Indiana show canceled!

[tinnitus photography]

i don't think it is, but you never know.

[ditty]

I said it before and I'll say it again - Wilco cancelling the show because of this law should not come as a surprise to their fans if they've paid any attention at all to what the band does off the stage. They have a long history of supporting social causes and even lay them all out on their website. I'd be bummed if I had tickets, but I fully support and understand their decision - I'm sure it was a really tough one for them to make. 

 

This honestly says more about you and your priorities than it does about anything else

Since you have gone here a few times, please enlighten me where I can connect generosity to the following - cancer assistance, Doctors Without Borders, food, shelter, home assistance, kids educations, clean water, flood relief, Vote for Change (by the way did it and ended up with Pence) etc. and Wilco drawing a line in the sand and hoping to return when this law is repealed,  

 

Lastly, you don't know me, so act like you think you do and don't judge my priorities!  It's called FREEDOM OF SPEECH, as you know, Wilco promotes this.

 

If anyone is freaked out about Wilco cancelling this show then they don't really understand or care about this band and it is time to find some other band to obsess about.

 

LouieB

Please don't misinterpret my comments as freaked out, after all they band spoke up with their VERY STRONG position of hoping to return when this bill is repealed and Mr Pence has absolutely no thoughts of doing so.  The fans affected, or not are allowed their own VERY STRONG positions.

 

The most unsettling thing for me with Wilcos Indy stand is,this is the first time i have ever had to endure people criticizing my favorite band. (even though it's mostly coming from people that have know idea who Wilco is, and have never listened to a song they have played.) In the 15 years i have followed them, even people who didn't like the music of the band never really said anything nasty about them. But i guess that's where we are with social media. It's so easy to hate when you hide behind a keyboard.  

 

uh um, many of this board have criticized them...but of course they are not around anymore

I just wanted to pause and say that...this is the most activity this board has seen in years. It's nice to see.

It's very nice, at one time you could come here and see 100 users and 25 guests.  The board has 850 + members with about a dozen participators now, with a majority of participation in the non Wilco and non music threads.

[worldrecordplayer]

BTW, what is the status of "guests" here?  Can anyone get in and read the forum topics without being a member?  I don't care, just wondering.

[sonnyfeeling]

BTW, what is the status of "guests" here?  Can anyone get in and read the forum topics without being a member?  I don't care, just wondering.

Yes, anyone can follow a link and read the posts in this forum. A handful of forums are protected and require sign-in. (The tickets wanted/extra tickets, for example).

[Mr. Heartbreak]

Here's another interesting article about the law...from the perspective of an Indianapolis Christian minister:

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rick-lowery-phd/why-i-think-my-church-is-upset-about-indianas-rfra_b_6982544.html

[Atticus]

Republicans pass a law and Democrats and left-leaning groups react as if it's the end of the world and warn that people and the Constitution will be trampled underfoot. Then Democrats pass a law and Republicans and right-leaning groups react as if it's the end of the world and warn that people and the Constitution will be trampled underfoot. It's so predictable and gross. But the two parties want everyone to be a single-issue voter because it makes obtaining votes easier. So Democrats will paint Republicans as racist, Bible-thumping, gay-haters who would sell their souls for corporate America, and Republicans will paint Democrats as baby killers who want to teach kids to be homosexuals while hating America and sucking up to communists and Islamists.

 

 

 

I see your point, but I have to say that as to the issue of rights for homosexuals, transgenders (insert any other sex- or gender-based status) in this country, there is a contingent of us who just can't believe we're actually still having a fucking "debate" on these issues.  It's one thing to tackle nuanced issues like abortion and doctor-assisted suicide, but having our governments in 2015 denying rights to people because of whose genitals they like to fondle becomes harder and harder for me to endure with any sense of civility.  I wish I could be more mature about it.  Honestly.  But I'm pissed.

[four dollars]

It's illegal to discriminate against protected class citizens.  LBGT is not a protected group in Indiana.  None of these laws or protests will stop discrimination, however.  Only people can do that.

[Hixter]

I see your point, but I have to say that as to the issue of rights for homosexuals, transgenders (insert any other sex- or gender-based status) in this country, there is a contingent of us who just can't believe we're actually still having a fucking "debate" on these issues.  It's one thing to tackle nuanced issues like abortion and doctor-assisted suicide, but having our governments in 2015 denying rights to people because of whose genitals they like to fondle becomes harder and harder for me to endure with any sense of civility.

The kerfuffle about wedding cakes and photos is of minuscule importance to the gay rights movement. The only true hurdle is the 13 states that don't allow same-sex marriage, but Indiana isn't one of them. This article makes the same point and also includes a mention of Wilco:

 

The talented band Wilco has cancelled its May 7 show in Indianapolis, commenting that the law "feels like a thinly disguised legal discrimination." But Wilco is playing two April shows in Texas, a state that doesn't yet issue marriage licenses to gays. That is, Texas engages in not-at-all-disguised discrimination. Wilco also has upcoming shows in Missouri, Ohio, and Kentucky, other states that don't grant marriage licenses to gays at all despite court rulings (which are presently stayed) declaring that its existing policy constitutes unconstitutional discrimination. Indianapolis, by contrast, actually has a municipal statute that bans anti-gay discrimination!

 

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/04/the-zeal-of-gay-marriage-converts/389273/

[Hixter]

It's illegal to discriminate against protected class citizens.

Why do we even need to separate people into protected classes? Aren't all people assumed to be equal in the eyes of the law? Why differentiate between them?

[arrpadge]

I never thought I would say this, but I am disappointed in the band for this.  I'm in Indiana and was more than looking forward to my first Wilco show in nearly a decade.  This law is bullshit, 100%, that is not the issue.  They weren't coming here to play a private show for Mike Pence and his bigoted cronies, it was for the fans.  Do you honestly think that any of your fans, no matter what shitty state they live in, actually support this kind of hate and intolerance?  If anything we need as much positivity as we can muster out of this embarrassing shitstorm that has been taking place.  Wilco was my shelter from that storm, and I know I'm not the only one.  By doing this you are doing absolutely nothing to help us.  Mike Pence is a fucking moron, if he doesn't care about the LGBT community he doesn't care what a "rock band" says about him.  You are hurting your fans, not the people responsible for this.  Sorry for the rant, I love Wilco, and I always will.  

[Why oh why]

So pissed that Mr. Tweedy put politics before fans. Punishing ticket holders to make a statement sure seems selfish.

 

Explain to an eager young teenager the reasoning behind how this is right, and how they should feel good about the cancellation of a show they have been dreaming about since the first song stuck in their head. You all had that moment!

 

Consider also the positive influence that could have been gained by making a statement at the show. That is the artist as a hero. This is the artist as a coward.

[Cold as Gasoline]

I've gotta say that I understand the disappointment and I understand those who feel that they may have been able to make a statement in a more effective way.  Hey, I am a grown woman who cried when Tweedy was rained out at Taste of Chicago last July.  But I don't get how these actions could possibly be characterized as selfish or cowardly though.  The band lost a bunch of revenue and made lots of people angry to take an unpopular-with-many stance on an issue that was important to them.  What's selfish or cowardly about that?

 

I also don't see how holding an already-scheduled concert and then talking from the stage about how they disagree with the law to a bunch of people who probably agree with them does any good.  The only thing that has caused any movement among politicians in Indiana is the threat of losing money.  And absolutely Wilco is not making anybody in IN rich by holding a concert there, but it's the only leverage they have.

[jw harding]

So pissed that Mr. Tweedy put politics before fans. Punishing ticket holders to make a statement sure seems selfish.

 

Explain to an eager young teenager the reasoning behind how this is right, and how they should feel good about the cancellation of a show they have been dreaming about since the first song stuck in their head. You all had that moment!

 

Consider also the positive influence that could have been gained by making a statement at the show. That is the artist as a hero. This is the artist as a coward.

I have conversations with my kids about equality and tolerance. 

 

You seem to have different kinds of conversations with your kids.

 

My kids would be sad but would understand, and continue to see Jeff in a positive light, proud that he stood up for the rights of our family members. 

 

Good luck with your kids.

[Cold as Gasoline]

Oh, and Jason Narducy has had a fun and non-discriminatory day.  Check out his twitter feed.

https://twitter.com/SplitSingleband

[dave41]

So pissed that Mr. Tweedy put politics before fans. Punishing ticket holders to make a statement sure seems selfish.

 

Explain to an eager young teenager the reasoning behind how this is right, and how they should feel good about the cancellation of a show they have been dreaming about since the first song stuck in their head. You all had that moment!

 

Consider also the positive influence that could have been gained by making a statement at the show. That is the artist as a hero. This is the artist as a coward.

 

I have a hard time determining sarcasm on the interwebs.

[worldrecordplayer]

The concept that Wilco's cancellation in protest of this law is the "artist as coward" is completely lost on me.

 

 

[Why oh why]

I have conversations with my kids about equality and tolerance. 

 

You seem to have different kinds of conversations with your kids.

 

My kids would be sad but would understand, and continue to see Jeff in a positive light, proud that he stood up for the rights of our family members. 

 

Good luck with your kids.

 

The Indiana law is deplorable, but there are many ways to protest. How about donating proceeds from the show instead? Make THAT the conversation.  Boycotting the boycotters is akin to an eye for an eye - all become blind unless someone takes a higher road.  Canceling the show is the low road.. easy politically and easy to swallow for uber-fans.  Less so for ticket holders, venue employees, businesses in the area. I'm not sure how you define tolerance to your kids, but it sounds kind of selective to me.

 

The artist as a hero would craft something poetic in response to the law WITH fans AT the show. Canceling the show is the artist as a coward.

The concept that Wilco's cancellation in protest of this law is the "artist as coward" is completely lost on me.

 

 

 

Obviously.

[Why oh why]

I've gotta say that I understand the disappointment and I understand those who feel that they may have been able to make a statement in a more effective way.  Hey, I am a grown woman who cried when Tweedy was rained out at Taste of Chicago last July.  But I don't get how these actions could possibly be characterized as selfish or cowardly though.  The band lost a bunch of revenue and made lots of people angry to take an unpopular-with-many stance on an issue that was important to them.  What's selfish or cowardly about that?

 

I also don't see how holding an already-scheduled concert and then talking from the stage about how they disagree with the law to a bunch of people who probably agree with them does any good.  The only thing that has caused any movement among politicians in Indiana is the threat of losing money.  And absolutely Wilco is not making anybody in IN rich by holding a concert there, but it's the only leverage they have.

 

Alternative #1 - Donate proceeds from the show x 2 to organizations fighting the law. Spread THAT news on interwebs. Interwebs begets news that everyone sees.

 

Alternative #2 - Play show, take advantage of the fact that most fans hate the law by giving them ways they can act with $, through organizations and votes. Teach true tolerance for those we disagree with, instead of taking the ball and going home.

 

Lost revenue to Wilco pales in comparison to the importance of lost dollars to venue workers and surrounding businesses, where tips are critical, and who almost certainly hate the law too. 

[lost highway]

On page 9 of this thread it would seem prudent to not respond to anyone who's just joined.  If they still want to talk in a couple weeks then we know it's for serious.  I've no time for trolls.

[uncool2pillow]

The Indiana law is deplorable, but there are many ways to protest. How about donating proceeds from the show instead? Make THAT the conversation.  Boycotting the boycotters is akin to an eye for an eye - all become blind unless someone takes a higher road.  Canceling the show is the low road.. easy politically and easy to swallow for uber-fans.  Less so for ticket holders, venue employees, businesses in the area. I'm not sure how you define tolerance to your kids, but it sounds kind of selective to me.

 

The artist as a hero would craft something poetic in response to the law WITH fans AT the show. Canceling the show is the artist as a coward.

 

Obviously.

I think the way Indiana and Arkansas have replied in face of serious economic impact shows that this stance is laughable. Is Wilco helping bring this law down? Maybe at a minscule level, but playing the show and making a bunch of empty, poetic platitudes from the stage would've gotten a lot of cheap applause, some positive posts here, and NO impact on real change.

[Why oh why]

I think the way Indiana and Arkansas have replied in face of serious economic impact shows that this stance is laughable. Is Wilco helping bring this law down? Maybe at a minscule level, but playing the show and making a bunch of empty, poetic platitudes from the stage would've gotten a lot of cheap applause, some positive posts here, and NO impact on real change.

 

Real change alternatives to cancellation:

 

#1 - Donate proceeds from the show x 2 to organizations fighting the law. Spread THAT news on interwebs. Interwebs begets news that everyone sees.

#2 - Play show, take advantage of the fact that most fans hate the law by giving them real ways they can act with $, through organizations and votes. Teach true tolerance for those we disagree with, and how to participate in a disagreement without leaving.

[uncool2pillow]

Boycotts have proven to work time and time again. Sorry for Indiana fans, but they work.

[Hixter]

Boycotts have proven to work time and time again. Sorry for Indiana fans, but they work.

Indiana allows same-sex marriage, but they have shows scheduled in several states to don't allow it, including mine. Why aren't they being boycotted/canceled, too?

[Plumplechook]

On page 9 of this thread it would seem prudent to not respond to anyone who's just joined.  If they still want to talk in a couple weeks then we know it's for serious.  I've no time for trolls.

 

Exactly. Do the mods here have an opinion on trolls who have only signed up in the last couple of days so they can dump on the band with the same discredited talking points?

 

Paste Magazine published an excellent piece yesterday on Wilco's decision to cancel and the 'concern trolling' that followed - a lot of which we've seen on here the last few days.

 

http://www.pastemagazine.com/articles/2015/03/wilco-and-the-concern-trolls-tweedy-and-co-cancel.html

 

In the article Shane Ryan does a great job of demolishing the troll talking points - as per the extract below:

 

Let’s take these point by point.

 

All you’re doing is punishing the fans!

 

Nope. By drawing attention to Indiana’s law, and showing that it will have consequences for the people of the state, Wilco is increasing the already significant pressure on Mike Pence and the politicians of Indiana. It’s also magnifying the pressure on the state’s citizens to push for reform. Any attempt to make Wilco look like the bad guy is just diverting responsibility from where it belongs. Indiana lost this concert because of its government, not because Jeff Tweedy hates his fans.

 

The fans are innocent bystanders!

 

As far as I know, Mike Pence and the Indiana House of Representatives didn’t take power through a violent coup d’etat—I feel like I would have heard about that. They were elected by the people, and like it or not, the people are a reflection of their elected leaders. Believe me, I know this is a tough pill to swallow — I live in North Carolina — but it’s the truth.

 

You’re discriminating just like they are!

 

It’s hugely disingenuous to lump together a state government that is actively offering protection for private businesses who want to deny service to a certain group of people, and a band that chooses to cancel a show in protest. In the 1970s, Americans boycotted Polaroid because the company did business with the South African apartheid government. Would you ever have said that the Americans were “discriminating” against Polaroid the same way that South Africa was discriminating against its black citizens? Nobody’s arguing that Indiana has reached the level of apartheid, but the philosophical illegitimacy of the argument is the same. False equivalency is a hallmark of the concern troll.

 

Why aren’t you boycotting all the other RFRA states?

 

We’ve covered how the Indiana statute differs from those that came before, but the truth is, even if their RFRA was identical to its predecessors, this is still a toothless argument. The reality is that Indiana has taken center stage, and if the opposition adopted the attitude of, “well, it’s already happened, so I guess we should just let it slide,” it would give carte blanche to other states to pass similar legislation. This is a classic concern troll tactic—the implication that something offensive should be excused because it happens to be status quo. The fact that a stand should have been taken years earlier doesn’t diminish the importance of taking one now.

 

This won’t make any impact! It won’t solve the problem!

 

Wrong. It’s already made an impact, and a pretty big one, publicity-wise. Reasonable people can disagree about the long-term effects—maybe this will rally the conservative base more than it riles up the liberal opposition—but Wilco have successfully drawn more attention to Indiana’s RFRA, and increased the pressure on Mike Pence. Yet again, we see a quintessential concern troll stratagem: You’re not going to change anything, so why bother speaking up? The idea that it’s not a worthwhile stand since it won’t singlehandedly revoke the RFRA is similarly short-sighted and troll-ish—even though he guest-starred on Parks & Recreation once, Jeff Tweedy is not an Indiana politician. Within his purview, he’s done everything he can. It’s not his job to be Political Superman.

 

When you reduce the concern troll tactics to their baseline absurdity, this becomes a very simple issue. Wilco doesn’t like Indiana’s RFRA. Wilco took a stand by canceling a concert in the state. The cancelation drew more attention to the law, and proved that there are repercussions to its passage—even if those repercussions are limited to one concert by one band. They know, though, that change isn’t enacted in one dramatic, sweeping moment, but by an accumulation of consequences. By jumping in with both feet at the start of the process, Wilco might prove to have a bigger impact than anyone expected.

 

Even if that snowball effect never comes to pass, and Indiana businesses proudly assert their legally protected right to turn away LGBT customers for decades to come, the failure doesn’t belong to Wilco. Standing up for your beliefs is the right thing to do, even when you lose.

[uncool2pillow]

Indiana allows same-sex marriage, but they have shows scheduled in several states to don't allow it, including mine. Why aren't they being boycotted/canceled, too?

You'd have to ask the members of the band. I would suggest a possibility is that they are willing to wait out the upcoming Supreme Court decisions.