The Official Bob Dylan Thread

[MattZ]

4-2-1

[mjpuczko]

haha. i was really just confused/freaked out by the video.

[TheMaker]

I'll admit it's an ill fitting video for this particular song. If it had no soundtrack at all, I think I'd like it even more.

 

I hope the dude who had mock concern for my girlfriend or wife read this post...

 

And with that, I'm off to promptly forget that this vid was ever made.

[Synthesizer Patel]

yeah i read it. i've already sent a warrant out for his arrest.

 

don't have nightmares kids.

[LouieB]

The video is epically awful, and yes, it DOES seem to depict (but certainly not endorse or defend) behaviours associated with domestic violence. If it's a metaphor, as some claim, then it's fucking lazy and twice as stupid, so why embarrass yourself by proclaiming loudly and proudly that you like it? This is bad art, and I'm probably being generous by allowing that it's anything more than a lousy ad.

This vid has nothing to do with the song, which is what also makes it not so great. Thanks at least for thinking about supporting me on this. I can see how people like this video, but frankly watch it a few more times, it really has little or no point. Stay with your abuser?? Not the message any thinking artist would really make.

 

LouieB

[calvino]

I don't see the point of video at all and my wife is angry with me that I showed her the video. It ruined the song for her. (She may be over reacting, a bit, but to each his/her own). I agree with TheMaker.

This is bad art, and I'm probably being generous by allowing that it's anything more than a lousy ad.

 

Below is from

http://blogs.reuters.com/fanfare/2009/05/1...estic-violence/

 

His Columbia Records label does not know if he has even seen it. The company has carte blanche with his videos, and its main job is

[MattZ]

I thought it was a cool, cartoonish, over-the-top metaphor. That opinion was independent of the music underneath it. I would bet that Dylan hasn't seen it. I agree it has nothing to do with the song. I thought the video was just independently cool. It's really just that simple. I wasn't judging it as a "music video."

 

Maybe we should all just agree to move on? I am fine with that.

[mjpuczko]

it sort of reminds me of the cartoonish violence in tarantino films.

[jc4prez]

I don't see the point of video at all and my wife is angry with me that I showed her the video. It ruined the song for her. (She may be over reacting, a bit, but to each his/her own). I agree with TheMaker.

 

my girlfriend said the same thing.

[LouieB]

I don't see the point of video at all and my wife is angry with me that I showed her the video. It ruined the song for her. (She may be over reacting, a bit, but to each his/her own). I agree with TheMaker.

and me.... ...your wife is NOT overreacting....

 

it sort of reminds me of the cartoonish violence in tarantino films.

I know Tarantino is like some sort of pop culture god, but I find his films sort of stupid. I was thinking this same thing this morning, but since really I am not a big fan of his, my opinion remains the same.

 

my girlfriend said the same thing.

The women know what the deal is.....

 

LouieB

[Sir Stewart]

I thought it was a cool, cartoonish, over-the-top metaphor. That opinion was independent of the music underneath it. I would bet that Dylan hasn't seen it. I agree it has nothing to do with the song. I thought the video was just independently cool. It's really just that simple. I wasn't judging it as a "music video."

 

Maybe we should all just agree to move on? I am fine with that.

I really wish the PM function was working, Matt.

[LouieB]

I really wish the PM function was working, Matt.

I don't think anyone should take this personally. I mean a visual representation of violence is bound to strike different people differently. (All puns intended...) Clearly other people have also taken offense at this vid, despite it's wonderful sleazy production values and ambiguous ending. This starting a conversation about Stockholm Syndrome and domestic violence isn't a bad thing really.

 

LouieB

[MattZ]

I really wish the PM function was working, Matt.

 

I hear you, buddy.

 

This starting a conversation about Stockholm Syndrome and domestic violence isn't a bad thing really.

 

LouieB

 

Lou, I think it is a bad thing. The video has nothing to do with Stockholm Syndrome. And we aren't having a conversation about it. People are saying that the video is offensive. You want to say that the metaphor is stupid or predictable or poorly executed, fine. Let's have a conversation about how cliche'd and stupid it is. Maybe it's bad art like TheMaker says and I have crappy taste. Or we can agree to disagree. But reducing the video to a lament of offensive domestic abuse is just mind-blowing to me and is arguably, offensive. I don't care if you are male or female. That's not what this is. The woman stabs the guy and runs over him with a car. If anything, it empowers the woman. She wins the stupid fight!

 

Argh.

[calvino]

QUOTE (Sir Stewart @ May 15 2009, 10:28 AM) *

I really wish the PM function was working, Matt.

 

 

I hear you, buddy.

 

As Dylan sings, "It's all good"

[Sir Stewart]

As Dylan sings, "It's all good"

I was concerned when I first heard about that title, since it's probably my least favorite saying in the world - but that old irascible iconoclast Bobby did not let me down. Love the song.

[calvino]

I was concerned when I first heard about that title, since it's probably my least favorite saying in the world - but that old irascible iconoclast Bobby did not let me down. Love the song.

 

Agreed. Great track.

[LouieB]

Lou, I think it is a bad thing. The video has nothing to do with Stockholm Syndrome. And we aren't having a conversation about it. People are saying that the video is offensive. You want to say that the metaphor is stupid or predictable or poorly executed, fine. Let's have a conversation about how cliche'd and stupid it is. Maybe it's bad art like TheMaker says and I have crappy taste. Or we can agree to disagree. But reducing the video to a lament of offensive domestic abuse is just mind-blowing to me and is arguably, offensive. I don't care if you are male or female. That's not what this is. The woman stabs the guy and runs over him with a car. If anything, it empowers the woman. She wins the stupid fight!

 

Argh.

Listen I see your point and I understand (somewhat) your frustration, but why would a conversation about whether a movie hits the mark or not be a problem. Also it is NOT offensive to talk about it in real world terms about this clip, which is that a guy threating to kill or beat up a woman, is really about domestic abuse. It is. Is there a point to it; is there a point to this piece of cinema (let's assume it is art for the moment...) showing in graphic terms a very violent encounter??; maybe. But maybe that point is to point out the way individuals react to being controled by violence and how they relate to their tormentor. If we don't talk about that, perhaps we have missed an opportunity. You can relate to this thing viserally as a well done scene that encompases violence or you can be repelled by the misogeny, even though the women seems to have the upper hand.

 

I don't know, I am just running off here I know,but everyone is going to have a different reaction to what is a complex issue, compounded by the fact that it is stuck onto what appears to be a fairly simple love song by a very famous and well loved musician. Were this just a film clip, the argument would be slightly different.

 

LouieB

[MattZ]

Listen I see your point and I understand (somewhat) your frustration, but why would a conversation about whether a movie hits the mark or not be a problem. Also it is NOT offensive to talk about it in real world terms about this clip, which is that a guy threating to kill or beat up a woman, is really about domestic abuse. It is. Is there a point to it; is there a point to this piece of cinema (let's assume it is art for the moment...) showing in graphic terms a very violent encounter??; maybe. But maybe that point is to point out the way individuals react to being controled by violence and how they relate to their tormentor. If we don't talk about that, perhaps we have missed an opportunity. You can relate to this thing viserally as a well done scene that encompases violence or you can be repelled by the misogeny, even though the women seems to have the upper hand.

 

See bold above. That's exactly what I want(ed) to do. My frustration was that we weren't discussing whether the movie hits the mark. It seemed as if you, and others, were dismissing the video out of hand as offensive and NOT having a conversation about it. Dimissing it was offensive. I don't have any problem talking about the clip in real world terms, or anyone being repelled by the violence.

 

Someone get Beltmann in here.

[Sir Stewart]

Someone get Beltmann in here.

This could go for every thread.

[isadorah]

just go the album today and listening now. much better than Modern Times. I'm diggin' it. We'll see what happens when it is played on non-crappy computer speakers.

[LouieB]

Yup get Beltman in here. Art can be offensive that's for sure. Some art is misogynist and some of it is crap.

 

In this case the clip itself is very artfully done, but offensive none the less. I suppose you can interpret a woman being beat up and nearly killed (I assume the guy is going to inject her with drugs or something and has already beaten her up pretty good and continues to do so on screen), then she turns the table on him (pun intended) and runs out and eventually hits him with a car, meaning she is NOW undercontrol of the situation, BUT despite all that violence and apparent hate she has second thoughts and comes back and kisses him (a symbol of love or goodbye or whatever) and then we are left wondering if she is staying, going, or going to run him over for good.

 

Okay so there is plenty of ambiguity here which I suppose makes this good art, but somehow it feels sort of wretched. Most women (at least the ones I know and a certain percentage of guys too...) would not interpret her returning to him and kissing him as a positive thing. If some of us disregarded this clip out of hand, it is because our reaction was pretty negative on viewing this the first time. Do most of us care to view it numerous times? Not so sure....more to the point is that how Bob Dylan views his song? Does this illustrate his intent for the song? I doubt Bob will weigh in on it here.

 

(Cue up the movies "In the Realm of the Senses" or "Last Tango in Paris" I guess.)

 

LouieB

[froggie]

for people interested in personal goss, here's a story about bob's kids and what they're doing these days. well, we all know what Jakob's up to!

 

 

http://folkfanlcb89.tripod.com/children.html

[Moss]

Lou, I think it is a bad thing. The video has nothing to do with Stockholm Syndrome. And we aren't having a conversation about it. People are saying that the video is offensive. You want to say that the metaphor is stupid or predictable or poorly executed, fine. Let's have a conversation about how cliche'd and stupid it is. Maybe it's bad art like TheMaker says and I have crappy taste. Or we can agree to disagree. But reducing the video to a lament of offensive domestic abuse is just mind-blowing to me and is arguably, offensive. I don't care if you are male or female. That's not what this is. The woman stabs the guy and runs over him with a car. If anything, it empowers the woman. She wins the stupid fight!

 

Argh.

 

I thought the over the top nature was funny. I have to agree with you, she seemed to come out on top. It seems like she could have kicked his ass through the entire video and people would still be saying she is the "Victim" of the evil boyfriends abuse.

[LouieB]

I thought the over the top nature was funny. I have to agree with you, she seemed to come out on top. It seems like she could have kicked his ass through the entire video and people would still be saying she is the "Victim" of the evil boyfriends abuse.

Yea this vid is a laugh a minute....I see that....domestic violence and the victim (no matter which gender it is) returning to their abuser is hysterical.

 

LouieB

[Moss]

Yea this vid is a laugh a minute....I see that....domestic violence and the victim (no matter which gender it is) returning to their abuser is hysterical.

 

LouieB

 

I figured you would say that and I can see your side as well. I guess the way I look at it is it's not advocating or excusing domestic violence in any way (that I can tell), and like any good art, it stirs people up. I don't enjoy watching people beat each other up but it's like the fight scenes in Kill Bill or something. Over the top. You don't get stabbed and hit with a frying pan in the face and get run over by a car and keep running around like the terminator. And she hit him first.