The Grateful Dead

[El Picador]

The release also has some material that is so sluggish and weak sounding, if you played it for a stranger and said, "How do you like this band?"... well, I don't think you would find many converts. The China Doll is a case in point, but there are others too. I understand it's a full show, but it will never replace Reckoning or Dead Set for me in my go-to list of 1980 Dead.

Dead Set?

Okay, this explains why you do not like the Dave's Picks releases. I never thought I would hear somebody say that they would prefer Dead Set to an unedited performance recording.

[calvino]

Yeah, there are ways to get it that even a un-computer saavy dude like me can figure out.  I don't need to worry about what Dave picks or doesn't pick because I can just go get the stuff I really want.  The only thing that kinda sucks is that if even part of a show has been released as filler, the whole show (on SBD) can't even be streamed.  But the amount of stuff available still is pretty impressive and should be enough to make just about anybody happy   Part of why I subscribed this year was to contribute to the endeavor and not be a total freeloader.  I think I've done my part.

 

I wouldn't be subscribing if I was shelling out the dough - but it's kinda of cool to get a disc every 3 months or so in the mail, as a gift.

 

Typically I buy every third release or so, if I think it should be a decent one - but I down load a shit load more. If I have a decent download prior to a release, I usually forgo a purchase - this is a reason I haven't bought the May 77 box set release or the Warlock set -- these are the only two box sets that they released that I don't have.

[mountain bed]

I get 'em all because I'm sick! That completist gene runs deep I guess!

[Lammycat]

But think of the extra beer money you'd have if you didn't PURCHASE all of the releases.....

[Mr. Heartbreak]

 I'm talking about  it seems you don't like stuff that is pretty much inherent to the Dead.  I'm baffled that you hear a sluggish performance in the latest Dave's release.  If that is sluggish to you, I would think that all Grateful Dead would sound sluggish, because to my ears that is a tight, spry performance with few mistakes and a good amount of energy, definitely far above the average of live Dead.  I'm kinda surprised that you like any Grateful Dead because you seem to more often than not be disappointed with stuff. 

Well, maybe I should put in a disclaimer whenever I post in this thread: I have the entire Grateful Dead catalog, most of it on CD, along with about a hundred or two hundred shows on mp3 (acquired in the last ten or so years) and cassette tape (acquired between 1983 and 2000).

 

Unlike many Deadheads, I love Europe '72. To me, those versions of Chinacat>Rider are "just exactly perfect." (Are my Deadhead bona fides showing yet?) I also love the versions of Bertha, Me & Bobby McGee and Wharf Rat on Skull & Roses. Those, to me, are the definitive versions. And I love the Feel Like A Stranger>Franklin's Tower on Dead Set; hence my comment above.

 

I guess what I am saying is that, ultimately, it feels like they are scraping the bottom of the barrel. I am probably a much better candidate for Road Trips type releases (got a few of those too), because I am always hoping to find great new, or even Top 3, versions of songs. I already have multiple versions of all this stuff, and as was mentioned, most has been widely available for free for many years. If I am going to pay for something I can get for free, I want to feel like I am getting something for my money. Even you admit that you haven't been thrilled with Dave's Picks and are not gonna subscribe again, so why should my take be any different?

 

I do find it odd that you feel a need to critique my critique and tell me it sounds like I don't like stuff that is inherent to the Dead. There are plenty of Dead performances I have no desire to listen to, but not because I don't like the band or their songs. It's because I find it painful to listen to a subpar performance of songs I have heard great versions of already. The only stuff I can't abide in their original formats are the last songs they did, like Wave to the Wind or whatever it was. We're all posting on here because we love the Dead, not because we want to say something negative. Just enjoy what you enjoy and ignore my posts if it bothers you.

[Lammycat]

Everybody loves Europe '72! I think Shug's point is only that live albums like Dead Set and Europe '72 are amalgamations of different shows rather than complete shows (warts and all). I know many, many a head who doesn't like the spliced/mix-tape GD stuff simply due to wanting to hear the music in it's entirety. 

[Shug]

OK man!  Just discussing stuff you brought up. 

[Analogman]

For those of you who may be bummed about the SBD shows being blocked at Archive.org. You can find just about every SBD there is at bt.etree.org.

 

I have not bought a GD cd in a long time - but I will be getting that acoustic release coming out at the end of the month.

[Mr. Heartbreak]

I have not bought a GD cd in a long time - but I will be getting that acoustic release coming out at the end of the month.

 

I have more than enough at this point. I may seek out some of these releases online - I have never felt guilty about "stealing" something that was widely available to every one in the world for over 25 years - but I will not likely buy another one unless I get a thorough preview of it first. Still not sure if I can unload these Dave's Picks on Amazon, but I will give it a shot. Most likely, I will at least get my money back.

[El Picador]

 

I have more than enough at this point. I may seek out some of these releases online - I have never felt guilty about "stealing" something that was widely available to every one in the world for over 25 years - but I will not likely buy another one unless I get a thorough preview of it first. Still not sure if I can unload these Dave's Picks on Amazon, but I will give it a shot. Most likely, I will at least get my money back.

 

I can relate. I haven't bought a Dead release in years. I think the last one I bought was Dick's Picks 12 (6/28/74 is the best GD show in my opinion) all those years ago. Yet I have everything they've ever released, as well as about 1500 hours on cassette tape in my garage. No need to keep spending money. I've paid my dues.

[Vacant Horizon]

Mr. Heartbreak,

 

I agree with you. I too love Reckoning and Dead Set. And I can't stand the arbitrary 'who's a real deadhead bull shit'! There's lots of different areas for fans to dig into. I like the curated releases like Deadset and Without a Net. These shows being released are kind of a money grab, which I can't blame them for, but I wish they'd just make all shows available for $10 download. If they want to put out a product, then they should be edited and fixed. Leave the warts on the downloads though.

[Shug]

There is no "who's a real Deadhead bullshit" going on here, there is just a matter of the ratio of negative complaints to positive enthusiasm.  I'm all for listening with a keen ear and giving an honest reaction, but when its mostly negative with very little positive enthusiasm, its gets old.  If you don't wanna rain on everyone's parade, then balance out the negativity by also talking about performances/shows that get you stoked.

[Analogman]

 

I have more than enough at this point. I may seek out some of these releases online - I have never felt guilty about "stealing" something that was widely available to every one in the world for over 25 years - but I will not likely buy another one unless I get a thorough preview of it first. Still not sure if I can unload these Dave's Picks on Amazon, but I will give it a shot. Most likely, I will at least get my money back.

 

 

I am not really interested in anything past 1973 or thereabouts. Except for maybe a couple of bands - I don't do the completest thing anymore. I am buying the release at the end of the month - because it is acoustic stuff. You can't argue with this:

 

 

Side A:

I Know You Rider

Don’t Ease Me In

Silver Threads and Golden Needles

Friend of the Devil

Deep Elem Blues

 

Side B:

Wake Up Little Susie

Candyman

Cumberland Blues

New Speedway Boogie

Record 2

 

Side A:

Me and My Uncle

Mama Tried

Katie Mae

Side B:

Ain’t It Crazy (The Rub)

Roberta

Bring Me My Shotgun

The Mighty Flood

Black Snake

 

 

I would not call myself a deadhead. I just enjoy listening to the Grateful Dead from time to time.

[Mr. Heartbreak]

There is no "who's a real Deadhead bullshit" going on here, there is just a matter of the ratio of negative complaints to positive enthusiasm.  I'm all for listening with a keen ear and giving an honest reaction, but when its mostly negative with very little positive enthusiasm, its gets old.  If you don't wanna rain on everyone's parade, then balance out the negativity by also talking about performances/shows that get you stoked.

If they put out something really stellar, I would be the first to respond with some serious enthusiasm. They haven't. I paid $100 for four Dead shows, with high hopes of getting something I would love. Every release was a disappointment to me...even the bonus disc.

 

Last night, I thought, "Well, I'll give this 1980 Scarlet>Fire another listen. Maybe I'll like it better." I could not get through the first 30 seconds. Switched to my iPod, looked for a random Scarlet>Fire from spring of '77. Picked 5/4/77 without even remembering it. And rocked out. It was so much better, with Phil's runs on the bass, the floaty feel of "the transition"...There's a performance that got me stoked.

 

By the way, I looked through the 1,000+ Dead tunes I have on my iPod, and apparently, I liked Dick's Picks a lot better than Dave's. Who knew? Kept all kinds of highlights on there, if not full releases.

 

This morning at work, my iTunes came up with the Throwing Stones>Touch of Grey from 10/9/82. Now there is a warts-and-all show begging for release.

[Lammycat]

I can listen to any GD show from any year and find enjoyment in at least a good chunk of the show. This isn't an attempt at one-upmanship or any other bullshit in the least, but rather a testament to the band. I personally never understood how folks could ignore/dismiss entire eras/years/whatever.

 

I really like being able to put on a tune or a set or a show from one era to the next back-to-back and dig on the changes in sound, tempo, nuance, whatever. This includes the Vince years, too. There are some really well-played (and often jammy) Corrina's and Long Way To Go Home's, etc. There are high points and very worthy music from every year of the band.

 

I like coming back to say, '93 after spending a few weeks/months enjoying a lot of late 70s or whatever and cranking up Autzen '93 Jack Straw, Bertha opener that's one of the best versions of that 1-2 punch combo ever, imo. Or the All Too Much to start second set in Philly '95 soon followed by an amazing Visions. Shit like that....

[jw harding]

Wish they'd release more compilations. Really liked Fall Out From the Philzone, which was just a bunch of random tunes over their entire career, but outstanding versions. There are so many different types of compilations they could put out, and with itnues playlists, I think that is they way people tend to listen to music these days - cowboy songs, blues, rockers, ballads, thematic jams (MLB, Spanish), etc.

 

If a really great show is released I'll pick it up. Bought the May 77 box and Field Trip show, but those were the first ones I had purchased in maybe 5 years. Sound quality and packaging made it worth it. Dave seems like a nice guy and all, but his picks are underwhelming or the well is running dry.

 

I prefer compilations so much my go to Dark Star is Greyfolded. All killer no filler 160 minutes of mind expansion.

[calvino]

I prefer compilations so much my go to Dark Star is Greyfolded. All killer no filler 160 minutes of mind expansion.

 

Amazingly  - I only heard Greyfolded for the first time a few months ago - got it from the library - it is very interesting and a cool listen.

Need to check it out again or buy it.

[jw harding]

I can listen to any GD show from any year and find enjoyment in at least a good chunk of the show. This isn't an attempt at one-upmanship or any other bullshit in the least, but rather a testament to the band. I personally never understood how folks could ignore/dismiss entire eras/years/whatever.

 

I really like being able to put on a tune or a set or a show from one era to the next back-to-back and dig on the changes in sound, tempo, nuance, whatever. This includes the Vince years, too. There are some really well-played (and often jammy) Corrina's and Long Way To Go Home's, etc. There are high points and very worthy music from every year of the band.

 

I like coming back to say, '93 after spending a few weeks/months enjoying a lot of late 70s or whatever and cranking up Autzen '93 Jack Straw, Bertha opener that's one of the best versions of that 1-2 punch combo ever, imo. Or the All Too Much to start second set in Philly '95 soon followed by an amazing Visions. Shit like that....

 

Wasn't there an excellent version of Iko that preceded that All Too Much? Jerry goes bonkers and won't let it end. It would be hard to imagine a 95 show being released, but a compilation could work. That Visions is already on Fallout from the Philzone.

[Lammycat]

Yep, there was an Aiko that opened that set that is quite good. Spaced that.

 

Never got into Greyfolded. Listened to it once and don't think even the whole way through. Just a little too much for me.

[calvino]

XM is currently playing 6/2/95 - enjoying the spry Good Morning Little School Girl.

[Vacant Horizon]

There is no "who's a real Deadhead bullshit" going on here, there is just a matter of the ratio of negative complaints to positive enthusiasm.  I'm all for listening with a keen ear and giving an honest reaction, but when its mostly negative with very little positive enthusiasm, its gets old.  If you don't wanna rain on everyone's parade, then balance out the negativity by also talking about performances/shows that get you stoked.

The only one raining on the parade is you, Shug. Take it easy. There's nothing worse than someone attempting to dictate the tone of a thread.

 

.....

 

As for comps, yes, phil zone was great. I love having that Visions of Johnna without having to listen to the entire show. I'd love to see a spring 93 comp. There were some gems that tour. Maybe splice the tunes together and do some editing a la Without A Net.

[Vacant Horizon]

I can listen to any GD show from any year and find enjoyment in at least a good chunk of the show. This isn't an attempt at one-upmanship or any other bullshit in the least, but rather a testament to the band. I personally never understood how folks could ignore/dismiss entire eras/years/whatever.

 

I really like being able to put on a tune or a set or a show from one era to the next back-to-back and dig on the changes in sound, tempo, nuance, whatever. This includes the Vince years, too. There are some really well-played (and often jammy) Corrina's and Long Way To Go Home's, etc. There are high points and very worthy music from every year of the band.

 

I like coming back to say, '93 after spending a few weeks/months enjoying a lot of late 70s or whatever and cranking up Autzen '93 Jack Straw, Bertha opener that's one of the best versions of that 1-2 punch combo ever, imo. Or the All Too Much to start second set in Philly '95 soon followed by an amazing Visions. Shit like that....

I'm the same way. I do enjoy every era. It is fun to hear a killer 74 show and then a 90s show. Corinna did open up quite a bit a few times. Especially into drums.

[Mr. Heartbreak]

There's nothing worse than someone attempting to dictate the tone of a thread.

 

I kind of agree with this, although I understand why ol' Shug is bummed out by my comments. It's almost like having someone tell you that new coat you bought looks ugly. You're like, Wow, this new release is great, and I come along and say, Nah, it sucks.

 

Ironically, I am one who really tries to surround himself with positive people and be as positive as I can. I have to say, I was genuinely distressed to get these picks, knowing I had paid for all of them in advance. I wanted to love them. I awaited each one eagerly. I remember bitching about the last one, but then revising my review, saying, Okay, that Scarlet > Fire is worth the price of admission! (the one with Jerry going "Let it burn, let it burn" or whatever). So it just shows what a sucker I am, I will be okay with paying thirty dollars for a release based on only two songs! The rest...not so much.

 

Maybe I'll go add more detail about that Zappa release to the Zappa thread. That's where my enthusiasm has been this week.

[mountain bed]

I can listen to any GD show from any year and find enjoyment in at least a good chunk of the show. This isn't an attempt at one-upmanship or any other bullshit in the least, but rather a testament to the band. I personally never understood how folks could ignore/dismiss entire eras/years/whatever.

 

I really like being able to put on a tune or a set or a show from one era to the next back-to-back and dig on the changes in sound, tempo, nuance, whatever. This includes the Vince years, too. There are some really well-played (and often jammy) Corrina's and Long Way To Go Home's, etc. There are high points and very worthy music from every year of the band.

 

I like coming back to say, '93 after spending a few weeks/months enjoying a lot of late 70s or whatever and cranking up Autzen '93 Jack Straw, Bertha opener that's one of the best versions of that 1-2 punch combo ever, imo. Or the All Too Much to start second set in Philly '95 soon followed by an amazing Visions. Shit like that....

LC hits it on the head for me there. There's good (and not so good) in every era. I must admit, of all the eras I definitely listen to the Vince Years ('92-'95) the least but I challenge anyone to listen to (just to name a couple of examples) the 5/26/93 Playin or the 6/23/93 Jam out of Terrapin and not say, " DAMN, that was GOOD SHIT!"  The entire first set from 6/28/92 is smokin, and that whole show would be a worthy release.

[Shug]

The only one raining on the parade is you, Shug. Take it easy. There's nothing worse than someone attempting to dictate the tone of a thread.

 

 

Isn't you telling me to "take it easy" "dictating the the tone of a thread"?  That's the pot calling the kettle black, it seems to me.  Mr. Heartbreak is free to express his opinion and I am free to express how is bums me out, as he understands.  And you are free to make hypocritical statements, as well, although that is a bummer, too.