The Official Bob Dylan Thread

[MattZ]

thanks for posting the article, A-Man.

 

I was particularly interested in Dylan's reference to the fact that his band is doing something today that no other bands do, playing rhythms that no other bands can play. And he referenced math, again. Like he does in that chapter in Chronicles. I didn't understand it then. Or now. I know that music theory has elements of math in it, but does anyone know what he is talking about? Is he just messing with us? I should go back and re-read that section in Chronicles.

 

EDIT: here is the passage I was referencing:

 

Dylan's principal frustration, however, is that he feels misunderstood as an artist: "Popular music has no, whatever you call them, critics, that understand popular music in all of its dynamic fundamentalism. The consensus on me is that I'm a songwriter. And that I was influenced by Woody Guthrie and sang protest songs. Then rock'n'roll songs. Then religious songs for a period of time. But it's a stereotype. A media creation. Which is impossible to avoid if you're any type of public figure at all." Where critics think he's deconstructing old songs, he instead sees himself as an old-time musical arranger. "My band plays a different type of music than anybody else plays," Dylan says. "We play distinctive rhythms that no other band can play. There are so many of my songs that have been rearranged at this point that I've lost track of them myself. We do keep the structures intact to some degree. But the dynamics of the song itself might change from one given night to another because the mathematical process we use allows that. As far as I know, no one else out there plays like this. Today, yesterday and probably tomorrow. I don't think you'll hear what I do ever again. It took a while to find this thing. The guy that I always miss, and I think he'd still be around if he stayed with me, actually, was Mike Broomfield," Dylan says of his collaborator on Highway 61 Revisited. "He could just flat-out play. He had so much soul. And he knew all the styles, and could play them so incredibly well. "

[Analogman]

I should have said I found that by way of Expecting Rain, but I suppose most people who participate in these Dylan threads know about that site.

[isadorah]

Dylan's principal frustration, however, is that he feels misunderstood as an artist: "Popular music has no, whatever you call them, critics, that understand popular music in all of its dynamic fundamentalism. The consensus on me is that I'm a songwriter. And that I was influenced by Woody Guthrie and sang protest songs. Then rock'n'roll songs. Then religious songs for a period of time. But it's a stereotype. A media creation. Which is impossible to avoid if you're any type of public figure at all." Where critics think he's deconstructing old songs, he instead sees himself as an old-time musical arranger. "My band plays a different type of music than anybody else plays," Dylan says. "We play distinctive rhythms that no other band can play. There are so many of my songs that have been rearranged at this point that I've lost track of them myself. We do keep the structures intact to some degree. But the dynamics of the song itself might change from one given night to another because the mathematical process we use allows that. As far as I know, no one else out there plays like this. Today, yesterday and probably tomorrow. I don't think you'll hear what I do ever again. It took a while to find this thing. The guy that I always miss, and I think he'd still be around if he stayed with me, actually, was Mike Broomfield," Dylan says of his collaborator on Highway 61 Revisited. "He could just flat-out play. He had so much soul. And he knew all the styles, and could play them so incredibly well. "

 

This is all a guess. I've heard that folks really good at math make great musicians and great musicians can easily become great mathematicians (and computer programmers). having seen dylan in concert almost 20 times (I have lost track at this point), he rarely plays a song the same way twice. Half the time I have to wait for the lyrics to figure out what in the world it is. I wonder if what they are doing by mathematically deconstructing/reconstructing the music is looking at what was originally written and then shifting the counts, adjusting the key, and all together affecting the rhythm and nature of the song. the math side of music is that every song has a count structure, every note holds a certain number of beats, and there is a mathematical formula in chord structure (how many steps between the notes in a cord determines what chord you are playing, change one step and you have a whole different sound. maybe they don't look at it musically, but are instead making the adjustments to how they play the songs strictly by the numbers behind the music and not the sound of the music itself. TOTALLY A GUESS!!!

[mjpuczko]

strangely, that makes sense to me

[MattZ]

This is all a guess. I've heard that folks really good at math make great musicians and great musicians can easily become great mathematicians (and computer programmers). having seen dylan in concert almost 20 times (I have lost track at this point), he rarely plays a song the same way twice. Half the time I have to wait for the lyrics to figure out what in the world it is. I wonder if what they are doing by mathematically deconstructing/reconstructing the music is looking at what was originally written and then shifting the counts, adjusting the key, and all together affecting the rhythm and nature of the song. the math side of music is that every song has a count structure, every note holds a certain number of beats, and there is a mathematical formula in chord structure (how many steps between the notes in a cord determines what chord you are playing, change one step and you have a whole different sound. maybe they don't look at it musically, but are instead making the adjustments to how they play the songs strictly by the numbers behind the music and not the sound of the music itself. TOTALLY A GUESS!!!

 

Yeah I get all that, but Dylan can't possibly think that he is the only guy doing what you say above. Or that his band is the only band capable of doing it (which is what he says). Which makes me think that he is either (1) talking about something else entirely, (2) intentionally messing with us, or (3) insane. It could be all three of course.

 

He actually says: We play distinctive rhythms that no other band can play.

[isadorah]

Yeah I get all that, but Dylan can't possibly think that he is the only guy doing what you say above. Or that his band is the only band capable of doing it (which is what he says). Which makes me think that he is either (1) talking about something else entirely, (2) intentionally messing with us, or (3) insane. It could be all three of course.

 

He actually says: We play distinctive rhythms that no other band can play.

 

 

I think he just thinks he plays stuff no one else can play; that part is probably ego coming through. then again dylan is notorious for messing with us, so you might be on to something...

[Basil II]

This is all a guess. I've heard that folks really good at math make great musicians and great musicians can easily become great mathematicians (and computer programmers). having seen dylan in concert almost 20 times (I have lost track at this point), he rarely plays a song the same way twice. Half the time I have to wait for the lyrics to figure out what in the world it is. I wonder if what they are doing by mathematically deconstructing/reconstructing the music is looking at what was originally written and then shifting the counts, adjusting the key, and all together affecting the rhythm and nature of the song. the math side of music is that every song has a count structure, every note holds a certain number of beats, and there is a mathematical formula in chord structure (how many steps between the notes in a cord determines what chord you are playing, change one step and you have a whole different sound. maybe they don't look at it musically, but are instead making the adjustments to how they play the songs strictly by the numbers behind the music and not the sound of the music itself. TOTALLY A GUESS!!!

 

 

 

You could be describing Jay Bennett hear as well. Kot's book describes Jay's approach to piano the frst time as mathematical.......fascinating .....

 

-robert

[Moss]

I have heard him mention this math/rhythm thing a few times, most recently in rolling stone but as someone mentioned , Chronicles. He seems to refer to some 3 note or triplet patter and it sounds like a very specific method. He seems very free with the information and is not too secretive about it but then again nobody seems to understand what he is talking about. He even said he plays keyboards becaue he can't find a keyboard player that can do it correctly. I wish I knew what he meant but in listening to the recent records I'm not hearing anything other than pretty standard blues patterns.

 

 

[Sir Stewart]

He seems very free with the information and is not too secretive about it but then again nobody seems to understand what he is talking about.

 

I bet this would make ol' Bobby grin.

[MattZ]

I never realized he said that about his keyboard playing, but if he said that, he has to just be messing with us. Right?

 

Ummm, right?

 

Maybe I should start a poll.

[isadorah]

I never realized he said that about his keyboard playing, but if he said that, he has to just be messing with us. Right?

 

Ummm, right?

 

Maybe I should start a poll.

 

he's gotta be messing with us. he barely plays it when he's on stage. i always thought he played keyboard because the arthritis in his hands keeps him from playing guitar and he's too uncomfortable up there without being attached to an instrument. he's totally messing with us.

[MattZ]

It's just so incredibly bizarre that Dylan has had this wonderful and prolific period of new songs, and touring, and he credits it directly to some bizarre mathematical thing that he has figured out and only he and his band are capable of understanding.

 

He basically says as much in Chronicles -- that he was sort of drifting aimlessly until he had this epiphany.

 

And now, he is the only keyboard player capable of playing it? It's all too much. I love this guy. No one else like him, thats fo' sho'.

[Shakespeare In The Alley]

I love that, in interviews, he's still being that smart-ass kid from the 60's where every answer is this elaborate lie, basically, and the interviewer is clueless.

 

His tongue is firmly in cheek, even nowadays, but the media takes him seriously, even though every interview with the guy is proof that his answers are not meant to be taken seriously.

 

And it's brilliant, because now the media articles seem to paint this picture of Dylan "opening up" for interviews, when in reality, he's as mysterious as ever.

 

I love Dylan so much, for these reasons and more.

[Analogman]

Maybe it's part of being a Swede.

[Sir Stewart]

I'm not so sure he's fucking around.

From the 2001 RS interview.

But something did seem to turn around for you in the early 1990s. You've said as much yourself. You've spoken about some epiphany that changed your purpose and commitment

[MattZ]

I'm not so sure he's fucking around.

From the 2001 RS interview.

 

Oh I didn't mean to suggest that he's fucking around about the music itself. I am sure he had the epiphany that you bolded above. But he can't possibly think that he is the only keyboard player capable of playing these songs. Or that his band is the only band capable of these rhythms. Can he?

[mjpuczko]

this is precisely why i love bob dylan. i need to read chronicles again.

[Sir Stewart]

 

Oh I didn't mean to suggest that he's fucking around about the music itself. I am sure he had the epiphany that you bolded above. But he can't possibly think that he is the only keyboard player capable of playing these songs. Or that his band is the only band capable of these rhythms. Can he?

 

I don't know.

 

[MattZ]

Since this has become the default Dylan Appreciation Thread, I am going put this here:

 

God Knows from disc two of Tell Tale Signs has been blowing my mind into tiny pieces for the last three days. I cannot get enough.

 

(Huck's Tune, too)

[mjpuczko]

i am obsessed w/ ring them bells from disc 2 (i believe it's from toad's place or something like that). the build up in the middle/middle-end is just stunning.

[MattZ]

i am obsessed w/ ring them bells from disc 2 (i believe it's from toad's place or something like that). the build up in the middle/middle-end is just stunning.

 

I hear ya, bud. I can't get over how wonderful this collection is. The more I listen, the more I discover. I think Ring them bells is from Supper Club, which is bittersweet for me since (1) that show was in NYC, and I wasn't there, and (2) the venue doesn't exist anymore.

 

I don't think I've ever experienced something quite like this before -- I had no clue how stunning a song like Born in Time or God Knows was until TTS came out. Under the Red Sky did everything it could to hide them from me.

[mjpuczko]

ah, yes. supperclub. i couldn't remember if it was that or toad's.

 

i've always loved born in time. i had some random dylan mixes years ago that had that song on it & fell in love right away.

[Moss]

Since this has become the default Dylan Appreciation Thread, I am going put this here:

 

God Knows from disc two of Tell Tale Signs has been blowing my mind into tiny pieces for the last three days. I cannot get enough.

 

(Huck's Tune, too)

 

I'm with you. Tell Tale Signs is just flat out amazing. I love Oh Mercy but some of the stuff on here makes me wonder if we got the wrong version of it.

 

His cover of 32-20 blues just killed me as well.

[Moss]

I just read that Bob Dylan showed up on a tour of Lennon's childhood home in Liverpool. I thought that was interesting. How surreal to be part of that tour group.

[Shakespeare In The Alley]

I just read that Bob Dylan showed up on a tour of Lennon's childhood home in Liverpool. I thought that was interesting. How surreal to be part of that tour group.

Apparently no one from the tour group recognized Dylan.