Sweet Papa Crimbo Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 Things have changed SO much in the last 20 years. Allowing things to gain momentum organically seems to work.Watched the Movie PHILADELPHIA last night. What seemed so revolutionary now seems righteous. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sweet Papa Crimbo Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 ExactlyThose of us in our 50's and older have seen some pretty dramatic changes in race relations and sexual preference toleration in our lifetimes.Extraordinary times. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Heartbreak Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 For anyone who wants to know what it means to be progressive, this would be it.Now if only we could get more conservative folks interested in conservation... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sweet Papa Crimbo Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 For anyone who wants to know what it means to be progressive, this would be it.Now if only we could get more conservative folks interested in conservation... I've always wondered by my loudly born again Christian friends aren't more interested in the Saving of out planet.I'm guessing the gobbledy gook about the rapture has them thinking they won't have to face the consequences for raping Mother Earth.And you would never guess that the National Park System was created by the greatest Republican President (Teddy Roosevelt) if you listen to the Republican (and let's be honest the Democrat) powers that be. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dagwave Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 40 Years? Dang, at this point the thread title is inappropriate! (but i'm not offended)(not that it matters)(' cause love is love when it comes to consenting adults) "what's so funny about peace, love, (the environment) and understanding?" Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Heartbreak Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 All the Roosevelts are pinkoes. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
PopTodd Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 "What people do with their private parts is their private business"-Paul Newman Couldn't agree more. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tweedling Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 Man looking through this thread, there are a lot of people I have not seen around these part in a long time. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The Inside of Outside Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 I am sitting at a state department of ed conference in Maine, next to a colleague who is planning her wedding to her longtime partner. As she and I talk about her wedding plans, I have noted this morning, as we have discussed it, that her marriage will have absolutely no impact on mine. I am glad I live in Maine, and that she can marry the love of her life. I understand that not everyone agrees with this. On a related note, recent polls show a nationwide shift from 58% opposed to same-sex marriage seven years ago to 58% supporting it this year. The big reason is the young adults, turning 18 by the boatloads every day, support it in great numbers, as the less-supportive older population passes. Interestingly, the data was broken down on PBS's Newshour last week, and older Americans are shifting their attitudes toward same-sex marriage as well. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Shakespeare In The Alley Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 its amazing how quickly the tide is turning on this. its beautiful to see. full marriage equality is an inevitability at this point, which seemed farfetched even a few years ago. im only 23 but the fact that i can already look back and see such significant social change is pretty fucking cool. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KevinG Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 Just wondering is there anyone here on this board that is against marriage equality? If so why? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bleedorange Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 The strangest thing to me about homophobia is how the basis for all the ignorance and hatred stems from the belief that someone's sexuality is a choice. As if these same people at some point in their own lives "decided" to be straight rather than gay. It's innate. Of course, maybe it isn't so strange after all. The inability to grasp that something that is innate can be different in other people. Anyway, it's frustrating. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kidsmoke Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 As if anyone would choose all the hardship that (currently at least) goes with being gay! I don't believe a person chooses their sexual orientation any more than they choose their eye color. It's so past time everyone stepped back and just let others be who they are. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Winston Legthigh Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 As if anyone would choose all the hardship that (currently at least) goes with being gay! Well, the Devil tricks them, duh. But when they find out they've been tricked, they just stay gay because it's not worth the bother. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MrRain422 Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 Even if being gay was a choice, that wouldn't make it morally wrong. Of course being gay is not a choice, and I understand the necessity and desire to point it out to people who oppose gay rights, however I think that even if it were a choice, it would be a completely acceptable one. Spending too much time and effort hammering home the point that it is not a choice concedes too much because to those who oppose gay rights and marriage equality because it implies that making a choice to be gay would be wrong. The fact that homosexuality is innate is immaterial to the fact that people should be allowed to make a life (or have a meaningless fling) with whoever they want, provided that other person is a consenting adult. Choice or not, it's no one else's business. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Shakespeare In The Alley Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 As if anyone would choose all the hardship that (currently at least) goes with being gay! I don't believe a person chooses their sexual orientation any more than they choose their eye color. It's so past time everyone stepped back and just let others be who they are.this is the most baffling part of it for me. the idea that someone would choose to be gay knowing all the shit they'll have to deal with from small minded jackasses is laughable. but mr rain is spot on, even if it is a choice it doesnt fucking matter. anyway it is past time to let this stuff go and let other issues decide national elections. i know i'll never vote for anyone that doesnt support marriage equality, and im not alone in feeling that way. i dont understand how so many major political players (i dont think i need to name a party here) dont realize that opposing marriage equality is a losing battle and fighting it so strongly is doing more harm to their party than good. theres standing up for your beliefs and then theres self-sabotaging any chance at political success in the near future. not that im complaining, mind you, just that i dont get how million dollar political machines dont see the changing tides on this one. let it go. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kidsmoke Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 Totally agree, MrRain & Shakespeare. It has always seemed to me that issues like this are mostly hystrionics pumped up to avoid society dealing with the larger, more serious issues...fiddling while Rome burns. For fucks sake, let's leave the gays alone and focus on figuring out our political budget mess, or what we are going to do to rescue our ruined seas or begin to deal with global warming! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
uncool2pillow Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 The most obvious retort to the whole gay is a choice issue is, "When did you choose to be heterosexual?" As though one could just will this sort of attraction... I actually think this explains a lot of the rampant homophobia, though. Think about the Larry Craig example. This guy probably truly believed he chose heterosexuality, but couldn't (if allegations are true) resist those other urges. 5 or 10 years ago, part of me believed that gays should be happy with "civil unions" with complete equality to marriage besides the name. That way of thinking now seems so obsolete. Hearts are changing quickly on this issue. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tinnitus photography Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 The strangest thing to me about homophobia is how the basis for all the ignorance and hatred stems from the belief that someone's sexuality is a choice. As if these same people at some point in their own lives "decided" to be straight rather than gay. It's innate. Of course, maybe it isn't so strange after all. The inability to grasp that something that is innate can be different in other people. Anyway, it's frustrating. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
LouieB Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 Just wondering is there anyone here on this board that is against marriage equality? If so why?I was going to ask the same thing. Come on all you right wingers, time to come out of the closet. LouieB Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KevinG Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 I was going to ask the same thing. Come on all you right wingers, time to come out of the closet. LouieB I didn't want my question to be politically charged in nature, it was an honest question, why is anyone against marriage equality. From my reading of this board, I am hard pressed to find anyone here who does not support marriage equality, even from those people who some may consider "right wing." The only post really in this thread was from justme, but he went into a self imposed exile or something. His reasonings were not really made clear. I find it interesting how even though many who identify with the GOP now support marriage equality. It is also interesting how far out of touch law makers of both parties are as well (PBO only came out in support of marriage equality a few months back.) It is good to see that this has moved beyond the tiresome left right debate and something that a majority of us can agree upon. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Heartbreak Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 I think the opposition to it is, as a general rule, religious based. "It is an abomination, the Bible says so, end of story. God made Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve."It's pretty hard to make a logical argument against it, just as it is hard to argue effectively that one can prove (or disprove, for that matter) the existence of God. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ripthisjoint908 Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 I think the opposition to it is, as a general rule, religious based. "It is an abomination, the Bible says so, end of story. God made Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve."It's pretty hard to make a logical argument against it, just as it is hard to argue effectively that one can prove (or disprove, for that matter) the existence of God.You're absolutely correct. Religion is the only thing that fights the other side of the battle. Which is a tragedy. Aren't we supposed to be moving on from that? Not to offend any religious people on the board, but there is more hate and confusion and struggle coming from your beliefs, than the "unconditional love" that is mentioned in the Bible. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
uncool2pillow Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 As a religious person, I am not offended. The loudest voices of Christianity are not those of love and compassion for the outcasts. I am fairly sure that if the Jesus portrayed in the Gospels was alive today he would be befriending gays. I'm also somewhat confident he wouldn't take issue with loving, committed gay couples. Also, if i am wrong, then it's God's job to sort that out, not mine. I hope he is as forgiving as the Gospels portray because I know I require his grace as much as, if not more than, many gay people I know. So, as you can tell, I am a political conservative (at least fiscally) and a religious liberal. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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