Do you have trouble maintaining an election?

[JUDE]

Go Hillary 08'

[ikol]

Not necessarily:

 

 

[Good Old Neon]

I don't see how going back over 60 years addresses my point that terrorists target civilians. You can analyze the atomic bomb all you want with 60 years of perspective, but the situation isn't analogous. We were just trying to get them to surrender in a war that they declared on us. We could have invaded them instead, but with the line between civilian and military blurred in Japan, we would have been fighting civilians too. Even accepting your premise that bombing Hiroshima and Nagasaki was a terrorist tactic, fine, the U.S. and the rest of the world have changed since then. We don't do that anymore, whereas it the terrorists' primary tactic.

 

Sixty years is a drop in the bucket, my point, is that the US is not above targeting civilians when it is militarily expedient to do so. We also provide logistics, arms and training to military juntas who do directly target civilians

[OOO]

As creator of this thread, I request that all posts be able to fit onto one 1024x768 computer screen.

[JUDE]

[Good Old Neon]

As creator of this thread, I request that all posts be able to fit onto one 1024x768 computer screen.

 

[OOO]

[quote name='JUDE

[ikol]

Our failure to do anything in Africa is mindblowingly hypocritical.

 

And yet if we did something, we'd just be invading another nation that posed no direct threat to us.

[OOO]

And yet if we did something, we'd just be invading another nation that posed no direct threat to us.

 

This is why it's hypocritical. We invaded one country that wasn't a threat to us, but not this one.

[Good Old Neon]

And yet if we did something, we'd just be invading another nation that posed no direct threat to us.

 

I

[Guest Jules]

While republicans try and find a way to get the party to unite behind McCain a Hillary nomination sure could

go a long way towards that goal.

yep.

[MrRain422]

We could also be using our non-military resources much more effectively in Africa. The famine and disease throughout the continent could be greatly eleviated with way less money than we're spending on our military adventures around the world, and if we addressed those problems, we would be taking large steps to fix the political problems there as well.

[Good Old Neon]

We could also be using our non-military resources much more effectively in Africa. The famine and disease throughout the continent could be greatly eleviated with way less money than we're spending on our military adventures around the world, and if we addressed those problems, we would be taking large steps to fix the political problems there as well.

 

Great point.

[Mr. Kinsley]

We could also be using our military resources much more effectively in Africa. The famine and disease throughout the continent could be greatly eleviated with a pre-emptive strike on the entire continent, and if we addressed those problems, we would be taking large steps to fix the political problems there as well.

There. Fixed it for you.

[Duck-Billed Catechist]

Sorry to divert from actual issues to the horse race, but the next few states look strong for Obama

Washington 02/09 97

 

Louisiana 02/09 66

 

Nebraska 02/09 31

 

Maine 02/10 34

 

Virginia 02/12 101

 

Maryland 02/12 99

 

District of Columbia 02/12 38

 

Democrats Abroad 02/12 11

 

Wisconsin 02/19 92

 

Hawaii 02/19 29

 

Obama should win the caucus in Washington, as well as Louisiana, Nebraska, Maine would be more of a fight if it weren't a caucus (he should win it), DC, Wisconsin, and Hawaii.

 

Virginia should be close. No idea about the Democrats abroad. Then come the big states.

Texas 03/04 228

 

Ohio 03/04 161

 

One assumes Hillary should do well there unless Obama has overwhelming momentum from a string of victories.

Then

Rhode Island 03/04 32

 

Vermont 03/04 23

 

Wyoming 03/08 18 C

 

Mississippi 03/10 40

 

Obama should win all of these but Rhode Island (which he could win).

 

Then Hillary should (again, if the momentum isn't overwhelming) win:

 

Pennsylvania 04/22 188 C

 

Then:

North Carolina 05/06 134 (should be close)

 

Indiana 05/06 84 Obama

 

West Virginia 05/13 39 no idea--Clinton?

 

Oregon 05/20 65 C Obama

 

Kentucky 05/20 60 C --close, but I'd guess Clinton

 

Montana 06/03 24 Obama

 

South Dakota 06/03 23 C Obama

 

Puerto Rico 06/07 63 Clinton (traditionally these have been a solid bloc rather than proportional)

 

 

 

That is, of course, if it drags on to the bitter end.

[ZenLunatic]

war is bad

[mountain bed]

Thanks for the heads up on the upcoming primaries Graham. We'll keep our fingers crossed!

[bobbob1313]

We could also be using our non-military resources much more effectively in Africa. The famine and disease throughout the continent could be greatly eleviated with way less money than we're spending on our military adventures around the world, and if we addressed those problems, we would be taking large steps to fix the political problems there as well.

 

I would disagree with this entire assertion, though I am a big believe in the Malthusian Theory on population expansion. I don't believe aid will necessarily do anything to alleviate any of the problems in Africa. Oh, maybe for a generation, maybe even two, we could help. But the population is going to keep growing and if they can't develop enough food to subsist on their own now, they definitely will not be able to do so when the population doubles and triples in the coming years.

 

People get really pissed off when I say this, usually, because it makes me sound like a heartless bastard, but I'm ok with it. It's called being realistic.

 

Alot of people love the ideas expressed by Darwin until humans come into play. We are somehow exempt from the rules and laws of nature which everything else has to abide by.

 

But I'm rambling, probably not making sense, and definitely opening up a whole other can of worms.

[Reni]

you can thank Monsanto for some of that bullshit.

[MrRain422]

I would disagree with this entire assertion, though I am a big believe in the Malthusian Theory on population expansion. I don't believe aid will necessarily do anything to alleviate any of the problems in Africa. Oh, maybe for a generation, maybe even two, we could help. But the population is going to keep growing and if they can't develop enough food to subsist on their own now, they definitely will not be able to do so when the population doubles and triples in the coming years.

 

People get really pissed off when I say this, usually, because it makes me sound like a heartless bastard, but I'm ok with it. It's called being realistic.

 

Alot of people love the ideas expressed by Darwin until humans come into play. We are somehow exempt from the rules and laws of nature which everything else has to abide by.

 

But I'm rambling, probably not making sense, and definitely opening up a whole other can of worms.

 

 

I know what you mean, and I don't think that it's heartless. I just think that you're wrong. If they are able to stabilize their governments and industrialize, why shouldn't they be able to support their population? At least as well as the rest of the industrialized world does. Also, in case you haven't noticed, people tend to have smaller families, so the population explosion would probably slow down some.

 

Also, I think that fixing the problem for a generation or two is a perfectly fine thing to do. How many major problems can we fix forever? I doubt there's ever been a single one. But solving it for a generation or two, and then changing our approach to match changing conditions over time, seems wise and not unrealistic.

[Mr. Kinsley]

From the LA Times opinion section today. Pretty funny take on Obama-mania.

 

Joel Stein:

He's got Obamaphilia

It's embarrassing to be among the fanatics of a relatively mainstream presidential candidate.

February 8, 2008

 

 

You are embarrassing yourselves. With your "Yes We Can" music video, your "Fired Up, Ready to Go" song, your endless chatter about how he's the first one to inspire you, to make you really feel something -- it's as if you're tacking photos of Barack Obama to your locker, secretly slipping him little notes that read, "Do you like me? Check yes or no." Some of you even cry at his speeches. If I were Obama, and you voted for me, I would so never call you again.

 

Obamaphilia has gotten creepy. I couldn't figure out if the two canvassers who came to my door Sunday had taken Ecstasy or were just fantasizing about an Obama presidency, but I feared they were going to hug me. Scarlett Johansson called me twice, asking me to vote for him. She'd never even called me once about anything else. Not even to see "The Island."

 

What the Cult of Obama doesn't realize is that he's a politician. Not a brave one taking risky positions like Ron Paul or Dennis Kucinich, but a mainstream one. He has not been firing up the Senate with stirring Cross-of-Gold-type speeches to end the war. He's a politician so soft and safe, Oprah likes him. There's talk about his charisma and good looks, but I know a nerd when I see one. The dude is Urkel with a better tailor.

 

All of this is clear to me, and yet I have fallen victim. I was at an Obama rally in Las Vegas last month, hanging at the rope line afterward in the cold night desert air, just to see him up close, to make sure he was real. I'd never heard a politician talk so bluntly, calling U.S. immigration policy "scapegoating" and "demagoguery." I'd never had even a history teacher argue that our nation's history is a series of brave people changing others' minds when things were on the verge of collapse. I want the man to hope all over me.

 

Still, I can't help but feel incredibly embarrassed about my feelings. In the "Yes We Can" music video that will.i.am made of Obama's Jan. 8 speech, I spotted Eric Christian Olsen, a very smart actor I know. (His line is "Yes we can.") I called to see if he had gone all bobby-soxer for Obama, or if he was just shrewdly taking a part in a project that upped his Q rating.

 

Turns out Olsen not only contributed money, he volunteered in Iowa and California and made hundreds of calls. He also sent out a mass e-mail to his friends that contained these lines: "Nothing is more fundamentally powerful than how I felt when I met him. I stood, my hand embraced in his, and ... I felt something ... something that I can only describe as an overpowering sense of Hope." That's the gayest e-mail I've ever read, and I get notes from guys who've seen me on E!

 

When I started to make fun of Olsen, he said: "I get that it's a movement. But it's not like a movement for Nickelback. For the first time, we should feel justified in our passion. You don't have to feel embarrassed about it, buddy." It was a convincing argument until he told me he cried during an Obama speech. That did not help me feel less lame.

 

So to de-Romeo-ize, I called someone immune to Obama's hottie dreaminess: a white suburban feminist baby boomer. To get two things done at once, I called my mother.

 

My mom, a passionate Hillary Clinton supporter, immediately attacked Obamamania. "Some part of me wants to say, 'People wake up. He has no plans.' I get frustrated listening to his speeches after awhile," she said. She also said that the new vacation house in Key West is really great and her vertigo hasn't been acting up.

 

I started to feel a little more grounded again. Did I want to be some dreamer hippie loser, or a person who understands that change emerges from hard work and conflict? "People are projecting an awful lot onto him," Mom said. "Almost like what was that movie with, oh, the movie, oh God. That English actor, he practically said nothing. Oh shoot. He was the butler and everybody loved him and what he was thinking and feeling. Do you know the movie I'm talking about? You don't." Hers, of course, is the demographic most likely to vote.

 

But she's right. Obama is Peter Sellers in "Being There." As a therapist, she's seen the danger of ungrounded expectations. "You feel young again. You feel like everything is possible. He helps you feel that way and you want to feel that way; it's a great marriage. Unfortunately, the divorce will happen very quickly." Mom is the kind of realistic tough-talker who isn't afraid to make divorce analogies to a child of divorce.

 

"We want what he represents," she said. "A young, idealistic person who really believes it. And he believes it. He believes he can change the world. I just don't think he can."

 

Thing is, I've watched too many movies and read too many novels; I can't root against a person who believes he can change the world. The best we Obamaphiles can do is to refrain from embarrassing ourselves. And I do believe that we can resist making more "We Are the World"-type videos. We can resist crying jags. We can resist, in every dinner argument and every e-mail, the word "inspiration." Yes, we can.

 

jstein@latimescolumnists.com

[solace]

Obama wins Nebraska by more than doubling Hillary's votes:

 

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/files/electio...ECTION=POLITICS

 

[Duck-Billed Catechist]

Washington too, so far.

[solace]

Washington too, so far.

yup, 2:1 margin there with 40% in

[Duck-Billed Catechist]

I read somewhere that Hillary would be fine if she got a respectable 35% in these states. That's not happening. Obama's going to get a big delegate differential today.