The Grateful Dead

[Analogman]

I never noticed David Gans was not in there. Odd. You would think he would be. 

[John Smith]

"I joined the 1972 tour of Europe to see Europe and to write songs (and because I always toured with the band) – endless European bus trips seemed like a God sent time to get the next album sketched out since Garcia was almost always otherwise occupied in the States - maybe a fourth album to follow the Workingman's Dead/American Beauty/Rambling Rose trilogy." Robert Hunter

 

 

Rambling Rose, the "lost" follow up studio album to American Beauty: What songs would have been on it?

 

This post on Light Into Ashes' blog got me thinking about it, even though its not the main topic of the post

http://deadessays.blogspot.com/2014/03/the-brotherhood-vs-dead-machine.html

 

This thread is linked in the replies: http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/compile-a-lost-grateful-dead-album-from-1971.324864/

 

This is what I came up with. I decided to stick to only stuff that came out or was recorded in 1972 (don't hold me to absolute accuracy in that statement), so Bertha and Wharf Rat were out. Europe '72 original LP is half-studio with so many overdubs so I chose versions from there when I could. I decided stuff from Garcia and Ace were also fair game. I could not quite decide if the Ace stuff should only be the Weir-Hunter songs or if I could include the Weir-Barlow songs. I also tried to mostly stick to the anachronistic Americana vibe in my song selection although that wasn't possible if I wanted more than one or two Weir songs on there. I kicked around several versions with different songs (some had Black Throated Wind and Bertha and Next Time You See Me) and sequencing, but this is what I am liking best this week:

 

Side A

Ramble On Rose - Europe '72

Mr. Charlie - Europe '72

Jack Straw - Europe '72

Brown Eyed Women - Europe '72

Playing In The Band - Ace

 

Side B

He's Gone - Europe '72

Chinatown Shuffle - Steppin' Out

Loser - 4/14/72 Copenhagen

Tennessee Jed - Europe '72

One More Saturday Night - Ace

Deal - Garcia

 

Care to come up with your own creation of Rambling Rose?

Either Uncut or Mojo had a ramble on rose give away made up of mainly live cuts. I'll look it up and try to get back to it.

 

As to to the discussion of the film it's sort of like that old story of the bljnd men touching the elephant and describing it. One has the head and trunk the other has the torso. They are describing the same thing but from different perspectives. I enjoyed the film, but I don't have the depth of knowledge that others have here.

[Lammycat]

That's an important thing to point out. I know from a conversation with Healy that he declined to be interviewed, as did others. I know that Dick Latvala's widow Carol (who herself was employed in the ticket office for a number of years) actually WAS interviewed but sadly that ended up on the cutting room floor. All I could say to her was, "I guess I'll wait for the director's cut!"

 

I'm not sure if Gans was interviewed - he's a busy guy on his own, touring constantly. I thought Silberman was great - #1 - he's a very engaging, loquacious guy, certainly, and secondly - he (and Gans, and especially with Rain Man Gary Lambert!) are a few of the most knowledgeable GD scholars we have and if they wanna talk Dead I'm all ears. Hey, I know some stuff, but these guys are on another level. 

^ Yep.

 

Also, from what I've read/learned, too, the documentary wasn't intended to be a comprehensive time line of the band, rather a look at the and from various angles. A little odd that Vince and Keith were glossed over, but hey, its a chunk of art in its own right. Either way, I enjoyed it for what it it. Theres plenty of varied ways to glean insight into the band through text and the tunes.

[jw harding]

OK, I'll bite. Taking Europe 72, solo albums, and live albums of the era. But I don't think any of these are better than the originals.

 

Bertha
Greatest Story Ever Told
Sugaree
Cassidy
Mr. Charlie
Playing In The Band
The Wheel
Wharf Rat
Not Fade Away
Goin' Down The Road Feeling Bad

 

Deal
Mexicali Blues
Loser
Me And My Uncle
Big Boss Man
Bird Song
Me And Bobby McGee
To Lay Me Down
Looks Like Rain
Katie Mae

 

Cumberland Blues
He's Gone
Jack Straw
Brown Eyed Women
Black Throated Wind
Ramble On Rose
Chinatown Shuffle
Tennessee Jed
One More Saturday Night

 

And a live album of what's left: 

 

China Cat Sunflower
I Know You Rider
Mama Tried
Big Railroad Blues
It Hurts Me Too
Dark Hollow
I've Been All Around This World
Wake Up Little Susie
Black Peter
Hard To Handle
Truckin’
The Other One
Smokestack Lightning
You Win Again
Sugar Magnolia
Morning Dew
Johnny B. Goode

[John Smith]

Here is what Uncut gave away for their version of Ramble on Rose in 2015.  They had an article with it explaining each of the tracks, but I no longer have the issue.

 

Mr Charlie (8-7-71)

Brown Eyed Woman (8-24-71)

Look Like Rain (2-26-73)

He's Gone (5-4-72)

Loser (9-21-72)

Comes a TIme (4-26-72)

Ramble on Rose (9-21-72)

Chinatown Shuffle (5-11-72)

Black Throated Wind (9-27-72)

To Lay Me Down (American Beauty Outtake)

 

Im not enough of a Dead person to discuss/argue the validity of this list, but its what they did and there it is...

[Sun Caught Fire]

I apologize to everyone on this forum for antagonism on my part. This is a great place to discuss all sorts of things, and I don't want to upset that.

 

But I'm not backing away from anything I've said about this film, or about my experiences dealing with deadheads, or being a deadhead.

 

Agree with your sentiment about this forum. My reaction, particularly in the charged times we are currently experiencing, was to the following generalization about deadheads only being apologist "praisers" of the band:

 

"I have found that to be an utterly pathetic and predictable trait of deadheads, and I'm sorry to see it here on a WIlco based forum."  

 

Had you made clear that the trait you observed was narrowly limited to only those you have known then so be it, and indeed unfortunate as that has never been my experience with the deadheads i have known both during my active touring years (1977-1995) and to thereafter. I think no doubt every band of substance has fans who fail or refuse to see/accept or acknowledge any shortcomings or faults, but even so I am happy for folks to derive joy from their musical heroes/choices even if a more critical eye would surely at times be below a raised eyebrow or 2.  Sorry for my strong reaction, peace. 

[winterland121072]

I always thought the only real highlight of 15 July 1989 was the Peggy and Bird Song...but alas I was wrong - the Foolish Victim Crazy Truckin Smokestack is really impressive (but for the amazing Weir flub during Crazy).

[mountain bed]

I always thought the only real highlight of 15 July 1989 was the Peggy and Bird Song...but alas I was wrong - the Foolish Victim Crazy Truckin Smokestack is really impressive (but for the amazing Weir flub during Crazy).

Oh yeah, the Crazy Fingers is a vocal trainwreck there! I was there, and we were all "WTF?". 

 

First Deer Creek show. Boy was THAT a charged atmosphere. Local farmers were completely freaked out.

[jff]

Agree with your sentiment about this forum. My reaction, particularly in the charged times we are currently experiencing, was to the following generalization about deadheads only being apologist "praisers" of the band:

 

"I have found that to be an utterly pathetic and predictable trait of deadheads, and I'm sorry to see it here on a WIlco based forum."  

 

Had you made clear that the trait you observed was narrowly limited to only those you have known then so be it, and indeed unfortunate as that has never been my experience with the deadheads i have known both during my active touring years (1977-1995) and to thereafter. I think no doubt every band of substance has fans who fail or refuse to see/accept or acknowledge any shortcomings or faults, but even so I am happy for folks to derive joy from their musical heroes/choices even if a more critical eye would surely at times be below a raised eyebrow or 2.  Sorry for my strong reaction, peace. 

 

My Dead experience is limited to the '90s.  Maybe it goes back to '88, or so. I have no doubt that prior to that, and particularly in the '70s, the scene lived up to the generally accepted stereotype of peaceful hippies grooving to music.  So, yeah, I would agree that my original statement was a pretty gross overreach based on experiencing what pretty much everyone agrees were the worst years of the scene.

[Lammycat]

The vast majority of friends/'heads I've met in the roughly 40 yrs I've been listening/seeing them have no problem whatsoever criticizing/panning/ragging on any aspect of the band/tunes. 

 

Remember, this is a base crowd whom collectively and successfully incited the band to stop playing a tune that they, collectively, deemed not up to par with expectations....

[jff]

The vast majority of friends/'heads I've met in the roughly 40 yrs I've been listening/seeing them have no problem whatsoever criticizing/panning/ragging on any aspect of the band/tunes. 

 

Remember, this is a base crowd whom collectively and successfully incited the band to stop playing a tune that they, collectively, deemed not up to par with expectations....

Haha, when did that happen?  

[calvino]

 

Hunter, in his Box of Rain, notes that

"This song was dropped from the Grateful Dead repertoire at the request of fans. Seriously."

 

"Keep you Day Job" - 80's.

 

I thought the note that Hunter wrote in Box of Rain - his  book of lyrics-  was pretty funny.

 

http://artsites.ucsc.edu/GDead/agdl/djob.html

[mountain bed]

The vast majority of friends/'heads I've met in the roughly 40 yrs I've been listening/seeing them have no problem whatsoever criticizing/panning/ragging on any aspect of the band/tunes. 

 

 

Yeah, which is why it's so perplexing that many of our friends (real and virtual - we've discussed this before) are so excited about this DeadCo LLC thing. Many of them have seen more shows than me - or even you, for that matter. I'm sure it must be a "you gotta be there" type of thing, but for me personally the social aspect of The Dead is long long gone at this point. Gone by the time Brent passed, if not earlier.

 

People making reservations for Cancun, doing Summer tour, etc. - I just don't get it. Are they listening to shows from this last year like we do with Garcia-Era Dead? Do they even remember shows from the Jerry years? Because this current thing is NOT that. I find it boring as hell.  

[Mr. Heartbreak]

Yeah, which is why it's so perplexing that many of our friends (real and virtual - we've discussed this before) are so excited about this DeadCo LLC thing. Many of them have seen more shows than me - or even you, for that matter. I'm sure it must be a "you gotta be there" type of thing, but for me personally the social aspect of The Dead is long long gone at this point. Gone by the time Brent passed, if not earlier.

 

People making reservations for Cancun, doing Summer tour, etc. - I just don't get it. Are they listening to shows from this last year like we do with Garcia-Era Dead? Do they even remember shows from the Jerry years? Because this current thing is NOT that. I find it boring as hell.

Yeah, it's like a photocopy of a photocopy of a photocopy...

[jw harding]

Happy 8/27. 45th anni of a contender for best all time. One of the many concerts I'll time travel back to some day. 

[i'm only sleeping]

Next box

 

Robert F. Kennedy Stadium, Washington, D.C., July 12 & 13, 1989 

 

http://www.dead.net/store/1980s/rfk-stadium-1989-box?cmpid=dn/2017September1/RfkStadium1989B-PreOrderItNow-main-more-1&eml=2017September1/4095617/6131962&etsubid=40692451

[calvino]

Next box

 

Robert F. Kennedy Stadium, Washington, D.C., July 12 & 13, 1989 

 

http://www.dead.net/store/1980s/rfk-stadium-1989-box?cmpid=dn/2017September1/RfkStadium1989B-PreOrderItNow-main-more-1&eml=2017September1/4095617/6131962&etsubid=40692451

 

They announce this over a month ago -- i am guess the sales must be sluggish - I just got the " RFK STADIUM 1989 BOX BREAKING NEWS" email too. I did see the 7/12/89 show when in played in theaters last month - it was a fun show, but I will skip this one. Probably would spring for it if they included DVD's of both the shows - esp. at that price point.

 

Also part of the email was about who bought Garcia's Wolf

 

http://www.dead.net/features/interviews/all-family-brian-halligan?cmpid=dn/2017September1/AllInFamilyBria-ReadItHere-main-more-4&eml=2017September1/4095617/6131962&etsubid=39846038

 

I thought the below was a bit funny:

 

 

 

Tell us a little bit about your decision to bid on Jerry's "Wolf" guitar at the Brooklyn Bowl.

The decision to bid on "Wolf" was a step-by-step journey for me.

Step 1: I heard about Wolf going up for sale and was intrigued because I not only am a big fan of the music, but the book I wrote a book and started a company that just went public based on the things I borrowed from the Grateful Dead's business model. The Grateful Dead had a large and an outsized positive impact on my life.

Step 2: A friend of mine told me that I should think about the purchase as an "asset,” not unlike a stock or a bond. In addition to it being a lot of fun, it "might" be a smart investment diversification strategy for me.

Step 3: I heard that all the money would go to the Southern Poverty Law Center and that there was an anonymous matching donor. Wow!

Step 4: I went to the Brooklyn Bowl, had a number in my head, avoided getting wasted prior to the auction, bid, and magic happened!

[i'm only sleeping]

^Yeah, it turns out I thought it was a new thing  and your post clicked something in my brain: I ordered the thing one month ago! My ageing brain...

[calvino]

^Yeah, it turns out I thought it was a new thing  and your post clicked something in my brain: I ordered the thing one month ago! My ageing brain...

 

At least you didn't order it again when you got today's email.

[jw harding]

Josh Ritter track featuring Bob on a few verses:

 

http://www.rollingstone.com/country/news/hear-josh-ritter-bob-weirs-duet-when-will-i-be-changed-w501728

[Winston Legthigh]

I've been listening to Dick's Pick #3 during my commutes lately. Fantastic show, it's a shame that the release doesn't have the full show. 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dick%27s_Picks_Volume_3

 

There's a section during Eyes of the World that the sound quality almost makes me sea-sick though. It sounds like the recording was put through a phaser, and also the sound is going quickly Left Right Left Right - for about 20 seconds, right in the middle of the jam. Anyone else ever notice this? I don't know if it's perceptible without headphones on. It seriously made me dizzy. 

[Mr. Heartbreak]

Hard to believe (for me, anyway), but my very first Dead show was 35 years ago today.

 

Grateful Dead at Veterans' Memorial Coliseum on 1982-09-23

 

SBD: https://archive.org/details/gd1982-09-23.sbd.miller.108973.flac16

 

AUD: https://archive.org/details/gd82-09-23.sen421.miller.12520.sbeok.shnf

 

I usually give it a spin every few years or so on the anniversary. I was all of 17 at the time, already a pretty demanding concertgoer, having seen Kiss, Aerosmith and a group of lads from merry old England calling themselves The Who.

 

I'd watched these Dead guys perform Casey Jones and Good Lovin' on SNL in '78, but other than that, I wasn't very familiar with their repertoire. Besides, the girl singer was gone by now, and had been replaced by a bearded dude mainly known to casual Deadheads as "new guy." He played a lot of B3-sounding keyboards in those first few years. Good stuff.

 

Like so many boards of the era, this one doesn't provide any sense of what it sounded like in the room. For that reason, I almost prefer the AUD. 

 

I still miss Jerry.

[i'm only sleeping]

I'm curious...Does people prefer AUDs over SBDs only by the 'I was there' factor? Some matrix sound great, that's true

[Mr. Heartbreak]

I'm curious...Does people prefer AUDs over SBDs only by the 'I was there' factor? Some matrix sound great, that's true

I generally prefer SBD. However, the early 80s shows can sound particularly sterile, and Dave L. has mentioned some kick drum issues. I actually switched over to the SBD on this show today after listening to a few tracks from the AUD version. I have the SBD in my iTunes, so it was just easier.

[Lammycat]

Hard to believe (for me, anyway), but my very first Dead show was 35 years ago today.

 

Grateful Dead at Veterans' Memorial Coliseum on 1982-09-23

 

SBD: https://archive.org/details/gd1982-09-23.sbd.miller.108973.flac16

 

AUD: https://archive.org/details/gd82-09-23.sen421.miller.12520.sbeok.shnf

 

I usually give it a spin every few years or so on the anniversary. I was all of 17 at the time, already a pretty demanding concertgoer, having seen Kiss, Aerosmith and a group of lads from merry old England calling themselves The Who.

 

I'd watched these Dead guys perform Casey Jones and Good Lovin' on SNL in '78, but other than that, I wasn't very familiar with their repertoire. Besides, the girl singer was gone by now, and had been replaced by a bearded dude mainly known to casual Deadheads as "new guy." He played a lot of B3-sounding keyboards in those first few years. Good stuff.

 

Like so many boards of the era, this one doesn't provide any sense of what it sounded like in the room. For that reason, I almost prefer the AUD. 

 

I still miss Jerry.

Nice. i was at this show, too, (maybe 16 and a sophomore?). Both Throwing Stones and Touch were just about a week old. I remember some older head asking me if I new what tune that were playing during 'Touch" and I said "no." He grimaced and laughed and said..."yeah, I remember MY first show!" I had Actually been to a few GD shows at that point and the tune was a week old! Tough crowd, heh.