Election Year!!!

[Party @ the Moontower]

i don't care to bother with articulating my side to you clowns.

 

 

Then go away. That's what people do in this thread. If we are clowns than why are you here so often?I think you love us.

 

i don't have tons of time to comment much amidst having to fetch milk/lemondae and fire up rapid fire episodes of wonder pets from on-demand.

 

her delivery of that speech was exactly what it needed to be, but (as stated) the substance of said speech was rife w/ half-truths and some flat-out inaccuracies. plus, as dr. no stated earlier, the ripping on his community work was the part that angered me the most...right or wrong, you can go toe to toe on 'executive' vs. legislative experience and i'll consider it fair game for debate...but slapping unelected community leaders/organizers/volunteers in the face by dismissing it's importance is just bad form. one could argue that if it wasn't for folks like that and we had to solely rely on state/local/national officials...NOTHING WOULD GET DONE.

 

i don't claim to know how this will all play out...i won't lie, the republican machine is now firing on all pistons and i'm a bit worried...but she (and the other speakers last night) opened the door to a gloves off/game on campaign from their opposition and all but begged the media to call her on the carpet w/ factual errors. if i hear one more time that the media is being biased, slanted or (most ridiculously) sexist i'll lose my mind. reap what you sow.

 

finally, fuck off rudy. dropping the word 'cosmopolitan' by the former mayor of the city that is the very definition of the word? knocking the same media that made you willingly let build you up as 'america's mayor'? pffft.

 

i won't have time to go out of state and canvas anything...but my yard signs/campain packs are on their way to decorate the fuck out of palatine.

 

 

This should be read over and over and over and over and over.

[Good Old Neon]

in my eyes he was america's mayor too. he did a fanatstic job as mayor during the whole tragedy...it's what makes his public performance since then that much more aggravating.

 

i think he made mention in his speech that he was appalled that the democrats at their convention did not mention 9/11...that they acted like it never happened. i'd ask him, what's worse...acting like it's the ONLY thing that has happened and mentioning it every opportunity you can for political gain.

 

nope. fuck off, rudy.

 

Yeah, I

[John Smith]

in my eyes he was america's mayor too. he did a fanatstic job as mayor during the whole tragedy...it's what makes his public performance since then that much more aggravating.

 

i think he made mention in his speech that he was appalled that the democrats at their convention did not mention 9/11...that they acted like it never happened. i'd ask him, what's worse...acting like it's the ONLY thing that has happened and mentioning it every opportunity you can for political gain.

 

nope. fuck off, rudy.

 

Thhat again is another Myth. Rudy did not do the great job he is credited with on 911. Sure he provided a steady presence on TV, but it was him who hhad the city's disaster reliief headquarters moved to the towers after they were bombed in 1993. Hardly stellar leadership. There is also the matter of the Kahane murder. Apparetnly they had some of the 1993 bombers in custody after the Kahane murder and they were freed under Rudy's watch. Freed and not surveiled. Talk about a Willie Horton moment.

[bleedorange]

in my eyes he was america's mayor too. he did a fanatstic job as mayor during the whole tragedy...it's what makes his public performance since then that much more aggravating.

 

i think he made mention in his speech that he was appalled that the democrats at their convention did not mention 9/11...that they acted like it never happened. i'd ask him, what's worse...acting like it's the ONLY thing that has happened and mentioning it every opportunity you can for political gain.

 

nope. fuck off, rudy.

 

I agree. Rudy did not come off very well at all last night, and it begs the question why the GOP would march him out there. Especially after his campaign fell flat on its face before it even got started. I would have preferred to see Michael Steele at a more primetime friendly slot. Of course, I'm sure this would have only raised the accusation of tokenism in some circles.

[Central Scrutinizer]

Wow ... this is worth a bump ...

 

Ministry of Information. They really seem to think the public won't remember what happened under their watch -- they sure are scrambling to make it seem like someone else's responsibility.

 

 

9/11 happened on their watch, Bin Laden is still out there, and it's the Dem's who are weak on national security?

 

And re 9/11, there are A LOT of unanswered questions, with very disturbing implications. Call it conspiracy theory if you want -- sometimes there are conspiracies. I'd suggest if you don't question the official story, it's likely you're the one drinking the koolaid.

 

• cheney leading multiple 'plane attacking building' military training scenarios as the attacks happened. hmmmm.
  
• the unprecedented and inexplicable structure failures. Commission's complete avoidance of WTC 7 collapse (and Marvin Bush's ties to the building).
  
• repeated warnings of airplane attacks -- how many? 52?
  
• remotely piloted attacks on buildings has long been under military consideration
  
• administration stonewalling the investigation
  
• why did Pakistani intelligence give Mohammed Atta $100,000?
  
• why are so many of the terrorists still alive?
  

 

Iraq -- a war presented and executed on false pretenses, made possible by the "Pearl Harbor" neocons called for to justify it.

 

Al Qaeda -- Why can't we find that BinLaden guy after 7 years?

 

Torture -- as Jon Stewart put it, if the Hanoi Hilton made McCain what he is today, Guantanamo must be a leadership training academy.

 

Deficit -- those damn Democrats left us with a budget surplus. Something must be done to stop their wasteful spending!

 

Debt -- much like the consumer credit crisis, let's not actually ensure the government has the income it needs to do what it wants, let's give corporate and wealthy further tax breaks and borrow the money from China. That's the ticket.

 

For the children -- we can't afford $200 million to provide children who lack it health insurance when we're spending $2 billion a week in Iraq. C'mon people, where are your priorities?

 

Tax policy favoring the wealthiest over 95% of the rest of us -- but the Republicans just keep lying about it.

 

Katrina. The pandering over Gustav was unavoidable of course, but repulsive nonetheless.

 

privatization/profiteering. Government should be just big enough to collect your money and give it to our buddies. Prisons, education, security, "rebuilding" Iraq. The Pentagon can't find $23 billion of your dollars.

 

Erosion of civil liberties. 8 million Americans ID'd as potential enemies. Farming out data mining on Americas to private companies because it's illegal for the govt to do it. Warrantless wiretapping, infiltration of community groups by fed spies. The Constitution -- just a damn piece of paper.

 

Energy policy written in secret by oil companies. Stonewalled any efforts to encourage dev't of alternative methods/sources (while giving billions in handouts to oil companies).

 

Voter repression, election theft, swift boat campaigning.

 

Unilateralism as foreign policy. Unitary executive power. Signing statements. Martial law/continuity of government plans. Bush family heavily invested in the weapons industry.

 

I have to go throw up now.

[Central Scrutinizer]

With the way our government is run, something tells me $200 million wouldn't do much for children with health insurance, unless you are talking about like, one free visit to the doctor, or something. THat number seems extremely low.

 

Gustav: Bush was damned if he did and damned if he didn't with that thing. Nothing he did would've pleased you. He couldn't ignore it, but he couldn't go down there or else it would be pandering. YOu know what the difference between Katrina and Gustav was? (I think, having lived in South Florida during one of the worst periods of hurricane activity in modern America I can comment on this) Gustav was a drop in the fucking bucket. It's a lot easier to get aide to people when you can physically get aide to them. Katrina had an entire city inundated, and infrastructure for miles around was crippled, meaning that the local government couldn't help, which is usually the first line of defense. IF you need to federal government to help immediately, it won't happen because of the beauracracy. Come on.

 

I hate having to defend Bush, there's plenty to rip him on that actually happened that you don't have to make stretches and leaps in logic to justify hating him.

If you believe this to be true -- that he is deserved of "ripping", why would you feel the need to defend him? What value is there -- for your own benefit or the Republican party or the greater good -- to support him and the policies -- McCain is 90%, as they say, in support of? You bring great value in your viewpoints to counter an obvious left focus here, but this is a weird contradiction.

 

Meanwhile, democrats have an inferiority complex that constantly keeps them in a fight against the "man", even though they have half of the power in this country.

 

Both parties have manufactured images, and both parties images are bullshit.

True and true. The Democratic party fails to realize that, if it could collect itself, it would be "the man." Then it would turn upon itself.

[mybenito]

Spill Baby Spill

[Mrs. Peel]

You missed a few.

 

Ok, here it is FHF, you saw it for real & know I didn't make this shit up!

 

What I received from one of my rural Missouri McCain supporters. I highlighted the new spelling of words for ya..

 

 

democrat Propaganda

 

From: War Machine (matt)

Date: Sep 3, 2008 4:08 PM

 

 

How many lies have they told about VP Gov Sarah Palin? She is takeing care of he doughter Kid? she got her borther enlaw fired? SO what if he is not doing his job then that shows she does not care who they are if there not geting the job done there out of there.

 

They call her that WOMAN ....THAT woman has a name...you dont hear us Republicans calling Hillary that dried up WOMAN. why would the democrats bring somones child into there polotcs?

 

Bottom line democrats are ingnorant and they have done everything they can too lose this race and it is there own fualt. And if your going to report the news, get facts right , LIberal bios assholes

 

 

"No Child Left Behind"

[EL the Famous]

If you believe this to be true -- that he is deserved of "ripping", why would you feel the need to defend him?

 

in his defense, the need occurs because in cases like trying to bash the adminstration over unprovable conspiracy of orchestrating 9/11 versus the scores of tangbile data-driven speaking points on how bad the administration was over the past 8 years...you are doing your cause more harm than good.

 

it's why, as good as obama is, i'm worried about we, his constituency, being the ones that do/say something to short citcuit his campaign and hand shit over once again.

[mfwahl]

it's why, as good as obama is, i'm worried about we, his constituency, being the ones that do/say something to short citcuit his campaign and hand shit over once again.

We are the ones we haven't been waiting for.

[EL the Famous]

We are the ones we haven't been waiting for.

 

classic!

[quarter23cd]

Well, I just made my first Obama donation of the campaign.

 

This is a weird election for me. Its no secret that I've been gritting my teeth and waiting out the last 8 years and, from the start, had no intention of voting for another Republican, pretty much regardless of the Dem nominee. As much as I like to think of myself as a political independent, I guess I've been backed firmly into the Democratic camp by, if nothing else, lack of options. Yeah, I went through the "there's no difference between the parties" phase in 2000 when I would have preferred Gore over Bush, and I don't exactly regret voting Nader except for the fact that the consequences of that election have been dreadful.

 

The "no difference between the parties" idea died for me long ago. Not that the Democratic party doesn't leave plenty to be desired, as well, but of all the various factions within the Democratic party, none of them do I find as objectionable as the Dobsonite segment of the GOP that Palin was specifically chosen to appease. Frankly, I find their mix of politics and theology to be a discredit to both, and I want them nowhere near the White House if I can help it. More than anything, their current level on influence in the party is the reason that I'd have a hard time supporting a GOP candidate for anything, even if they managed to put forward a candidate that I like. (which they haven't)

 

I've been mostly a dispassionate observer of the campaign this time around until recently, but Sarah Palin has just raised my angst levels considerably. (not the least of which because this is the first time I thought the GOP actually had a snowball's chance in hell of winning) The level of discourse turned ugly last night and made my stomach churn the way it did in '04 and part of me wants to drown it all out and stick my head in the sand and wait it out until November...the other part of me wants to do something, anything to avoid feeling what I felt when Bush got handed a second term.

 

So, yeah, I just spent money I can't really afford to be spending on a political campaign contribution. My old college buddy is currently the communications dir. of the Ohio Dem Party. I'm thinking of giving him a buzz and finding out where I can sign up to do something. While I'm not a full-fledged True Believer, the time has come to do something.

[Party @ the Moontower]

You missed a few.

 

 

 

 

"No Child Left Behind"

 

 

Thanks! Gotta love Missouri.

[fatheadfred]

You missed a few.

 

 

 

 

"No Child Left Behind"

 

far, far behind

[sweetheart-mine]

Well, I just made my first Obama donation of the campaign.

 

This is a weird election for me. Its no secret that I've been gritting my teeth and waiting out the last 8 years and, from the start, had no intention of voting for another Republican, pretty much regardless of the Dem nominee. As much as I like to think of myself as a political independent, I guess I've been backed firmly into the Democratic camp by, if nothing else, lack of options. Yeah, I went through the "there's no difference between the parties" phase in 2000 when I would have preferred Gore over Bush, and I don't exactly regret voting Nader except for the fact that the consequences of that election have been dreadful.

 

The "no difference between the parties" idea died for me long ago. Not that the Democratic party doesn't leave plenty to be desired, as well, but of all the various factions within the Democratic party, none of them do I find as objectionable as the Dobsonite segment of the GOP that Palin was specifically chosen to appease. Frankly, I find their mix of politics and theology to be a discredit to both, and I want them nowhere near the White House if I can help it. More than anything, their current level on influence in the party is the reason that I'd have a hard time supporting a GOP candidate for anything, even if they managed to put forward a candidate that I like. (which they haven't)

 

I've been mostly a dispassionate observer of the campaign this time around until recently, but Sarah Palin has just raised my angst levels considerably. (not the least of which because this is the first time I thought the GOP actually had a snowball's chance in hell of winning) The level of discourse turned ugly last night and made my stomach churn the way it did in '04 and part of me wants to drown it all out and stick my head in the sand and wait it out until November...the other part of me wants to do something, anything to avoid feeling what I felt when Bush got handed a second term.

 

So, yeah, I just spent money I can't really afford to be spending on a political campaign contribution. My old college buddy is currently the communications dir. of the Ohio Dem Party. I'm thinking of giving him a buzz and finding out where I can sign up to do something. While I'm not a full-fledged True Believer, the time has come to do something.

thanks for writing this. it expresses so well what many independents, including myself, have come to this time around and why. although he isn't "my everything" in a politician (no politician could be!), i might be a bit more enthusiastic about obama than you -- i do like him a lot -- which makes your donation to his campaign and thoughts of working for it all the more telling about what's at stake in this election.

[Hixter]

Wow ... this is worth a bump ...

 

A bump to the dung heap of history, perhaps, where all the 9/11 conspiracy nonsense belongs.

 

Perhaps the most tragic result of the last decade of politics (worldwide, not just in the United States) is that if someone says something frequently enough on the Internet it will be accepted as fact by an astounding number of people if it fits in with their political affiliation or worldview. WTC-7 couldn't have collapsed due to fire, Obama is a Muslim, Iraq was an illegal war, etc. and people insist on backing up their claims with handpicked bits of news, party line talking points and websites with enough bias to float a battleship.

 

I'm at the point where I can't stomach about 90% of Democrats and Republicans because they're so far up their respective party's ass. And I think that 90% figure would apply to the people who post on this message board, too.

[Duck-Billed Catechist]

I'm never sure what an illegal war means, but I think an argument could be made that the Senate should have to declare war for it to be considered legal.

[Good Old Neon]

Well, I just made my first Obama donation of the campaign.

 

This is a weird election for me. Its no secret that I've been gritting my teeth and waiting out the last 8 years and, from the start, had no intention of voting for another Republican, pretty much regardless of the Dem nominee. As much as I like to think of myself as a political independent, I guess I've been backed firmly into the Democratic camp by, if nothing else, lack of options. Yeah, I went through the "there's no difference between the parties" phase in 2000 when I would have preferred Gore over Bush, and I don't exactly regret voting Nader except for the fact that the consequences of that election have been dreadful.

 

The "no difference between the parties" idea died for me long ago. Not that the Democratic party doesn't leave plenty to be desired, as well, but of all the various factions within the Democratic party, none of them do I find as objectionable as the Dobsonite segment of the GOP that Palin was specifically chosen to appease. Frankly, I find their mix of politics and theology to be a discredit to both, and I want them nowhere near the White House if I can help it. More than anything, their current level on influence in the party is the reason that I'd have a hard time supporting a GOP candidate for anything, even if they managed to put forward a candidate that I like. (which they haven't)

 

I've been mostly a dispassionate observer of the campaign this time around until recently, but Sarah Palin has just raised my angst levels considerably. (not the least of which because this is the first time I thought the GOP actually had a snowball's chance in hell of winning) The level of discourse turned ugly last night and made my stomach churn the way it did in '04 and part of me wants to drown it all out and stick my head in the sand and wait it out until November...the other part of me wants to do something, anything to avoid feeling what I felt when Bush got handed a second term.

 

So, yeah, I just spent money I can't really afford to be spending on a political campaign contribution. My old college buddy is currently the communications dir. of the Ohio Dem Party. I'm thinking of giving him a buzz and finding out where I can sign up to do something. While I'm not a full-fledged True Believer, the time has come to do something.

 

Nicely put, you

[kimcatch22]

No, I made it up. Do you know how many of our younger soliders committ suicide, end up homeless, have a lifetime of PTSD?

I'm well aware of the problems and I think it's a national tragedy that veterans don't get the best of everything health-related we have to offer. But it's still not "most" young soldiers who end up that way. I've had at least 10 friends go over to Iraq and Afghanistan, and by your word choice 5+ of them should have had one of the problems you mentioned above.

 

I was asking, honestly, not because I dislike you and want to pick a fight, but because I'm studying that kind of stuff for my Masters thesis and I was curious as to where you got that info from. Thanks for the links.

[sweetheart-mine]

I'm at the point where I can't stomach about 90% of Democrats and Republicans because they're so far up their respective party's ass. And I think that 90% figure would apply to the people who post on this message board, too.

read the post above yours. there isn't much fondness for the political parties on these boards, so your lovely "they're so far up their respective party's ass" is, well, untrue for the most part -- just as reactionary as you probably see many other posts.

[Analogman]

I'm never sure what an illegal war means, but I think an argument could be made that the Senate should have to declare war for it to be considered legal.

 

I am not a war historian - but I think there are some answers here:

 

Korean War

Iraq War

 

The Gulf of Tonkin Resolution was addressed by Lyndon B. Johnson as a joint resolution of the U.S. Congress passed on August 7, 1964 in direct response to a minor naval engagement known as the Gulf of Tonkin Incident. It is of historical significance because it gave U.S. President Lyndon B. Johnson authorization, without a formal declaration of war by Congress, for the use of military force in Southeast Asia. The Johnson administration subsequently cited the resolution as legal authority for its rapid escalation of U.S. military involvement in the Vietnam conflict.

 

The War Powers Act of 1973 (Pub.L. 93-148), also referred to as the War Powers Resolution, is a resolution of the Congress of The United States of America that stated that the President of The United States of America can send armed forces into action abroad only by authorization of Congress or if the United States of America is already under attack or serious threat. The War Powers Act requires that the president notify Congress within 48 hours of committing armed forces to military action and forbids armed forces from remaining for more than 60 days without an authorization of force or a declaration of war.

[Tweedling]

I'm well aware of the problems and I think it's a national tragedy that veterans don't get the best of everything health-related we have to offer. But it's still not "most" young soldiers who end up that way. I've had at least 10 friends go over to Iraq and Afghanistan, and by your word choice 5+ of them should have had one of the problems you mentioned above.

Now I'm not trying to be a smart ass but don't the soldiers and vets have complete access to VA hospitals?

[Party @ the Moontower]

I'm well aware of the problems and I think it's a national tragedy that veterans don't get the best of everything health-related we have to offer. But it's still not "most" young soldiers who end up that way. I've had at least 10 friends go over to Iraq and Afghanistan, and by your word choice 5+ of them should have had one of the problems you mentioned above.

 

I was asking, honestly, not because I dislike you and want to pick a fight, but because I'm studying that kind of stuff for my Masters thesis and I was curious as to where you got that info from. Thanks for the links.

 

Thanks. Good luck on your thesis. I have a family memeber who is homeless, so it's a hot subject for me. In doing research on it, I was astounded by how many young Iraq vets are now homeless. As far as PTSD, it can takes years for that to show up, same with suicide. What I mean't to say, is most of the vets with PSTD that commit suicide are the young kids, not the seasoned vets. In my research I have also found this to be true of the homeless. Those that are older are less likely to recieve and accept the help and support they need, and they are older and mature enough to better process things than say, a 19 year old.

 

It is a sad thing, and a national disgrace. I live in a military town and work with some of the older guys from the military (in massage sessions where they talk a lot about it), they seem to be sheltered from Iraq. Tha't just my experience.

[gogo]

Now I'm not trying to be a smart ass but don't the soldiers and vets have complete access to VA hospitals?

 

But VA care certainly isn't the best we have to offer.

 

"It Is Just Not Walter Reed"

[watch me fall]

I'm just having major deja vu with these all these posts from kwall who was last active here in political threads at VC 3-4 years ago with his same MO, brief one-liner posts aimed at obfuscating (as M Chris accurately described) and frustrating his opponents. Major deja vu. Wonder why he shows up again? Is this what a troll is?

 

I dunno. It's all in the Via Chicago Archives if you want to waste even more of your time on kwall.

 

 

Well that's interesting.