New Election Thread

[sweetheart-mine]

thieves and looters are far from my favorite people, but "they should be shot on sight"? a little lack of imagination there, sir. and if assault rifles and ammunition are the answers, why, i'll vote for bush's third term.

[Party @ the Moontower]

I know I'm about to demonize myself, but probably not. I have no faith in either major party to represent anything more than their interests, and our system is so fucked up that there's no point in voting independent. So I won't.

 

A no vote holds the same power as a vote for any of the non major candidates.

 

I might write in "George Carlin".

 

Awesome! The 2-party system is BS..so I feel ya.

[Party @ the Moontower]

I was in New Orleans a few weeks ago and had lengthy conversations with about a half-dozen residents who rode out the storm. Their comments were unanimous:

 

1) The federal government waited too long. BUT ONLY BECAUSE THE STATE/LOCAL GOVERNMENT WAS ABSOLUTELY PARALYZED AND THE FEDS SHOULD HAVE FORCED THEIR WAY IN WHEN THE STATE WENT WEAK IN THE KNEES.

2) The local cops were useless and turned and ran.

3) Roving bands of local thieves and looters were the biggest worry. They should have been shot on sight.

 

I just saw on the news that assault rifles and ammunition are being snapped up in Louisiana. Sounds like the residents won't be taken by surprise again. Good for them.

 

Good for them , I'm going in early 2009 for the 1st time. From what I have read and seen on news reports, not a lot has changed for the better.Very sad.

[mountain bed]

b2, I'm not busting on you man, but it kind of saddens me to see you so cynical at your age. Trust me, I'm a natural-born cynic myself, but we saw history being made tonight. Whether it's for good or ill remains to be seen.

[solace]

b2, I'm not busting on you man, but it kind of saddens me to see you so cynical at your age. Trust me, I'm a natural-born cynic myself, but we saw history being made tonight. Whether it's for good or ill remains to be seen.

 

come on now... republican or democrat, black or white, unless you're a total fucking racist, what happened tonight (no matter the outcome in November) made history and has changed the course of history in the US and the face of American politics for life.

 

how that can be construed as anything short of amazing and for good, is beyond me.

 

even if i find McCain's 'congrats' ad to be a sort of smug attempt to 'be the bigger man', the text of it is right on

[mountain bed]

Oh, I meant that what will happen during a possible Barack presidency remains to be seen. I think this is quite possibly the best thing to happen to American politics in my lifetime. I'm truly stoked, Kyle. Sorry if my post made you think otherwise.

[solace]

ahh, ok

 

*phew*

[Duck-Billed Catechist]

[viatroy]

 

 

I'm concerned about b2's young cynicism too -- I'll admit to my fair share of cynicism, but that's a result of 40 years watching the progressive gains made with blood, sweat and tears being pissed away by policies tilted towards those who don't need the government's assistance but are the main beneficiaries. I absolutely agree that special interest money on both sides is a disgrace and skews the priorities of elected officials. As in "HEY! You guys are supposed to work for US!" But in the spirit of perfecting the union, there ARE important moments that present the opportunity to correct what's wrong. Seeing a self-made, intelligent, focused public servant, particularly one that's not white, rise to the top (and with considerable grace) reawakens the idealism that democracy is the best system we've seen, and through collective effort it can be improved.

[Spawn's dad]

I know I'm about to demonize myself, but probably not. I have no faith in either major party to represent anything more than their interests, and our system is so fucked up that there's no point in voting independent. So I won't.

 

A no vote holds the same power as a vote for any of the non major candidates.

 

I might write in "George Carlin".

 

good for you, man. I'd prefer to see you try and fuck the system into change, but perhaps ambivalence is a step in the right direction.

[Sir Stewart]

bobbob - you seem to work really hard at being a cynic. It's okay to be moved by Obama's candidacy. C'mere.

[MrRain422]

I think it's good to be a little cynical, but only when that cynicism reflects reality and doesn't dictate what your reality is. I'm pretty cynical about the two party system myself, and Obama is lacking in a couple areas so he's not my ideal candidate, but it's a falsehood that the parties are always exactly as right and as wrong as each other, and it's a falsehood that both parties are always exactly as responsible and exactly as corrupt as one another, and it's a falsehood that their differences on policy are always too minor to be significant. Sometimes it's true, but this time it isn't. Sometimes too much cynicism leads to the worse of two evils being elected because people thought that they were too wise about the system to bother learning anything about the candidates or the issues.

[MrRain422]

Oh, also, I wouldn't say that the speech really made me feel any more patriotic than I did before, but I did get a little emotional when the camera would pan to some older African-American audience member who was getting choked up. Every time I had to wonder just how long that person had been waiting to see this moment, what kind of things they'd endured earlier in their life that would have made a moment like that seem impossible and how impossible it even seemed to me not long ago. It was a pretty special moment.

[Central Scrutinizer]

Here's hoping Obama connects with young adults as well as this guy did.

Wilco. Now.

[Central Scrutinizer]

Easy. Well, easy in the sense that it's only two steps, but it'll be a pain in the ass to do (at least #1), so it's not quite easy.

 

1. Eliminate the sugar trust/lobby.

2. Use the cane sugar to make biofuel, like Brazil already does.

 

I've brought it up time in time again...

 

Two words:

 

[Central Scrutinizer]

Do you mean to say that whomever is elected that the war will not end immediately or that he will be responsible for sparking more war?

"I will rebuild our military to meet future conflicts."

[Central Scrutinizer]

They're not talking about algae that's floating around in the lakes and rivers, rather large-scale farmed ponds using algae that's been genetically modified to produce oil.

 

Ever seen a sugar cane plantation? I have. How much sugar do you think you get from that huge, bamboo-like stem? And how much work and land does it take to produce it? Massive burn offs, destruction of the Everglades' ecosystem - we're be much better growing this stuff in some slimy ponds in the middle of nowhere.

 

And we need new nuke plants, too. Lots of them.

I always assumed they'd use sugar beets, which are easier to deal with.

 

That said, algae ponds, through hydroponics, can be built like plants. This was explored decades ago as an approach to creating food for the starving -- algae tofu!

[Hixter]

it's a falsehood that the parties are always exactly as right and as wrong as each other, and it's a falsehood that both parties are always exactly as responsible and exactly as corrupt as one another

 

You're right; they're constantly outdoing each other when it comes to sleazy campaigning, corruption, immoral behavior and special interests. You're kidding yourself if you believe that the millions of dollars pumped into the 2 campaigns don't come with strings attached. There are a lot of interests with deep pockets and they're going to grab the president's ear via his wallet. But they'll do their best to hide it: http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/Conventions/...8622&page=1

[Central Scrutinizer]

People are hoping for a leader that can be trusted to follow. This guy can be.

I like how he turned the cliche breakup line on its head: "It's not me, it's you."

[MrRain422]

You're right; they're constantly outdoing each other when it comes to sleazy campaigning, corruption, immoral behavior and special interests. You're kidding yourself if you believe that the millions of dollars pumped into the 2 campaigns don't come with strings attached. There are a lot of interests with deep pockets and they're going to grab the president's ear via his wallet. But they'll do their best to hide it: http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/Conventions/...8622&page=1

 

I didn't claim that there would be no strings attached.

[Central Scrutinizer]

i agree with you. we'd all like to make up our own president, perfectly, and some would base every judgment on current events according to that subjective standard. reality is, we have two options to choose from, as usual. in view of that, i'd take obama over not only mccain but most other presidential candidates in my lifetime, which hasn't been short. i'd list the reasons why, but there are too many, and i listed them here 5 or 6 months ago. and now i'm tired. but satisfied.

I understand what you mean. I felt that on the night Bill Clinton spoke at the 92 DNC, and the Thomason-produced video about "Hope, Ark."

[Central Scrutinizer]

i realize you're not invested in either candidate, but have you ever been in the past? (i can understand if you haven't, this is only my 3rd or 4th time in the 20 or so years that i've been politically aware that i have)

 

when you are, it's easy to understand how something like this excites the base and fires people up.

I think b2 is being pragmatic. As high as you feel now, a week of the opponents' propaganda is going to lead to some fierce negativity.

 

That's assuming that everyone will pay as much attention to the RNC. To ignore it, one would be guilty of what they've held up against the opposition here and elsewhere over the past few years.

[Hixter]

Looks like Drudge is hinting at Alaskan governor Sarah Palin getting the nod as McCain's veep.

[Central Scrutinizer]

Yeah. Katrina was the republicans fault.

 

Never mind a completely incompetent local democratic party and an all around fucked up beauracracy that prevented anything from being done when it needed to be, regardless of who was running the thing.

Bush gutted FEMA, placed a patronage person at it's head and failed to fund shoring up and rebuilding the levies. He sent the Reservists to Iraq so that they had to move military from the Northeast over days rather than having sufficient numbers on hand.

 

To show his concern, they touchingly filmed Bush looking out his airplane window at the devastation -- from thousands of feet above it all.

 

The Republicans didn't cause Katrina. But the Bush administration royally screwed up in its aftermath.

 

This is bias, but the fact that New Orleans is democratic based likely added to the weak and uncoordinated response. Bush would have been more vigilant in his efforts if it happened in, say, Florida.

[Central Scrutinizer]

come on now... republican or democrat, black or white, unless you're a total fucking racist, what happened tonight (no matter the outcome in November) made history and has changed the course of history in the US and the face of American politics for life.

 

how that can be construed as anything short of amazing and for good, is beyond me.

 

even if i find McCain's 'congrats' ad to be a sort of smug attempt to 'be the bigger man', the text of it is right on

I'm not quite sure I understand what you're saying here. History was made last night. History was made when Bush was elected. History was made when Clinton was elected, Carter, Reagan, Nixon etc. etc.

 

If "the course of history" was changed by, say Al Sharpton or Jesse Jackson -- strictly the basis of color -- would it be equally "amazing and for good."

 

You are elated and excited, but please put what you're saying within context.