Opening for Neil?

[solace]

Yeah, Wilco circa 2008 is far more popular than Lucinda Williams circa 2003.

 

a little, sure, but they play similiar size venues

[Vacant Horizon]

New neil is better than any shit coming out today and the last 2 decades. i for one can't stand indie rock and all its cuteness and ridiculous punk attitude. talk about being nostalgia acts. wilco is in the same boat. i have tried for years to figure out what it is about tweedy that bothers me and it is him trying to be so cute. his little songs with the capo up so high on the fret board about aquarium drinking...give me a break! i'll take neil young any day. even new dylan!

 

 

 

personally, I hate his music (with the expection of some of that Massey Hall album and On the Beach), but it goes beyond that. I feel like if you're still kind of (relatively) an up-and-coming rock band getting more mainstream attention, the last person I'd want to go on tour with is Neil Young. Why? a) he's just another aging boomer relic who is pulling out the "rares" in order to wow the audience that grew up on his hits while simultaneously egging on your overzealous critic fans to give you more praise than you deserve. Each member of your band can singlehandedly outperform him and has made better records on their bad days than this guy's best days. however, due to the novelty fact that "he's freaking Neil Young!" you'll never be given the credit ('you' being Wilco) you really deserve.

 

I mean, come on, to be fair, I don't like Neil Young but I think we could all agree here Wilco puts him out of business in terms of actual showmanship. His songs, not that he can help it, are either given a folk rock or grunge rock treatment and they never are given the room to breath life. Whereas, you have a band like Wilco, with two superhuman musicians and probably the most likable singer-songwriter in his age group playing songs of more dense emotional (okay, opinion) and musical (this however I feel is fact) complexities-- the craftsmanship of the mentioned bringing a tight yet spaced out sound. I feel like Wilco going on tour with that guy is Wilco not giving themselves enough credit. Yeah, he's Neil Young, but you're doing now what he did yesterday in terms of making contemporary, fresh, new sounding music. You're not recycling as much as your contemporaries are, the music you make is as new now is his was then. You should be the ones on stage, you can't help it that the music business has (for the most part) aged more intelligently than him and you get overlooked.

don't get me wrong. if you wanna go see Neil Young, go see Neil Young. But everyone should be going ape over getting to see him open for Wilco, not the other way around. I'm sure I'm the only one that feels this way, I'm sure I sound backwards to probably 99% of the people here.

[LouisvilleGreg]

"Prairie Wind" is a pretty heavy album to me. Heavy in that the majority of the songs deal with his father's death and his own battle with mortality after his brain aneurysum. Some of the tracks are a bit to over the top with the orchestra arrangements, but "Far From Home," "Falling of the face of the Earth," "The Painter," and "It's A Dream" all pack quite an emotional wallop. Seeing Neil with any configuration with Wilco would be a can't miss concert. This guy contributed more to the rock canon in the first decade of his career than most people have in a lifetime and As noted Wilco and Jeff would be quite a different band had he never existed.

[nodep5]

 

Why are you laughing at me? or with me?

I knew it (don't get into any Neil Young arguements today) Damn it!

[froggie]

BREAKING NEWS: Some People Have Different Tastes Than You

- Experts say that everything will be okay

 

have you got a CNN link for that?

[giraffo]

New neil is better than any shit coming out today and the last 2 decades. i for one can't stand indie rock and all its cuteness and ridiculous punk attitude. talk about being nostalgia acts. wilco is in the same boat. i have tried for years to figure out what it is about tweedy that bothers me and it is him trying to be so cute. his little songs with the capo up so high on the fret board about aquarium drinking...give me a break! i'll take neil young any day. even new dylan!

 

my view on Tweedy specifically was that he played a nice line between "rock deity" (i.e Neil Young) and somone who's 40 and has a wife and kids. Guys like Dylan and Neil Young expect everyone to bow down and have never had anyone shrink their giant heads (as seen here), while Tweedy seems generally easygoing and down to earth for somone who is a popular rock musician.

 

like I said, I figured people would be aghast at my opinion, and they are. Yeah, Wilco owes a buttload to Young, but that doesn't mean that the guy is some olympian figure. The only person, like I've undoubtedly said before on this board, who is owed the hyperbolic praise would have to be Brian Wilson. Otherwise, I see a lot of these icons as just people with overblown egos (Pete freaking Townshend, Bob Dylan--the most condescending egomaniac to ever become a popular American) who are pretending like they never got old and became (for the most part) irrelevant. Blame Rolling Stone. These guys aren't gods. Most of them aren't even that bright (Neil Young, for instance, ate weed sauteed in honey--go figure). They just happen to make music. It's their job, like somone's job is an accountant, or a clerk. If you strip away the mythology that's what you get. I'm not saying let's put Wilco on the pedestal now. I'm just saying that people should be more open to new things and willing to reign in the next thing instead of focusing on the old-- that's the attitude that got these past musicians where they are.

Otherwise, I think it's weird that people want to complain about new pop music sucking or etc-- they're not willing to embrace anything new.

[CortezTheKiller]

my view on Tweedy specifically was that he played a nice line between "rock deity" (i.e Neil Young) and somone who's 40 and has a wife and kids. Guys like Dylan and Neil Young expect everyone to bow down and have never had anyone shrink their giant heads (as seen here), while Tweedy seems generally easygoing and down to earth for somone who is a popular rock musician.

 

like I said, I figured people would be aghast at my opinion, and they are. Yeah, Wilco owes a buttload to Young, but that doesn't mean that the guy is some olympian figure. The only person, like I've undoubtedly said before on this board, who is owed the hyperbolic praise would have to be Brian Wilson. Otherwise, I see a lot of these icons as just people with overblown egos (Pete freaking Townshend, Bob Dylan--the most condescending egomaniac to ever become a popular American) who are pretending like they never got old and became (for the most part) irrelevant. Blame Rolling Stone. These guys aren't gods. Most of them aren't even that bright (Neil Young, for instance, ate weed sauteed in honey--go figure). They just happen to make music. It's their job, like somone's job is an accountant, or a clerk. If you strip away the mythology that's what you get. I'm not saying let's put Wilco on the pedestal now. I'm just saying that people should be more open to new things and willing to reign in the next thing instead of focusing on the old-- that's the attitude that got these past musicians where they are.

Otherwise, I think it's weird that people want to complain about new pop music sucking or etc-- they're not willing to embrace anything new.

I liked it better when you simply typed:

jeez, is this really the type of person Wilco wants to associate with?

[Wendy]

I can't wait to hear your opinion of Gram Parsons!

[Guest Jules]

I can't wait to hear your opinion of Gram Parsons!

hack!

[FourStrongWinds]

B ) Each member of the band can singlehandedly outperform him and has made better records on their bad days than this guy's best days.

 

You have clearly never seen Neil Young play live

[Vacant Horizon]

my view on Tweedy specifically was that he played a nice line between "rock deity" (i.e Neil Young) and somone who's 40 and has a wife and kids. Guys like Dylan and Neil Young expect everyone to bow down and have never had anyone shrink their giant heads (as seen here), while Tweedy seems generally easygoing and down to earth for somone who is a popular rock musician.

 

like I said, I figured people would be aghast at my opinion, and they are. Yeah, Wilco owes a buttload to Young, but that doesn't mean that the guy is some olympian figure. The only person, like I've undoubtedly said before on this board, who is owed the hyperbolic praise would have to be Brian Wilson. Otherwise, I see a lot of these icons as just people with overblown egos (Pete freaking Townshend, Bob Dylan--the most condescending egomaniac to ever become a popular American) who are pretending like they never got old and became (for the most part) irrelevant. Blame Rolling Stone. These guys aren't gods. Most of them aren't even that bright (Neil Young, for instance, ate weed sauteed in honey--go figure). They just happen to make music. It's their job, like somone's job is an accountant, or a clerk. If you strip away the mythology that's what you get. I'm not saying let's put Wilco on the pedestal now. I'm just saying that people should be more open to new things and willing to reign in the next thing instead of focusing on the old-- that's the attitude that got these past musicians where they are.

Otherwise, I think it's weird that people want to complain about new pop music sucking or etc-- they're not willing to embrace anything new.

 

 

you know, i can get on board with what your saying here. rock star mythology is cool, but ultimately ridiculous. i just happen to like some guys (dylan, neil) that have that mythology, but also make music i like. now, as far as new music goes, i do like magnolia electric and despite my issues with tweedy, i am hot and cold with wilco. oh, and i love dbt. and you are right, these guys are all working hard as musicians without falling into that whole rock icon stuff! that's why i don't feel like i have to meet jason molina, jeff, or patterson hood. they make music, i come listen. that's it.

[Dreamin']

Jeff Tweedy's most essential live album: Live Rust

 

I just saw him at Farm Aid. He did "Southern Man" with the Fisk University gospel choir. It was a fucking perfect performance of a classic song' date=' and maybe my favorite moment ever of seeing live music."[/quote']

I am totally jealous of anyone who saw that performance.

[Wendy]

I am totally jealous of anyone who saw that performance.

 

I was lucky. Almost didn't go because I do not like that venue, but great tix opened up the day before and it was a glorious day to see Wilco ... and my first NY performance.

[Preferred B]

I watched the webcast of Neil's performance that day. Sadly, I don't think that quite counts.

[giraffo]

I liked it better when you simply typed:

 

I know, I'm sorry.

 

I can't keep my mouth shut.

[noyes]

i can understand the good in not getting wrapped up in the whole "rock god" point of view when it comes to music,

and i don't think anyone here is not embracing new music or "willing to reign in" new bands like wilco etc.

if anything, i would assume that everyone here thinks that Wilco is an extremely special band that will be looked back upon as masterful songwriters and musicians,

but to literally belittle someone like Bob Dylan as just someone who's "doing his job", as if he didn't write album upon album of classic and truly exceptional songs and was just merely "making music", manages to be an even worst point of view than putting them on an untouchable pedestal.

by relating Dylan or Neil to accountants, you are, whether you mean to or not, consciously trying to not accept their place in legend, in music history.

they're there for a reason and the reasons, for the most part, aren't bad. in fact, they're good, very accurate and well deserved.

sure, they're not perfect and many of them are actually downright flawed people (who isn't?), but anyone who pretends like they're completely normal and simply everyday Joes is just kidding themselves.

 

Nevertheless, you're obviously not an idiot and just speaking your mind, bringing up a good point about Jeff comparative down-to-earthness, but then again Jeff himself would most likely tell you that he's not quite near the same ballpark that guys like Neil and Bob are, despite the fact that they haven't been truly on top since the 60's and 70's

but it doesn't matter, it's completely irrelevant. they've already proven themselves. they are revered for a reason.

the same way Shakespeare is widely sited and read, or the same way the goddamn Beatles are what they are.

But anyway, I'm exhausted. That's my two cents. Sleep.

[ChooChooCharlie]

...my view on Tweedy specifically was that he played a nice line between "rock deity" (i.e Neil Young) and somone who's 40 and has a wife and kids. Guys like Dylan and Neil Young expect everyone to bow down and have never had anyone shrink their giant heads (as seen here), while Tweedy seems generally easygoing and down to earth for somone who is a popular rock musician.

 

I see a lot of these icons as just people with overblown egos (Pete freaking Townshend, Bob Dylan--the most condescending egomaniac to ever become a popular American) who are pretending like they never got old and became (for the most part) irrelevant. These guys aren't gods. Most of them aren't even that bright (Neil Young, for instance, ate weed sauteed in honey--go figure). They just happen to make music. It's their job, like somone's job is an accountant, or a clerk....

 

Otherwise, I think it's weird that people want to complain about new pop music sucking or etc-- they're not willing to embrace anything new.

I think its weird when people complain about new or old pop music sucking -- that is, if they enjoy pop music.

 

Hey, its bizarre to me when people get persoanlly insulted about other people's opinions concerning music/art, but you seem to be concerned more with persona than subjective musical opinions ("shrink giant heads" "overblown egos" "condescending egomaniac"). I also think its ironic you blame the media and "hyperbole" for inflating the legacies of revered musicians, when it appears your loathing for these artists is based, not so much on the music, as on that very same public attention you blame for the general positive consensus. Other than ambiguously criticizing "performance" you haven't named any specific reasons as to why you "hate" Neil Young, "Pete freaking Townshend," and other's music -- other than the aforementioned superficial distinctions about their public persona (and if it were merely personality you wanted to criticize, then I wouldn't start with Neil Young, who -- even if you personally dislike his music -- personifies artistic integrity, or whatever the opposite of 'selling out' is anyway). Yes, Jeff Tweedy is more accessible and interesting to me personally because he lives a few miles away, leads a relatively normal existence, and isn't propelled to godlike levels in Hollywood movies (Dylan) and other media. But that doesn't make his music better. Just like I'm Not There didn't make Dylan's music any worse (especially when Tweedy did "Simple Twist of Fate" on the soundtrack but I digress).

 

You essentially blame perpetual, unquestioning status quo for overrating the musicians that you "hate." Ironically, it seems that if you stripped that music of your own preconceived notions about the artist's legendary reputation, you would have little to hate about it (given the lack of specific criticism about the actual tunes). Relieved of that burden, maybe then you could be free to experience what many people on this board have been sharing: that the artistic brilliance of Neil Young, Bob Dylan, Pete Townshend etc., has been the catalyst for the creation of transcendent moments in people's lives -- moments that no "clerk" or "accountant" could possibly make. That's why art is inherently different than what I do for a living -- and, in my opinion, more important.

[stickman]

As much as I love Neil Young and Bob Dylan and Wilco, there is one fact to remember that makes for an easy solution: One of them was on the Spongebob Soundtrack and the other two were not.

[LouieB]

SHOCKING! I can't believe I'm reading this stuff on the Wilco board. What would we all do without everything Neil did from the first Buffalo Springfield album at least to Rust Never Sleeps?

=

 

 

"Prairie Wind" is a pretty heavy album to me. Heavy in that the majority of the songs deal with his father's death and his own battle with mortality after his brain aneurysum. Some of the tracks are a bit to over the top with the orchestra arrangements, but "Far From Home," "Falling of the face of the Earth," "The Painter," and "It's A Dream" all pack quite an emotional wallop. Seeing Neil with any configuration with Wilco would be a can't miss concert. This guy contributed more to the rock canon in the first decade of his career than most people have in a lifetime and As noted Wilco and Jeff would be quite a different band had he never existed.

Finally some controversy back on VC. I was beginning to worry that everyone had gone to sleep. It takes someone new saying something a bit outrageous to get shit going here.

 

Neil Young is one of the great DIY artists in all of rock. The guy took a modest talent (particuarly on electric guitar) and continues to turn out records year after year (sometimes several in one year) that can be hit or miss. The fact that the last twenty or thirty years of Neil Young you can take or leave isn't necessarily all that bad. Prairie wind sounded like a slight and maybe forgettable album and yet it was turned into an absolutely stunning movie. Living with War sounds like crap in most instances but at least the guy was moved enough by this ridiculous and seemingly endless war to put out an album protesting it. Silver and Gold and Harvest Moon are both fine albums. Each album has its pluses and minuses, but you can't say Neil doesn't get out there every day and keep trying to connect with his audience and project what he is thinking. Most (really all) of his contemporaries (including Bob Dylan and all of whom I grew up with) are now on autopilot and generally putting out stuff that is not that interesting, including all the "gods" who get talked about here alot (that includes Brian Wilson, Ray Davies, John Fogerty etc. etc.) I don't buy every Neil Young album, but you gotta give the guy credit. He hasn't stopped thinking about his art or trying to connect with his audience. Many younger performers could learn a thing or two from his example.

 

edit- I can imagine what a thrill it would be for Wilco to open for Neil. Who wouldn't want to do that?

 

LouieB

[CortezTheKiller]

I know, I'm sorry.

 

I can't keep my mouth shut.

You're more than entitled to your opinion. Unfortunately, your views on Neil seem misguided.

[cash]

Regardless of your feelings toward Neil Young you have to recognize that Neil has had a tremendous influence over Jeff. I would even go as far to say that Neil has probably influenced Jeff more than anyone else, with the possible exception of Gram Parsons.

 

So if Wilco opened for Neil, which would hopefully only be for a show or two (Wilco is beyond touring as an opening act), I would look at it as Wilco paying its respects to a rock legend way out of his heyday.

 

It would be like LeBron James playing a game of basketball with Wilt Chamberlain. Assuming Wilt could resurrect, of course.

[Boomookazoo]

The OP's head would explode if he or she heard Trans

 

I may be the only person in existence who liked the album; here's a taste from a live show..

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=un3ZGzbltkU...feature=related

 

and from the cd--just ignore the visuals :-)

 

vid

[suites]

The OP's head would explode if he or she heard Trans

 

I may be the only person in existence who liked the album; here's a taste from a live show..

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=un3ZGzbltkU...feature=related

 

and from the cd--just ignore the visuals :-)

 

vid

 

 

I like Trans.

[Dreamin']

I was lucky. Almost didn't go because I do not like that venue, but great tix opened up the day before and it was a glorious day to see Wilco ... and my first NY performance.

 

I watched the webcast of Neil's performance that day. Sadly, I don't think that quite counts.

Me too, B.

 

Southern Man was totally unexpected!

 

If I had been there to witness that, I'd still be boring people with stories about it.

[tedrock]

Comparing musical personalities to one another is like dancing to architecture -

And this is especially true when comparing ANYONE to Neil Young or Bob Dylan.

 

But here is my attempt -

Both Dylan and Young have been accused of being egomaniacal and prone to hissy fits,

have had long and healthy careers,

have battled addiction,

ave been credited with being poetic and relevatory and

are baby boomers.

 

Tweedy has been accused of being egomaniacal and prone to hissy fits,

is currently in the middle (hopefully) of a long and healthy career,

has battled addiction,

has been credited with being poetic and relevatory,

and is from Generation X.

 

A longer career breeds a longer back story which produces strata of opinions about past and current work.

My point - facts alone do not make the man or the music. Context is essential to make the musical statement meaningful.

These 'rock gods' are partly that way because of the context of the time they 'made it big' and the way the AUDIENCE interacted with those artists.

 

What is important is that the musician continues to follow his muse -

questions about whether the artist's work is still relevant are missing the point.

The musician is still following his muse.

(true for both Dylan and Young)

 

Opening for Neil would undoubtedly be a 'notch on the belt' for Tweedy -

a dream he probably never thought he would get the chance to say he did.

True or False?