Hot Stove League '07-'08

[cryptique]

On the other hand, again, I think Willis is going to be a flop in the AL. And if these prospects turn out to be great, well, then I suppose the Marlins prove me wrong.

I've had the same hunch -- he could be a disaster in the AL. If he gets the right kind of coaching, though, I think he could still be an ace. I guess we'll see.

 

Maybin and Miller are pretty solid players ... the Marlins will have another good young team, if not next year, then probably in '09, when some of those other players begin to pan out.

 

Still waiting for my White Sox to fill some of their holes.

[Chris_H_2]

Jayson Stark said this morning that Florida gets about $60 million in revenue sharing, TV, radio, etc. before they sell a ticket. Their payroll this year will be around $10 million at most. There is no way in hell they're spending $50 million on the draft or international players. I'll bet they're not even spending $5 million.

 

Either contract the team or move it. It's a joke.

[rwrkb]

it's starting to sound like santana is staying put

[Chris_H_2]

it's starting to sound like santana is staying put

 

Wow, that's hard to believe, especially considering that the Twins are by no means guaranteed to compete next year in that division.

 

I still think that he goes, and I still think he goes to the Yankees.

[rwrkb]

according to peter gammons talks have cooled off. i think if he goes before the season it'll be to boston, if he goes during the season it'll be to the yankees. that's just my hunch.

[MrRain422]

The Twins really should move him. They were going to have trouble competing next season anyway, but now with the Tigers looking so much better, the Twins are pretty much guaranteed third place at best this year, even with Santana, so they may as well get what they can for him now since they have no chance at re-signing him. I think they're just waffling to raise the offers up to where they want them to be.

[rwrkb]

12:58 p.m., from Amy Nelson

 

[Lammycat]

BOS/Santana:

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2007/12/b...if_yankees.html

[rwrkb]

slightly off topic: The Schilling Rule

[rwrkb]

back on topic:

more from Schilling about the possible Santana trade

[Mr. Kinsley]

slightly off topic: The Schilling Rule

That's a solid rule. That's also a supremely lame incentive. All he has to do is find one sleazy reporter (difficult?) and he's got close to a million and the report gets a chunk too. Maybe less cynically, a reporter just genuinely likes Curt (it could happen) and wants him to get the cash despite a so-so season, so he throws him a bone with a third place vote. Maybe even a first place vote. Crazier things have happened.

[bobbob1313]

Perhaps Florida should stop being a AAA team for the rest of the league. Seriously, why doesn't Florida just pull the plug and pack their bags? It's embarrassing.

 

Yes, not overpaying for overrated veterans and getting value for the players you can't afford to sign (as opposed to, say, the Mariners 5 or 6 years ago, when they lost A-Rod and got 2 second round draft picks for him, woohoo!).

 

So why dismantle the teams after they win? Why is that necessary? If the city and ownership can't support the team, move it. The team is bleeding money and is basically a AAA franchise. The fact that there are exactly ZERO players remaining from the 2003 WS team is ridiculous considering it was only 4 years ago.

 

Most teams have about 5 players from their 2003 rosters with them right now. Oh no!

 

I'm on the fence about the Marlins. On the one hand, I admire their non-textbook way of doing things. It has certainly resulted in more titles for them than for my team. They are clearly doing something very right. But something feels wrong about it -- and I (try to) say that as an impartial observer (since the Mets have clearly benefitted from Marlins fire-sales in the past). I would hate to be a Marlins fan waking up this morning knowing that my team just traded Cabrera because they "had" to.

 

On the other hand, again, I think Willis is going to be a flop in the AL. And if these prospects turn out to be great, well, then I suppose the Marlins prove me wrong.

 

Tough day bobbob - maybe you come out ahead down the road, but I know this is not an easy pill to swallow...

 

I have to be realistic and understand that the team isn't in the financial situation to spend the money to keep these players, so at least the GM makes a concerted effort to get better instead of appeasing the fanbase and letting them walk once they are free agents and say "we tried".

 

Yeah, it sucks. But myself and everyone in Miami will forget about it when they are competitive again in 09-10.

 

Jayson Stark said this morning that Florida gets about $60 million in revenue sharing, TV, radio, etc. before they sell a ticket. Their payroll this year will be around $10 million at most. There is no way in hell they're spending $50 million on the draft or international players. I'll bet they're not even spending $5 million.

 

Either contract the team or move it. It's a joke.

 

Assuming those numbers are true and they weren't pull out of someone's ass (I've never heard any numbers close to 60 million in regards to those things), how can you fault the guy for trying to make money? It's a business. I'm guessing most other team owner's are pulling in 40-50 million in profit every year, but since their markets allow them to do so while maintaining an artificially high payroll (because the free agent market overvalues players), nobody says anything.

 

The bottom line is it's a business. As much emotional attachment as we have means nothing. YOU think John Henry gives a shit about his fans? The reason he can have a 150 million dollar payroll is because he brings in like 4,000,000,000 every year.

[Chris_H_2]

Assuming those numbers are true and they weren't pull out of someone's ass (I've never heard any numbers close to 60 million in regards to those things), how can you fault the guy for trying to make money? It's a business. I'm guessing most other team owner's are pulling in 40-50 million in profit every year, but since their markets allow them to do so while maintaining an artificially high payroll (because the free agent market overvalues players), nobody says anything.

 

The bottom line is it's a business. As much emotional attachment as we have means nothing. YOU think John Henry gives a shit about his fans? The reason he can have a 150 million dollar payroll is because he brings in like 4,000,000,000 every year.

 

Here's an interesting article for you. http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writ...ex.html?eref=T1

[bobbob1313]

I'm willing to bet the Marlins don't lose 100 games next year.

[tongue-tied lightning]

hmm, I might take that bet

[MrRain422]

That article also says that revenue sharing only brings in $30 million, not the $60 million cited earlier.

[bobbob1313]

hmm, I might take that bet

 

Please do.

 

The Marlins still have 2 .900 OPS guys to anchor the offense in Hanley and Jeremy Hermida, plus another 2 or 3 guys who can OPS .800 or so in Willingham, Uggla, and Jacobs. Maybin is the wild card. PECOTA has him down for a .250/.330/.430 line, which is a great improvement over what we had in CF last year. Depending on who we get to fill 3rd (either Rule V, or another trade), the offense might not lose all that much.

 

And the pitching last year was atrocious, and I can't see it doing much worse. Do I really have to worry about Miller doing worse than a 5.17 ERA, which is what Willis had last year? I'd be shocked if he didn't better that by at least a run and a half. And I'd be shocked if Scott Olsen doesn't improve, and we've got some young guys who i expect to improve.

 

I wouldn't even be surprised, honestly, to see this team do better than last year's. It all comes down to the pitching.

[MrRain422]

They're a 90 loss team easy, but I'm not so sure about 100. I'd guess mid-90s.

[Chris_H_2]

That article also says that revenue sharing only brings in $30 million, not the $60 million cited earlier.

 

No one said that the Marlins take in $60 million in revenue sharing alone. "Jayson Stark said this morning that Florida gets about $60 million in revenue sharing, TV, radio, etc. before they sell a ticket."

[bobbob1313]

No one said that the Marlins take in $60 million in revenue sharing alone. "Jayson Stark said this morning that Florida gets about $60 million in revenue sharing, TV, radio, etc. before they sell a ticket."

 

And you're implication that he is making 50 million in profits doesn't take into account that the team is actually paying a lease to play in their terrible stadium, and doesn't get any consessions or parking money. It doesn't take into account minor league contracts, coaching staff, or mnagement.

 

Essentially, from 03-5, the Marlins operated at a great loss. They are trying to make up the money lost plus gain a bankroll to use in a potential stadium

[Spawn's dad]

that's really no excuse

[rwrkb]

That's a solid rule. That's also a supremely lame incentive. All he has to do is find one sleazy reporter (difficult?) and he's got close to a million and the report gets a chunk too. Maybe less cynically, a reporter just genuinely likes Curt (it could happen) and wants him to get the cash despite a so-so season, so he throws him a bone with a third place vote. Maybe even a first place vote. Crazier things have happened.

 

oh, i agree. i have no problem with performance based incentives, but award based incentives take it a little too far, in my 'pinion. i think it's funny that this rule won't take effect until 2013, though. seems like it would make a bigger impact if they just did it.

[bobbob1313]

that's really no excuse

 

Huh? The guy should be forced to take net losses because nobody goes to his games and the owner prior to him (John Henry, considered a prick to Marlins' fans and a god to Red Sox fans) signed a terrible contract for the team's current lease that essentially gains them no profit on games? When no other owner in any sport anywhere does?

 

I mean, I'm not happy with having a 15 million dollar payroll, but I understand why. Do I wish we had a different owner who was more willing to put his own personal money into the team? Sure. But there's not much I can do about it, so I have to live with the fact that until we get a new owner or a new stadium, we have to do the best with what we can. It's ridiculous to imply that he should lose money so that the fans will be happy. He did that in 03-05 and nobody came anyways, so you cannot say "if he spends money, they will come".

[Spawn's dad]

it was a joke, lighten up.

[Mr. Kinsley]

it was a joke, lighten up.

You can't back a wounded and dejected marlin fan into a corner like that and expect him to chuckle. Times like these they are at their most dangerous and are liable to poke you in the eye with that... that... big pointy thing on the end of their nose.