on my own. I cannot imagine your average voter in the booth with this thing in front of them and a line of people behind them. Another reason I voted by mail and definitely another strong reason we are encouraging early voting here.

Oh, and if you're a Dem in Florida: we suggest voting "No" on all of them. Just saved ya some reading.