It's time for a New Election Thread

[mfwahl]

http://money.cnn.com/2008/10/15/smallbusin...sion=2008101611

CNN's fact check on Joe the Plumber's case.

 

A few interesting points:

 

Only 14% of small businesses make above $200,000

 

Only 2% of small businesses would be effected by Obama's tax increase.

 

The increase would only be applied to the amount above the cutoff for their tax break. In Joe the Plumber's case, the increase would be about $1500 for the whole year.

[bobbob1313]

Can we get a mulligan on this whole deal and just get ron Paul and dennis kucinich in the front seats?

[bleedorange]

Can we get a mulligan on this whole deal and just get ron Paul and dennis kucinich in the front seats?

 

You know, a Hillary Clinton presidency is looking real good to me right now.

 

EDIT: Doesn't an Obama win pretty much kill her presidential aspirations?

[Duck-Billed Catechist]

is it profits of 250K or income of 250K that he's planning on raising taxes for? i thought it was income.

Well, it's income, but expenses are written off, yes? So it's effectively profit, eh?

[Spawn's dad]

it's personal income of $250k or above, that Obama's tax plan concerns, not business income.

So, if Joe the plumber pulls $250k in personal income from his own business - that's what's at issue.

 

No? Perhaps I'm out of my element and should shut the fuck up, Donnie.

 

 

If it's an S corp it's personal income.

[John Smith]

a lot of small businesses file as individuals and, hence, would fall under this plan. that's the issue.

 

Yes MOST small businesses file as a schedule C business and pay taxes on their individual return. Of course as a schedule C they still get to deduct expenses and there are tax planing tricks to help them get more in retirement funds than the average 401-k type employee AND they can set up specific types of medical plans that make all medical payments deductible (though this can be dangerous if more than jsut family works for you) But I seriously doubt that joe plummer really is looking into buying anything.

 

 

Here

[Mrs. Peel]

So it has come out that he isn't a licensed plumber, even though it seems to be required in his city. Has McCain possibly wrecked his business by putting him in the spotlight?

[bjorn_skurj]

You know, a Hillary Clinton presidency is looking real good to me right now.

 

EDIT: Doesn't an Obama win pretty much kill her presidential aspirations?

Pretty much. If Obama tanks, it will be a Republican in '12, not her.

[Guest Jules]

hey there ho there

 

I just got raked over the coals for a 15% cost reduction. I told them to fuck off, you can't get blood from a rock. Plus, how will I pay for my kid's fancy daycare and my wife's wardrobe if I give you a fucking cost reduction, asshole.

 

I think I'm underpaid.

 

Edit: right thread?

[Moe_Syzlak]

You know, a Hillary Clinton presidency is looking real good to me right now.

Why exactly? As many were fond of pointing out on this board during the primaries, Hill and Barry have extremely similar platforms. Both have limited experience (unless you count First Lady as Executive experience). And it seems to me, Obama is a charismatic leader that, although many of you seem to want to hold that against him, was one of the reason Reagan was so successful. The other has the Clinton baggage which was incredibly divisive (although I don't really fault her for that) during Bill's terms. Do you just think 1600 could use more of a woman's touch?

[lost highway]

I think either way there is a chance for a Clinton presidency in '12. Not a strong or certain one, but within the realm of possibility. I think McCain's Presidential ambitions have about 19 days left of steam in them. Will see where he lands. Either way he's not my pick for fixing our deficit when his campaign now has a deficit. Maybe he should ask China for a loan to run more ad's about Ayers.

[solace]

Why exactly? As many were fond of pointing out on this board during the primaries, Hill and Barry have extremely similar platforms. Both have limited experience (unless you count First Lady as Executive experience). And it seems to me, Obama is a charismatic leader that, although many of you seem to want to hold that against him, was one of the reason Reagan was so successful. The other has the Clinton baggage which was incredibly divisive (although I don't really fault her for that) during Bill's terms. Do you just think 1600 could use more of a woman's touch?

 

spot on.

[bleedorange]

Why exactly? As many were fond of pointing out on this board during the primaries, Hill and Barry have extremely similar platforms. Both have limited experience (unless you count First Lady as Executive experience). And it seems to me, Obama is a charismatic leader that, although many of you seem to want to hold that against him, was one of the reason Reagan was so successful. The other has the Clinton baggage which was incredibly divisive (although I don't really fault her for that) during Bill's terms. Do you just think 1600 could use more of a woman's touch?

 

I find Clinton to be more palatable than Obama from a political perspective. Aside from her eventual health care crusading if elected, I feel she would have floated a lot more towards the center on a lot of issues.

 

 

I think either way there is a chance for a Clinton presidency in '12. Not a strong or certain one, but within the realm of possibility. I think McCain's Presidential ambitions have about 19 days left of steam in them. Will see where he lands. Either way he's not my pick for fixing our deficit when his campaign now has a deficit. Maybe he should ask China for a loan to run more ad's about Ayers.

 

I don't see how an Obama win could lead to a Clinton presidency in 2012. The only way would be if he resigns, chooses not to run again, or if the unthinkable and unfortunate happened and Biden had to finish it out, leading to an eventual primary challenge.

 

Plus, if Obama gets 2 terms, I don't see the reins being handed to Clinton. I guess you never know, though.

[lost highway]

I find Clinton to be more palatable than Obama from a political perspective. Aside from her eventual health care crusading if elected.

 

If everyone would have followed Hillary's work in the 90's and been had a little more backbone on standing up to lobbyists we wouldn't have the wreck of a health care system we have right now. Clinton did more to try to fix health care than anyone yet, and unfortunately this country was a little too backwards to get on board at that point.

[Moe_Syzlak]

I find Clinton to be more palatable than Obama from a political perspective. Aside from her eventual health care crusading if elected, I feel she would have floated a lot more towards the center on a lot of issues.

If you say so. Perplexing to me, but whatever. Same platform= same platform. I'm just worried (and I'm not accusing you of this) that many seem to hating on Obama just because he is winning. If he wins, hold him accountable, push your locally elected officials for the representation of your views, etc. But don't automatically oppose everything just because your horse didn't win. Again, not speaking directly to you, bleedorange. I would say the same thing to Obama supporters should McCain win.

[Spawn's dad]

If Hillary were the nominee I'd have voted for McCain.

[MattZ]

I feel she would have floated a lot more towards the center on a lot of issues.

 

A few pages back, Rove criticized Obama for floating too much toward the center (or right) on issues -- his broad tax cuts, criticizing McCain's healthcare proposal as a tax hike, etc.

 

Which is it?

[jenbobblehead]

Has anyone else seen/heard this:

Turns out that Joe Wurzelbacher from the Toledo event is a close relative of Robert Wurzelbacher of Milford, Ohio. Who's Robert Wurzelbacher? Only Charles Keating's son-in-law and the former senior vice president of American Continental, the parent company of the infamous Lincoln Savings and Loan. The now retired elder Wurzelbacher is also a major contributor to Republican causes giving well over $10,000 in the last few years.

[bleedorange]

If you say so. Perplexing to me, but whatever. Same platform= same platform. I'm just worried (and I'm not accusing you of this) that many seem to hating on Obama just because he is winning. If he wins, hold him accountable, push your locally elected officials for the representation of your views, etc. But don't automatically oppose everything just because your horse didn't win. Again, not speaking directly to you, bleedorange. I would say the same thing to Obama supporters should McCain win.

 

There were some differences in their campaigns. Plus, when I look beyond campaign promises, I see Obama moving farther left and I compare a Clinton presidency to what we had under her husband. Is any of that fair or necessarily true? I don't know. It's just how I feel towards both candidates.

 

I haven't liked Obama since I started reading about all the candidates, learning who he was and what his campaign was running on. It has nothing to do with winning or losing. Besides, I don't even have a horse in this race, unless "Not-Obama" is a horse.

 

I hope he does well, I've said it before, but right now, all I can look forward to is 2010 when, the Democratic gains in Congress are sure to be scaled back. The sooner Pelosi and Reid are no longer leading the respective chambers, the better.

[bleedorange]

A few pages back, Rove criticized Obama for floating too much toward the center (or right) on issues -- his broad tax cuts, criticizing McCain's healthcare proposal as a tax hike, etc.

 

Which is it?

 

That wasn't the point he was making:

 

Mr. Obama is trying to make the case that his lack of experience or record should not disqualify him. But in doing so, he seems to recognize that the U.S. is still a center-right country. His TV ads promise tax cuts and his radio ads savage Mr. McCain's health-care plan as a tax increase. It's a startling campaign conversion for the most liberal member of the Senate. We'll know on Election Day if he is able to get away with it.

[Analogman]

Pretty much. If Obama tanks, it will be a Republican in '12, not her.

 

She said the other day she would not run for President again.

[solace]

Has anyone else seen/heard this:

 

yes.

 

Joe Plumber is also an Investor:

 

http://www.manta.com/coms2/dnbcompany_cyh9br

[myboyblue]

Has anyone else seen/heard this:

 

 

yes.

 

Joe Plumber is also an Investor:

 

http://www.manta.com/coms2/dnbcompany_cyh9br

 

If these things are true, it may be that final nail in the coffin that people were talking about earlier today.

[jenbobblehead]

yes.

 

Joe Plumber is also an Investor:

 

http://www.manta.com/coms2/dnbcompany_cyh9br

But he doesn't have a license to be a plumber?

[solace]

If these things are true, it may be that final nail in the coffin that people were talking about earlier today.

 

he's most definitely related (somehow) to the son-in-law of Charles Keating:

 

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html...756C0A964958260

 

 

 

A son-in-law of Charles H. Keating Jr. pleaded guilty today to three Federal fraud counts in connection with the collapse of the Lincoln Savings and Loan Assocation and agreed to cooperate with prosecutors as they pursue their case against Mr. Keating. The guilty plea was the sixth from executives and business associates of Lincoln and its parent company, but was the first crack in what until now had been a united Keating family defense against the charges in the case.

 

Mr. Keating and a son, Charles H. Keating 3d, still face an array of fraud and racketeering charges brought against them in a 77-count Federal indictment issued last year. Their trial is scheduled for August in Federal District Court here. Mr. Keating was convicted last year on separate fraud counts in a California state court and is serving a 10-year prison sentence. Bad Loans to a Hotel

 

The guilty plea today was from Robert M. Wurzelbacher Jr., who had been a senior vice president of Lincoln's parent company, the American Continental Corporation of Phoenix, and the chief executive of an investment firm owned by Lincoln Savings. Mr. Wurzelbacher, who is 38 years old, is married to the former Elizabeth Keating, one of Mr. Keating's daughters.

 

 

Robert Wurzelbacher Jr. is a prominent Republican supporter who has donated well over $10k in recent elections.

 

it's not known exactly just how Robert & Joe are related yet, but that article is from '92 which would make Robert 54 years old, Joe is 34 years old right now.......