The Official Bob Dylan Thread

[LouieB]

I figured you would say that and I can see your side as well. I guess the way I look at it is it's not advocating or excusing domestic violence in any way (that I can tell), and like any good art, it stirs people up. I don't enjoy watching people beat each other up but it's like the fight scenes in Kill Bill or something. Over the top. You don't get stabbed and hit with a frying pan in the face and get run over by a car and keep running around like the terminator. And she hit him first.

Believe it or not I have spent alot of time this weekend thinking about this vid (although not yet re-viewing it) and I understand all about comic book violence. I saw Star Trek last night, which is a fairly violent movie and also had to sit through endless pre-views of all the post apocolyptic movies coming out in the near future (and man there are ALOT) and it isn't the violence that is upsetting (although it should be), but it is the realism that is upsetting and the intent. Domestic violence is an all too real event to be lightly portrayed as a game. There was a really moving story on front page of the Trib about a mother who had an order of protection out against her ex-husband and the guy was able to get some visitation with their two young boys and he ended up murdering them and committing suicide. The line between reality and what is portrayed in "art" is just sometimes a bit to close. Shooting baddies out in space (or in a Terminator movie, etc.) is clearly not real. A situation where a woman is constantly defending herself against an abusive partner (even if she fights back)and then returns to him is all too real. (We keep having Drew Peterson paraded in the media here in Chicago sort of endlessly also...) Had the woman in this vid run over the guy and THEN took off forever, well it would have been worth the time, but turning back and kissing him?? Yuck.

 

LouieB

[MattZ]

The line between reality and what is portrayed in "art" is just sometimes a bit to close. Shooting baddies out in space (or in a Terminator movie, etc.) is clearly not real. A situation where a woman is constantly defending herself against an abusive partner (even if she fights back)and then returns to him is all too real. (We keep having Drew Peterson paraded in the media here in Chicago sort of endlessly also...) Had the woman in this vid run over the guy and THEN took off forever, well it would have been worth the time, but turning back and kissing him?? Yuck.

 

Lou, put your interpretation of the video aside for a moment. Can you relate to the metaphor that I am talking about? That we are all in relationships with people we love? And that invariably, those people are the ones that have to deal with us when we come home in a foul mood from a bad day at work? They don't get the benefit of our cocktail party gladhanding smiles. We grin and bear it when someone bumps into us on the train. We look the other way when someone obliviously blows cigarette smoke in our face. We put our head down and work harder when our boss yells at us. And then we go home to the ones we love, and we sulk in a corner. Or we say hurtful things to them because we are hurting inside. We do all these things to the people we love best. THAT'S what this video is about (I think).

 

The video would NOT have been worth the time if the woman had "run over the guy and THEN took off forever," as you say. Because then the video would have been about domestic abuse!

[Bula Matari]

Your perception of art is colored by what you bring to the table.

 

She's a jar

With a heavy lid

My pop quiz kid

A sleepy kisser

A pretty war

With feelings hid

She begs me not to miss her

 

She says forever

To light a fuse

We could use

A handful of wheel

And a day off

And a bruised road

However, you might feel

Tonight is real

 

When I forget how to talk, I sing

Won't you please

Bring that flash to shine

And turn my eyes red

Unless they close

When you click

And my face gets sick

Stuck, like a question unposed

 

Just climb aboard

The tracks of a train's arm

In my fragile family tree

And watch me floating inches above

The people underneath

 

Please beware the quiet front yard

I warned you

Before there were water skies

I warned you not to drive

Dry your eyes, you poor devil

 

Are there really ones like these?

The ones I dream

Float like leaves

And freeze to spread skeleton wings

I passed through before I knew you

 

I believe it's just because

Daddy's payday is not enough

Oh I believe it's all because

Daddy's payday is not enough

 

Just climb aboard

The tracks of a train's arm

In my fragile family tree

 

And watch me floating inches above

The people underneath

 

She's a jar

With a heavy lid

My pop quiz kid

A sleepy kisser

A pretty war

With feelings hid

 

You know she begs me

Not to hit her

[Sir Stewart]

Any discussion of She's A Jar always reminds of what Jeff said about it once - something like "maybe he's never hit her?"

[jc4prez]

The video would NOT have been worth the time if the woman had "run over the guy and THEN took off forever," as you say. Because then the video would have been about domestic abuse!

 

 

Many women go back to their abusers and claim the abuser loves them.

[Sir Stewart]

The video depicts a kidnapper and his victim. Not a couple in an abusive relationship. The ending is a comment on the choices we make.

[Bula Matari]

Any discussion of She's A Jar always reminds of what Jeff said about it once - something like "maybe he's never hit her?"

 

That's why I personally give artists as much leeway as possible in interpreting their art.

 

I don't imagine Dylan had much, if anything, to do with the director's vision in this video. It's not Dylan's art; it is the director's.

[Synthesizer Patel]

I feel sorry for the Car - it didn't ask to get caught up in all this violence. I think the Car represents the child in this relationship, actually - or the breaking up of the Beatles - one or the other. Many Cars are in abusive relationships too - their owners get drunk and crash them all the time. Who's thinking about the Cars, people!

[imsjry]

I don't imagine Dylan had much, if anything, to do with the director's vision in this video.

 

I doubt Dylan's even seen it, not less had anything to do with the content. I can't believe the amount of comments this has created. If this video wasn't a Dylan track, would anyone have even blinked?

[Sir Stewart]

I doubt Dylan's even seen it, not less had anything to do with the content. I can't believe the amount of comments this has created. If this video wasn't a Dylan track, would anyone have even blinked?

Well that's a pretty open-ended statement - whose video would it have to be for there to be no reaction?

[Sir Stewart]

Just noticed that Bob performed 'Something' at his May 1st Liverpool gig. Pretty cool.

[imsjry]

Well that's a pretty open-ended statement - whose video would it have to be for there to be no reaction?

 

I guess my point was that the video is no more violent then anything else in theaters or on TV but because it's Bob Dylan ,it is somehow shocking.

[LouieB]

Lou, put your interpretation of the video aside for a moment. Can you relate to the metaphor that I am talking about? That we are all in relationships with people we love? And that invariably, those people are the ones that have to deal with us when we come home in a foul mood from a bad day at work? They don't get the benefit of our cocktail party gladhanding smiles. We grin and bear it when someone bumps into us on the train. We look the other way when someone obliviously blows cigarette smoke in our face. We put our head down and work harder when our boss yells at us. And then we go home to the ones we love, and we sulk in a corner. Or we say hurtful things to them because we are hurting inside. We do all these things to the people we love best. THAT'S what this video is about (I think).

 

The video would NOT have been worth the time if the woman had "run over the guy and THEN took off forever," as you say. Because then the video would have been about domestic abuse!

Actually a vid of a woman being abused and running the guy over and splitting WOULD be worth something; it would show some real empowerment. I understand metaphor. She's a Jar is metaphorical (or some other device) since the person in the song is dreaming about killing someone, not actually killing them, and the guy in this video is sure looking like he is going to kill the woman or at least incapacitate her so he can have his way with her. Okay so I am not being "sensative" to the metaphor embedded in this video since it is not a documentary it is a fictional peice. But that doesn't keep me from being offended by this.

 

Does my offense have to do with it being Bob Dylan? Maybe. What if Wilco released this with She's a Jar running underneath? More than a few female fans might (strangely no females are talking about this...) be offended by it too. I do understand your point, but on something we might just have to agree to disagree. That a very realistic portrayal of a couple slugging it out in what is a fairly violent encounter and then the woman going back and kissing the man, isn't totally symbolic. I did mention two movies that DO involve some mutually agreed upon abuse (there are others) that many of us would consider art and maybe metaphor. And yea, maybe I am being too literal and not going with what could be interpreted as a funny or metaphoric vid, and okay I guess I need to watch it again and allow it too sink in on that basis. Lots of art involves irritation, this is personal violence; again a fairly different thing. Any women out there reading this who have a reaction? Please identify your gender if you would.

 

Well that's a pretty open-ended statement - whose video would it have to be for there to be no reaction?

 

Some horrendous death metal band that none of us care about.

I guess my point was that the video is no more violent then anything else in theaters or on TV but because it's Bob Dylan ,it is somehow shocking.

Right....read my previous comments. I am not opposed to violence in movies per se. Cartoon violence, though repugnant in some cases, is cleary identified as not real. Real violence portrayed in movies can be very effective and necessary (if you have never seen the movie Bloody Sunday, there is some real violence that is absolutely incredible....). Am I over reacting to THIS violence, maybe. Should I go back and rewatch this to become more immune to it and get hip to the metaphoric meaning, maybe. Was it fairly shocking on first viewing. Yes it was.

 

edit- I should also say I really really dislike slasher movies, particularly ones that victimize women. Are they real? No! Do I still find them offensive and pretty much unwatchable? Yes I do. Many people enjoy slasher movies though.

 

LouieB

[Synthesizer Patel]

edit- I should also say I really really dislike slasher movies, particularly ones that victimize women. Are they real? No! Do I still find them offensive and pretty much unwatchable? Yes I do. Many people enjoy slasher movies though.

 

LouieB

 

proper slasher movies (ie. the good ones) are actually moral tales, with very standard sets of rules - like fairytales in that sense. often the woman wins in the end, and it is the promiscuous that die.

[MattZ]

Just noticed that Bob performed 'Something' at his May 1st Liverpool gig. Pretty cool.

 

Awesome.

I know I have said it here before, but I saw Dylan do it as an encore at MSG soon after George passed away. One of the highlights of my many concert experiences.

 

I miss George.

[Moss]

Just noticed that Bob performed 'Something' at his May 1st Liverpool gig. Pretty cool.

 

I would love to hear that gravelly voice singing that song, think I will see if I can find it. George pretty much worshiped Dylan from everything I have read.

[mjpuczko]

wow, he played it again? i knew he had played it only once before, like mattz said, after george passed

[MattZ]

wow, he played it again? i knew he had played it only once before, like mattz said, after george passed

 

When in Rome...

[Sir Stewart]

What if Wilco released this with She's a Jar running underneath? More than a few female fans might (strangely no females are talking about this...) be offended by it too.

Lou, we're in a Bob Dylan thread.

[Shakespeare In The Alley]

I would love to hear that gravelly voice singing that song, think I will see if I can find it. George pretty much worshiped Dylan from everything I have read.

It's a very good cover. Dylan sings it beautifully. And I mean that with no sarcasm at all.

[froggie]

When in Rome...

 

Liverpool actually....

 

http://www.boblinks.com/050109s.html

 

 

here's a crappy clip of it.... not as good as the 2002 version

 

[Oil Can Boyd]

This is turning into the multi-purpose Dylan thread but I thought this was interesting: Dylan "poem" on sale was actually Hank Snow song.

[mjpuczko]

This is turning into the multi-purpose Dylan thread but I thought this was interesting: Dylan "poem" on sale was actually Hank Snow song.

 

strange, a 16/17 y/o kid may have borrowed something. the cynics will probably say: 'see, he's been stealing ideas since the beginning'

 

i can't believe this is news. 90% of his songs in the beginning were 'borrowed' ideas anyway.

[LouieB]

He was a kid fer heaven sake....

 

At least he dug Hank Snow!!

 

LouieB

[Analogman]

Link

 

He's lived his life on the road and, at 68, has no desire to get off it - Bob Dylan, intense as ever, talks music, morality and the men who've shaped his vision of America.