The Black Crowes

[choo-choo-charlie]

I have not heard any of Marc's records. I listened to the new Rich album yesterday. I don't think I will buy it.

 

Me neither. I thought there were a few good tracks but not enough to compel me to purchase it...

[Analogman]

He needs a singer. His vocals are better than they use to be - but still - he needs someone else to sing.

[Moss]

Well, as far as Marc Ford goes I wouldn't start with this new one.  Has some good stuff on it but is basically a mellow acoustic album.  I much prefer his electric stuff.  Would highly recommend his album Fuzz Machine.  Not real impressed with either Marc or Rich vocally though.

[Analogman]

I sort of wonder at this point what is holding up the release of the Trigger Hippy album.

[Shug]

Well, as far as Marc Ford goes I wouldn't start with this new one.  Has some good stuff on it but is basically a mellow acoustic album.  I much prefer his electric stuff.  Would highly recommend his album Fuzz Machine.  Not real impressed with either Marc or Rich vocally though.

Fuzz Machine! I love this album, loud raunchy guitars, great songwriting, Neil Young-like vocals, which I like in this musical setting.  I hear so much Crazy Horse influence in this one.  I'm pretty sure I've said all that before.

 

I agree, Marc Ford's new album is too mellow and not strong enough on the songwriting for me.  Songs like these probably need better vocals.

 

i think Rich's singing has gotten much better in the past few years and he's frequently mentioned in interviews that he's learned to write songs that fit his limited vocal range and abilities.  Through A Crooked Sun is quite good vocally.  Also listen to his singing on the Brothers Of A Feather dvd, live acoustic duo with Chris in 2007.  Forgiven Song,  pretty good, to my ears.

[nodep5]

I just feel the CRB is where it is at.  I think for a rocker past his prime hippie burnout which is Chris Robinson, he has found a beautiful trip here with this project.  To my ears Big Moon Ritual is the best of the three CRB releases, but they all are worthy, cool vibe, beautiful artwork, hippie/biker appearance.  I will say something in all honesty…….I never gave hippie jams or grateful dead type stuff much focus until the CRB and now this is where i'm at.  Maybe I'm getting older or something. 

[jw harding]

Just saw an excellent CRB show this past weekend. It's definitely derivative of the Grateful Dead and Garcia band in the 70's - cosmic cowboy hippie thing - but that's about as good as it gets so I don't mind. Their originals are pretty forgettable, but they lead to some good jams and put on a great show, fun band that plays well together. I prefer them to the Crowes, who I find to be equally derivative but with less interesting influences for my tastes. There are audio recordings of full shows up on youtube if anyone is interested. 

[Vacant Horizon]

i agree about CRB.  i'm just so into them lately.  i've not seen them live yet and wasn't too impressed with the betty boards, but damn of those studio albums aren't killer.  excellent production and very good songwriting with enough mellow twists and turns to keep it interesting.  i wasn't a huge fan of the earth mud stuff, but love how CRB does those tunes.

[Lammycat]

I just feel the CRB is where it is at.  I think for a rocker past his prime hippie burnout which is Chris Robinson, he has found a beautiful trip here with this project.  To my ears Big Moon Ritual is the best of the three CRB releases, but they all are worthy, cool vibe, beautiful artwork, hippie/biker appearance.  I will say something in all honesty…….I never gave hippie jams or grateful dead type stuff much focus until the CRB and now this is where i'm at.  Maybe I'm getting older or something. 

I agree on Big Moon Ritual. "Rosalee" is my favorite things he does live (only watched videos of live shows, missed 2 in Denver 2 weekends ago even though I had tickets). 

 

This band really is the shit right now.

[Lammycat]

  i wasn't a huge fan of the earth mud stuff, but love how CRB does those tunes.

I was thinking about this the other day. CRB has a more laid-back vibe, I think. Even a tune like "Sunday Sound," which I really like, has a different live feel to it in CRB over New Earth....

[choo-choo-charlie]

I guess I need to spend more time with the CRB releases. I just haven't latched on to them at all -- maybe it's because I'm not well-versed in the Dead. I find a lot of it...sleepy.

[Shug]

 I have a very different opinion of CRB than many.  I saw CRB when they first started out and was not that impressed.  I didn't go see them again until this past weekend in Joshua Tree, CA at Pappy and Harriets because there were two good bands opening (Howlin' Rain and Buffalo Killers, whom i thought were both very good) and a bunch of friends were going and Joshua Tree and Pappy's are such cool spots.  My friends loved the show, I absolutely hated it.  I find CRB to be a very weak version of the Dead and/or Garcia Band.  Neal and Adam are not good soloists to me.  There are no real crescendos in their solos nor in the band's ensemble playing.  Muddy and George are adequate at best on their instruments.  Chris' songwriting has really deteriorated with Before The Frost and on (last great songs he released, IMO, are on Warpaint, Oh Josephine, Locust Street, Movin' On Down The Line, Goodbye Daughters).  His new songs seem to deal in cliched 19th century American imagery and to me they have no gravitas or serious emotion or substance.  Its a lot like his New Age-y hippie speak babble to me, it just doesn't ring true like his songwriting and lyrics have for so many years.  It baffles me how and why he's changed in this way.

 

There were some songs I liked pretty well, mostly the 50s and 60s rock 'n' roll covers (Let's Go, Shake Rattle and Roll, Never Been To Spain) and Tumbleweed in Eden was not too bad.  Rosallee, out of his newer songs, is the one I like best.  My friends thought I'd be stoked on Bertha, but it just didn't go anywhere, no crescendo.

 

I had a friend go see Rich Robinson on the opening night of his tour in Mill Valley (on the same night) and he told me he'd take CRB anyday over Rich Robinson live.  I find that so shocking because I hear so much brilliance in Rich's music and so much mediocrity in Chris' current music.  I guess some people like the mellow laid back vibe of CRB.  I don't get it myself.  Rich's music is, to me, in on an entirely higher level than CRB, but CRB has way more fans, clearly.  Some of them are Deadheads who've found a new band to follow (I saw some people used to go to Dead shows with that I hadn't seen or talked to since 1992, what a trip), Crowes fans who think CR can do no wrong, and even some folks who didn't like either band but are getting into this trip.

 

I don't begrudge anyone their musical pleasure and it was fun to watch my friends and strangers getting so into it, but it sure is puzzling to me.

[Analogman]

I'd say there are some great songs here:

 

 

Before the Frost...

1. "Good Morning Captain" – 3:24
2. "Been a Long Time (Waiting on Love)" – 7:47
3. "Appaloosa" – 3:35
4. "A Train Still Makes a Lonely Sound" – 4:23
5. "I Ain't Hiding" (C. Robinson) – 5:57
6. "Kept My Soul" – 5:23
7. "What Is Home?" (R. Robinson) – 5:13
8. "Houston Don't Dream About Me" – 5:05
9. "Make Glad" – 4:18
10. "And the Band Played On..." – 4:12
11. "The Last Place That Love Lives" (C. Robinson) – 4:57

...Until the Freeze

1. "Aimless Peacock" – 6:40
2. "The Shady Grove" – 4:42
3. "The Garden Gate" – 4:21
4. "Greenhorn" – 7:12
5. "Shine Along" – 4:47
6. "Roll Old Jeremiah" (C. Robinson) – 4:40
7. "Lady of Avenue A" – 5:20
8. "So Many Times" (Chris Hillman, Stephen Stills) – 4:53
9. "Fork in the River" (C. Robinson) – 4:11

[thermocaster]

I'm not a Deadhead by any means, I barely have gotten into their stuff. I don't dislike it, I just haven't ever really gotten into it.

 

I think CRB is a lot of fun and the songs are really enjoyable as long as you take them for what they are - sonic experiences and abstract imagery. If you're expecting something different than that, then I'd say the problem is you, not the writing.

 

BTF/UTF had a lot of really excellent songs on it, I agree. It was a great middle-aged album, if that makes any sense.

 

RR's stuff is also good, but very different. Reminds me of Stephen Stills' heavier solo work from the 70s. I'd probably still choose to go to a CRB show over an RR show if I had to make that choice, but I'm hoping to catch both this summer.

[Shug]

I know a lot of people like Before The Frost.  I think its way too much of Chris' vision.  The best songs, to me, are So Many Times (Rich has impeccable taste in his covers, I think), What Is Home and a very great CR composition, Fork In The River. Been A Long Time was excellent live. Appaloosa aint too bad. But the rest of it is fair to poor, IMO. It also has the atrocious Garden Gate, probably my least favorite Crowes song.  Yuck!  I know lots of people connected with it, but I see it as the beginning of the decline for CR's music.

[Vacant Horizon]

@Shug-

 

i get a bit of what you're saying.  i'm a fair weather crowes fan, but i loved most of Before the Frost.  Garden Gate is pretty bad.  i like the CRB studio stuff best.  they can't jam at all live and the shows i've heard are just kind of boring.  i do love the original tunes best.  i think chris is just moving on from the Faces/Stone's Crowes vibe.  he said in interviews leading up to the first CRB album that it's unabashedly influenced by the 'bands we're into.'  chris is a huge deadhead and so the direction he is going makes perfect sense.  

 

i've thought about seeing this CRB/Ratdog tour, but i just don't think i could stomach Ratdog.  they're a train wreck.

[calvino]

 

i've thought about seeing this CRB/Ratdog tour, but i just don't think i could stomach Ratdog.  they're a train wreck.

 

This most recent incarnation of Ratdog played well this past tour --- they actually had a little punch.

[Vacant Horizon]

This most recent incarnation of Ratdog played well this past tour --- they actually had a little punch.

i've listened to several shows and i'm still not sold.  Kimock is much more interesting than Karan, but he's hardly there except for solos here and there.  not to mention everything is so damn slow.  i know that's the rat dog vibe..slow and bluesy without an outright soloist.  

[Lammycat]

Kimock has always been a nice fit in Ratdog, imo (filled in for Karan a few years ago when he was sick). I like Kimock in that role better than going to see Kimock play in his own band, which, to me, gets tedious quickly.

[calvino]

Agree - I saw Kimock with his solo band about 12-13 years ago and it was pretty boring. I thought he sounded great with the last Ratdog show I saw, though  --- definitely does not do any 'ripping' solos, but that's fine by me.

Really enjoy the two bass attack (once I found Rob W. in the mix)

 

 

I am bit disappointed the Rich is playing a far northwest suburb of Chicago, when he passes through the area, and not it the city, proper.

[Mr. Heartbreak]

 I find CRB to be a very weak version of the Dead and/or Garcia Band.  Neal and Adam are not good soloists to me.  There are no real crescendos in their solos nor in the band's ensemble playing.  Muddy and George are adequate at best on their instruments.  Chris' songwriting has really deteriorated with Before The Frost and on (last great songs he released, IMO, are on Warpaint, Oh Josephine, Locust Street, Movin' On Down The Line, Goodbye Daughters).  His new songs seem to deal in cliched 19th century American imagery and to me they have no gravitas or serious emotion or substance.  Its a lot like his New Age-y hippie speak babble to me, it just doesn't ring true like his songwriting and lyrics have for so many years.  It baffles me how and why he's changed in this way.

 

There were some songs I liked pretty well, mostly the 50s and 60s rock 'n' roll covers (Let's Go, Shake Rattle and Roll, Never Been To Spain) and Tumbleweed in Eden was not too bad.  Rosallee, out of his newer songs, is the one I like best.  My friends thought I'd be stoked on Bertha, but it just didn't go anywhere, no crescendo.

 

I don't begrudge anyone their musical pleasure and it was fun to watch my friends and strangers getting so into it, but it sure is puzzling to me.

 

It must be pretty dispiriting for a big time Crowes fan to see CR go in a direction that you don't connect with and then have to read about it every time you open this thread. We really ought to start a CRB thread, because they are a working band with three albums to their credit.

 

I was interested in your comments (weak version of the Dead, no crescendos, etc.) As Neal himself might say, "Sorry you don't dig it." I actually hear a lot of Little Feat and The Band, two groups I never got heavily into, but enjoy at times. I am really surprised by the "no crescendo" comment, though. Listen to the original version of Star or Stone on Big Moon Ritual, and you might feel differently.

 

What amuses me about the length of your comments (and the level of negativity in them) is that I did the exact same thing in the Grateful Dead thread a while back, criticizing various aspects of performances or recordings, and I think you were the only one who really found it to be a kind of objectionable downer. Now I guess I know how you felt at the time. I don't think CRB is ever going to become my favorite band of all time, but it is what it is, and for me it's fun to see a talented group of people carry on this type of music when no one else seems to be doing that.

[DewieCox]

 I have a very different opinion of CRB than many.  I saw CRB when they first started out and was not that impressed.  I didn't go see them again until this past weekend in Joshua Tree, CA at Pappy and Harriets because there were two good bands opening (Howlin' Rain and Buffalo Killers, whom i thought were both very good) and a bunch of friends were going and Joshua Tree and Pappy's are such cool spots.  My friends loved the show, I absolutely hated it.  I find CRB to be a very weak version of the Dead and/or Garcia Band.  Neal and Adam are not good soloists to me.  There are no real crescendos in their solos nor in the band's ensemble playing.  Muddy and George are adequate at best on their instruments.  Chris' songwriting has really deteriorated with Before The Frost and on (last great songs he released, IMO, are on Warpaint, Oh Josephine, Locust Street, Movin' On Down The Line, Goodbye Daughters).  His new songs seem to deal in cliched 19th century American imagery and to me they have no gravitas or serious emotion or substance.  Its a lot like his New Age-y hippie speak babble to me, it just doesn't ring true like his songwriting and lyrics have for so many years.  It baffles me how and why he's changed in this way.

 

There were some songs I liked pretty well, mostly the 50s and 60s rock 'n' roll covers (Let's Go, Shake Rattle and Roll, Never Been To Spain) and Tumbleweed in Eden was not too bad.  Rosallee, out of his newer songs, is the one I like best.  My friends thought I'd be stoked on Bertha, but it just didn't go anywhere, no crescendo.

 

I had a friend go see Rich Robinson on the opening night of his tour in Mill Valley (on the same night) and he told me he'd take CRB anyday over Rich Robinson live.  I find that so shocking because I hear so much brilliance in Rich's music and so much mediocrity in Chris' current music.  I guess some people like the mellow laid back vibe of CRB.  I don't get it myself.  Rich's music is, to me, in on an entirely higher level than CRB, but CRB has way more fans, clearly.  Some of them are Deadheads who've found a new band to follow (I saw some people used to go to Dead shows with that I hadn't seen or talked to since 1992, what a trip), Crowes fans who think CR can do no wrong, and even some folks who didn't like either band but are getting into this trip.

 

I don't begrudge anyone their musical pleasure and it was fun to watch my friends and strangers getting so into it, but it sure is puzzling to me.

 

I'm with you on most of what you say, but I don't really know if it's a decline in CR's ability or the route he's chosen to take. I'll give him credit for buying into whatever image he's into selling at a given moment, as he's always done, but I don't think there's anything exciting at all about what he's doing. The jams just meander and totally lack the technical skill to pull off well.

 

Give me RR any day.

[Shug]

Yeah its true that I really dislike CRB and its still shocking to me the number of people who like CRB so much and how little enthusiasm there is for Rich's projects, but there is no need for you to feel sorry for me over it.  Musicans take different directions with their music and sometimes somebody that I really loved at one time does starts making music I can't connect with and they are gonna do what they do.  When that happens, because I've had such a strong emotional connection to the music, it takes me some time and thinking and talking to sort it all out.  That's what I am trying to do with CRB.  I'm not trying to take away anybody's enjoyment and if my comments have done that with you, then I apologize.

 

I did say a lot of negative things but i tried to balance it with the positive, like my comment about Fork In The River (re Chris's songwriting decline), the relative quality of the 50s and 60s rock covers and the New Earth Mud songs.  So, again, if my comments diminished your enjoyment of CRB, I apologize.  I think its great that you and many others are hearing something in CRB that they like and I am not bummed out by hearing you guys talk about how much you are digging CRB.  I do wish there were more folks who were as excited about Rich as I am, but that's just how it goes.

[choo-choo-charlie]

After having spent time listening to each, I'll take RR over CRB any day. There, I said it.

[Mr. Heartbreak]

... if my comments diminished your enjoyment of CRB, I apologize.  I think its great that you and many others are hearing something in CRB that they like and I am not bummed out by hearing you guys talk about how much you are digging CRB.  I do wish there were more folks who were as excited about Rich as I am, but that's just how it goes.

No worries. I remember you being very passionate about the Dead (which is cool in my world), and I am too. I think it might be easier to get into CRB if you're a Deadhead who is not a huge fan of the Crowes. If you are a long time hardcore Crowes fan, I can see where this would be a letdown. I have a few of their CDs, and have gotten some live material in the past few years, but overall I find them a bit noisy and monotonous. Like jw harding said, "I prefer them to the Crowes, who I find to be equally derivative but with less interesting influences for my tastes." As I get older, I am really mellowing out a bit - listening to a LOT of classic jazz, and so on - so the CRB stuff is just more in my wheelhouse. I have tried Rich's material and it did nothing for me, but I think it was mainly just the vocals. I will give him another shot based on your recommendation.