Lost

[ThisIsNowhere]

I missed the last two episodes, I need to catch up.

[Mystik Spiral]

Shouldn't there be a mini-Ben Linus walking around the Dharma Initiative? I would think over the course of 3 years the 815 people would have picked up on a kid named Ben Linus, and Juliette might have clued people into the fact that he is going to gas them all in the future.

 

That is a good point, and I hope the writers manage to rectify it. I was happy to see that they hadn't dismissed/forgotten about the four-toed statue.

[Mystik Spiral]

One thing I really liked from the episode was seeing the statue, which I speculate is Thoth the Atlantean.

 

Nice theory.

[a.miller]

Nice theory.

At one point recently, didn't one of the characters mention a war coming?

[Mystik Spiral]

Widmore told Locke that there was a war coming and if he (Locke) wasn't on the island the wrong side would win.

[jenbobblehead]

Lostpedia says he was born in the early 1960s and let's say he was about 12 when he came to the island, so that would put him arriving there at roughly 1974-1976. Definitely within that period. Good point.

Maybe it was when Ben showed up on the island that the baby problem started.

[Guest Gym Teacher Man]

Maybe it was when Ben showed up on the island that the baby problem started.

 

I was just thinking that last night! After all, his mom died in child birth.

 

I am very intrigued by the comments asking where young Ben is during all this. That's a very valid point, and almost seems like a fuck-up. But I'm certain it can't be. Didn't we at some point see a young Ben, pre-to-early teens confronted by Alpert in the woods. Perhaps been isn't with the DI people around this time, but rather with the Others. His father probably wouldn't have even noticed (or cared) that he wasn't around.

[KevinG]

On Ben at the Dharma camp.

 

Whereas it is likely he is at the camp the same time Sawyer et al, he may not be noticed by them. Ben is a man of mystery and are we sure that any of the group know that Ben was part of the DI? Sawyer, Jin, Miles, and Daniel probably do not. The question is about Juliet. She may not know, who knows what Ben told her. Remember Ben told John at one point that he was born on the island. He could have told Juliet a similar story. Who knows? They have no reason to think that Ben was part of the DI. So why would they think to for him there. Plus the DI is probably 100 so people. They aren't asking people names, so the likelihood of them bumping into a 12 year old kid in the group seems unlikely. Also have you ever known anyone on that show to put two and two together and come up with a logical conclusion?

 

One thing that people forget about the show is that the audience gets to see everything, whereas the characters do not. So they do not have the same knowledge base as the audience.

 

On another note, where was Daniel in the "3 years later" story line. He was the only one of that group that they did not show.

[Moe_Syzlak]

On Ben at the Dharma camp.

 

Whereas it is likely he is at the camp the same time Sawyer et al, he may not be noticed by them. Ben is a man of mystery and are we sure that any of the group know that Ben was part of the DI? Sawyer, Jin, Miles, and Daniel probably do not. The question is about Juliet. She may not know, who knows what Ben told her. Remember Ben told John at one point that he was born on the island. He could have told Juliet a similar story. Who knows? They have no reason to think that Ben was part of the DI. So why would they think to for him there. Plus the DI is probably 100 so people. They aren't asking people names, so the likelihood of them bumping into a 12 year old kid in the group seems unlikely. Also have you ever known anyone on that show to put two and two together and come up with a logical conclusion?

 

One thing that people forget about the show is that the audience gets to see everything, whereas the characters do not. So they do not have the same knowledge base as the audience.

 

On another note, where was Daniel in the "3 years later" story line. He was the only one of that group that they did not show.

I respectfully disagree. They are in a small compound for three years. They would know who is who. Hell, Daniel spotted Charlotte in like five seconds. Ben would still have the name Linus as would his father. If the Linus family is already on the island at this point Sawyer, Juliette, et al know who he is, IMO. If not, the writers fucked up!

[Analogman]

One thing I really liked from the episode was seeing the statue, which I speculate is Thoth the Atlantean.

Horus? Horace?

 

I was trying to figure that out myself.

 

From DarkUFO:

 

This opening scene is -- by far -- what's been buzzed about the most across the Lost community over the past 36 hours or so. Shortly after "LaFleur" ended, reader ML from Greece sent me a link to the Wikipedia entry for Anubis (also known as Inpu), the Egyptian God of mummification and the afterlife. Over the course of time, Anubis "became considered more the gatekeeper and ruler of the underworld, the "Guardian of the veil" (of "death"). Consequently, he was said to protect souls as they journeyed there, and thus be the patron of lost souls."

[TCP]

Ok, so say young Ben has met Sawyer and the gang, does old Ben remember this?

[Guest Gym Teacher Man]

Ok, so say young Ben has met Sawyer and the gang, does old Ben remember this?

 

I think, yes. Just like Desmond had a memory of Daniel meeting him on the island.

[caliber66]

I respectfully disagree. They are in a small compound for three years. They would know who is who. Hell, Daniel spotted Charlotte in like five seconds. Ben would still have the name Linus as would his father. If the Linus family is already on the island at this point Sawyer, Juliette, et al know who he is, IMO. If not, the writers fucked up!

Why does it have to be a fuckup? What difference could Sawyer, et al. make? Daniel has said repeatedly they can't change future events.

[Sweet Papa Crimbo]

Ok, so say young Ben has met Sawyer and the gang, does old Ben remember this?

 

 

This may in part explain Ben's behavior in the second and third seaons with respect to Sawyer, Jack, Kate and Juliet.

 

Ben has a major jones for Juliet becausees Juliet as a dead ringer for Annie (his youthful love). Ben knows that Sawyer and Juliet have a thing. If Sawyer choses Jack over Sawyer...then Ben loses Juliet to Sawyer...but then again Jack loves Kate, proposed to her, but he has a thing with Juliet too...God...this stuff is so confusing. When did this become Melrose Place?

 

I think that Ben may be trying to change his future. Jacob (and or Christian) told John to move the island...Ben moved the island. Ben tried to kill John once and eventually succeeded (with some degree of regret the second time). Ben killed John so John would fill the Christian role on the flight. Ben got the crap kicked out of himself (Killing Penny?) to fill the damaged entity that John was on the first flight.

 

It's like peeling a da$m onion.

 

I always kind of thought this story was going to end up being something akin to John Varlye's Millenium with the losties neded to help others survive/resurrect. With the Gateway to the underworld and protector of lost sould ide fixe that keeps popping up maybe it fits this model. The losties and the 815ers are needed to facilitate the 'resurrection' of the dead...the whispers, the appearance of dead individuals.

 

A lot of people keep showing up on this supposedly impossible to reachi island...

[Mystik Spiral]

Something just occurred to me - why the heck wouldn't Widmore have just flat out told Desmond that Ben had promised to kill Penny? At least he could have been keeping an eye out...

 

Though I'm still holding onto hope that Penny, Desmond & Charlie are all fine n' dandy.

[Sweet Papa Crimbo]

Something just occurred to me - why the heck wouldn't Widmore have just flat out told Desmond that Ben had promised to kill Penny? At least he could have been keeping an eye out...

 

Though I'm still holding onto hope that Penny, Desmond & Charlie are all fine n' dandy.

 

I have a feeling that Widmore knows the future as does Ben...they are seeking a game changer.

 

I am thinking there has already been one game-changing event...when Ben/Rousseau's daughter got killed. Nothing else that had happened had shocked Ben...that did. After that...Ben apparently decided to let the O6 leave without any further effort to stop them and he decided to leave the island himself.

[Moe_Syzlak]

Why does it have to be a fuckup? What difference could Sawyer, et al. make? Daniel has said repeatedly they can't change future events.

To me it would be a fuck up if the timelines for Ben being on the island and Sawyer being part of '70s Dharma and they claim that they never knew or noticed Ben. We have always been led to believe that the DI compound is small enough (and the Linus family used the name Linus) that there should be no way they don't know about each other after three years of living together.

[caliber66]

To me it would be a fuck up if the timelines for Ben being on the island and Sawyer being part of '70s Dharma and they claim that they never knew or noticed Ben. We have always been led to believe that the DI compound is small enough (and the Linus family used the name Linus) that there should be no way they don't know about each other after three years of living together.

Sawyer of 2004 would not know anything about what "LaFleur" knows of the Dharma Initiative. Though it is happening in the past, it is in Sawyer 2004's future.

[Moe_Syzlak]

Sawyer of 2004 would not know anything about what "LaFleur" knows of the Dharma Initiative. Though it is happening in the past, it is in Sawyer 2004's future.

Huh? Sawyer's timeline means he WOULD have memories of 2004 even as he is LaFleur in the '70s. He knew Ben lived in that compound -- as did Juliette -- and he knew Ben's last name was Linus. You don't think that over the course of three years that Sawyer is living as LaFleur (not to mention Juliette) that he would notice a kid running around named Ben Linus? So, IMO, if the timelines we are talking about are accurate (i.e. Ben WAS living on the island with his dad while LaFleur is there), the show either hasn't yet addressed the fact that they DO in fact know who Ben is or it is a real continuity error (again, IMO).

[caliber66]

Again, since Daniel said (repeatedly) that they cannot do anything to change future events, what good would it do to say anything about Ben's future attack on the DI?

 

What should Sawyer et al. do about 12 year-old Ben?

 

edit: I just don't understand what the continuity error is here. Either they know the 1970s Linuses or not, but they can't do anything to change what happens to them later.

[Moe_Syzlak]

Again, since Daniel said (repeatedly) that they cannot do anything to change future events, what good would it do to say anything about Ben's future attack on the DI?

 

What should Sawyer et al. do about 12 year-old Ben?

 

edit: I just don't understand what the continuity error is here. Either they know the 1970s Linuses or not, but they can't do anything to change what happens to them later.

All I'm saying is that they should acknowledge that a 12 year old Ben is running around. They did that with Charlotte immediately. It's a pretty big deal to have them living at the DI at the same time as little Ben don't you think? Regardless if they can DO anything about it. Besides, do you really think that is in keeping with Swayer's personality? "Oh look, it's little Ben Linus! In the future he's responsible for killing everyone here. Oh but wait, Daniel said we can't change anything, so I guess I'll just pretend he isn't here."

[OOO]

Again, since Daniel said (repeatedly) that they cannot do anything to change future events, what good would it do to say anything about Ben's future attack on the DI?

 

Not saying I disagree with you here, but Daniel might not be 100% accurate. I'm just thinking out loud, but Sawyer/Juliet killed 2 Others and saved that Dharma initiative lady. Maybe thats what was going to happen anyway, but it didn't seem like it.

 

As far as the benjamin timeline thing goes, if we don't have exact dates or anything, its possible he was born in 1965 and shows up in 1977, after the most recent episode takes place. Who knows? When I first brought it up I was just saying it occurred to me that he might have been there in those years.

[Mystik Spiral]

And it's always possible that we just haven't seen that interaction yet. Everybody's back to the island now with what, 10 episodes left? They have to save SOMETHING for later...

[Moe_Syzlak]

As far as the benjamin timeline thing goes, if we don't have exact dates or anything, its possible he was born in 1965 and shows up in 1977, after the most recent episode takes place. Who knows? When I first brought it up I was just saying it occurred to me that he might have been there in those years.

Right and that would be fine with me.I was simply responding to KevinG who said that he feels it is entirely within the realm of plausibility for them to live in this compound for three years with a young Ben and not notice him. I disagree with that and if that were what the writers were asking us to swallow, I'd have a hard time with it ... but not the smoke monster and timeshiftimg donkey wheel!

[Mystik Spiral]

As far as the benjamin timeline thing goes, if we don't have exact dates or anything, its possible he was born in 1965 and shows up in 1977, after the most recent episode takes place. Who knows? When I first brought it up I was just saying it occurred to me that he might have been there in those years.

 

I could believe that. He looked about 12 when he and his dad showed up. I was always curious why Horace and Roger were still in touch after all that time, it seemed like Horace had been on the island long enough to establish some clout.