Rock and Roll Hall of Fame

[Littlebear]

What difference does personal preference make in this conversation? None. None of your points are valid arguments against Madonna being influential and trailblazing.

 

And what are your valid arguments? There's only one objectivity to your side: she had success, and every success has an influencial power.

 

But how has Madonna opened the doors to female artists? In which kind of way? Can you name me some female artists influenced by Madonna? And explain me the good thing of it?

 

Sorry, I know my questions bother you. But admit the fact that your tentative to legitimate her "value" is cheap at best - so far.

[Moss]

Photographs by way of Rolling Stone magazine:

 

Performance

Backstage

 

There is actually a really good interview with Beck in the new Guitar World magazine. He says some pretty friendly things about his friend Jimmy Page. For some reason I thought there was more bad blood between them than there was.

[Analogman]

There is actually a really good interview with Beck in the new Guitar World magazine. He says some pretty friendly things about his friend Jimmy Page. For some reason I thought there was more bad blood between them than there was.

 

I've always had that notion also. The whole deal about Truth being a Zeppelin rip-off, and Jimmy's statement about Beck's Bolero ("wrote it, produced it, played on it"), etc. I recall reading these things more than once. I guess they left that behind long ago.

[Sir Stewart]

And what are your valid arguments? There's only one objectivity to your side: she had success, and every success has an influencial power.

 

But how has Madonna opened the doors to female artists? In which kind of way? Can you name me some female artists influenced by Madonna? And explain me the good thing of it?

 

Sorry, I know my questions bother you. But admit the fact that your tentative to legitimate her "value" is cheap at best - so far.

 

Why would your questions "bother" me? That's just a weird thing to say.

Apparently you're not schooled in what the music industry was like for female artists by the early 80s, but it's a fact that the Madonna's rise caused a fundamental shift in the way women were perceived in the mainstream - no longer toys to be sold, but toys to sell themselves.

Also, female artists influenced by Madonna:

Mariah Carey

Britney Spears

Christina Aquilera

Shirley Manson

Tori Amos

...partial list. Listen, I'm not trying to get you to become a Madonna fan - and you can argue that the "good thing of it" isn't there: meaning you don't like Madonna or many of the artists she's influenced - that's fine. It's also beside the point. But you deny she opened doors. There, you're wrong.

[John Smith]

I am no Madonna fan by any stretch of the imagination. If I was not married and did not have a daughter my awareness of her would only be fleeting at best. But this back and forth about her is becoming tedious. It is, in my mind, very apparent the impact she has had on the music industry from day one. From marketing to music she has done it all and done it on a grand scale. How much is original and how much is derivative could be argued, but the scale she works on is pretty huge. And her influence is fairly widespread also. Now is this enough? Is she merely a female version of KISS via her constant promotion and approach to music and image as product to be sold and exploited? Possibly.

 

 

Edit:I guess this part is moot...

 

If it were clear cut she would have been included in the current year

[dondoboy]

Yeah, why isn't KISS in there?

[Analogman]

I am no Madonna fan by any stretch of the imagination. If I was not married and did not have a daughter my awareness of her would only be fleeting at best. But this back and forth about her is becoming tedious. It is, in my mind, very apparent the impact she has had on the music industry from day one. From marketing to music she has done it all and done it on a grand scale. How much is original and how much is derivative could be argued, but the scale she works on is pretty huge. And her influence is fairly widespread also. Now is this enough? Is she merely a female version of KISS via her constant promotion and approach to music and image as product to be sold and exploited? Possibly. If it were clear cut she would have been included in the current year

[John Smith]

She got in last year:

 

Rock and Roll Hall of Fame Inducts Madonna

 

In my best Emilee Litella voice...never mind.

 

She did? Then what is the whole arguement about? whether she shoudl be kicked out or allowed to stay? I don't get it, and apparently I don't pay enough attention to the hall to care. Are Elvis or the Beatles in then?

[Sir Stewart]

In my best Emilee Litella voice...never mind.

 

She did? Then what is the whole arguement about? whether she shoudl be kicked out or allowed to stay? I don't get it, and apparently I don't pay enough attention to the hall to care. Are Elvis or the Beatles in then?

 

All the quoted posts in the Madonna discussion lead back to this one. Not sure why Sunshine mentioned her.

[Analogman]

Ross Halfin has posted some photos on his blog.

 

I think Joe Perry looks like Mrs. Robinson (the hair).

[yermom]

I think Joe Perry looks like Mrs. Robinson (the hair).

And maybe a bit of eyeliner too?

[Moss]

I've always had that notion also. The whole deal about Truth being a Zeppelin rip-off, and Jimmy's statement about Beck's Bolero ("wrote it, produced it, played on it"), etc. I recall reading these things more than once. I guess they left that behind long ago.

 

I suppose it has been 40 years! Beck actually states in that interview that for Becks Bolero Page wrote the rhythm guitar. Beck says he wrote the lead guitar parts and melodies. He talked about how they have known each other since they were 14, introduced by Beck's sister. Does not look like the interview is posted on the guitar world website but if I find it I will post it.

[jff]

I suppose it has been 40 years! Beck actually states in that interview that for Becks Bolero Page wrote the rhythm guitar. Beck says he wrote the lead guitar parts and melodies. He talked about how they have known each other since they were 14, introduced by Beck's sister. Does not look like the interview is posted on the guitar world website but if I find it I will post it.

 

Please do. Is this the "guitars heroes" issue, or "classic rock guitar gods", or something like that? I saw that on the newsstand a couple weeks ago and almost bought it. Looked like there were a lot of good interviews.

[Littlebear]

Why would your questions "bother" me? That's just a weird thing to say.

Apparently you're not schooled in what the music industry was like for female artists by the early 80s, but it's a fact that the Madonna's rise caused a fundamental shift in the way women were perceived in the mainstream - no longer toys to be sold, but toys to sell themselves.

Also, female artists influenced by Madonna:

Mariah Carey

Britney Spears

Christina Aquilera

Shirley Manson

Tori Amos

...partial list. Listen, I'm not trying to get you to become a Madonna fan - and you can argue that the "good thing of it" isn't there: meaning you don't like Madonna or many of the artists she's influenced - that's fine. It's also beside the point. But you deny she opened doors. There, you're wrong.

 

Sorry, but all I understand is that she opened doors to women who can now sell themselves as toys instead of being sold as toys - which kind of progress that is, when other women decided to not be toys long time ago?

 

I mean, I'm a fan of the Shangri-Las, of Jackie De Shannon, of Bobbie Gentry, all female stars who were quite independent in the mainstream. I don't know what you're talking about - you probably repeat what you read about Madonna, but to me, it's simply a joke. Doors were opened already to female artists before Madonna. They talk of her marketing genius or something. I'll call that marketing bullshit.

[Moss]

Please do. Is this the "guitars heroes" issue, or "classic rock guitar gods", or something like that? I saw that on the newsstand a couple weeks ago and almost bought it. Looked like there were a lot of good interviews.

 

It's got a picture of the new supergroup "Chicken foot" on the cover (Satriani, Hagar, Michael Anthony and Chad Smith). Should be on the stands because it's brand new.

[mountain bed]

I've always had that notion also. The whole deal about Truth being a Zeppelin rip-off, and Jimmy's statement about Beck's Bolero ("wrote it, produced it, played on it"), etc. I recall reading these things more than once. I guess they left that behind long ago.

Innaresting...I thought Truth came out just a bit before LZ I, but I'm not 100% sure on that one. It's arguable that if it weren't for the ego clashes involved with that first Beck group (splitting up right before they were to play Woodstock) they might have become as big as Zeppelin. But who knows?

[calvino]

Innaresting...I thought Truth came out just a bit before LZ I, but I'm not 100% sure on that one. It's arguable that if it weren't for the ego clashes involved with that first Beck group (splitting up right before they were to play Woodstock) they might have become as big as Zeppelin. But who knows?

 

I love Turth and Beck-Ola, but I kinda glad that group broke up. Wood, Stewart, and Beck all went on to create some great music. Don't think they could have created it together.

[Analogman]

Innaresting...I thought Truth came out just a bit before LZ I, but I'm not 100% sure on that one. It's arguable that if it weren't for the ego clashes involved with that first Beck group (splitting up right before they were to play Woodstock) they might have become as big as Zeppelin. But who knows?

 

I never thought of that. I think it was primarily over the song You Shook Me. In the liner notes of the last re-master, Jeff talks about why they did not play Woodstock. It seems to me he was never satisfied with the music. He also had Mickie Most trying to make him a pop star vs. what he actually wanted to do. Truth and Beck-Ola were thrown together pretty quick - in a matter of days, which is part of the charm I think. But according to Jeff, they really needed some songs, and did not have any.

 

Truth - August 1968

Led Zeppelin - January 12 1969

[jff]

Truth - August 1968

Led Zeppelin - January 12 1969

 

Thanks for the dates. I thought Truth was first, but could not confirm.

 

It's an indisputable fact that Zeppelin blatantly ripped off a LOT of material from other artists.

 

It's got a picture of the new supergroup "Chicken foot" on the cover (Satriani, Hagar, Michael Anthony and Chad Smith). Should be on the stands because it's brand new.

 

I must've been looking at a different magazine, but I'll keep an eye out for that one.

[Analogman]

True. I think a lot of those British Blues bands were doing You Shook Me.

[BassMan77]

Besides the fact that they both covered You Shook Me, Truth and LZ I dont sound very similar. Lots of those 60's artists were very jealous of the success Zeppelin eventually had. Wether it be Keith Richards or Pete Townsend, you can find plenty of jealousy from interviews they gave back in the day.

[jff]

Besides the fact that they both covered You Shook Me, Truth and LZ I dont sound very similar. Lots of those 60's artists were very jealous of the success Zeppelin eventually had. Wether it be Keith Richards or Pete Townsend, you can find plenty of jealousy from interviews they gave back in the day.

 

I agree Truth and Zeppelin are not SO similar as to be considered theft. But it's not just "You Shook Me", and it's not just Beck, or Small Faces. Zeppelin stole from all over the place. So much so that one could argue it was their standard practice. (For the record, I like Led Zeppelin and think they wrote a lot of great original material.)

 

Compare Page's "Black Mountain Side" with Bert Janch's "Blackwaterside". Note for note rip off, except Page's is instrumental and he added a sub-par part to the end.

 

It's easy to find other examples on the web. Here's a start:

 

http://therecord.blogs.com/blogovich/2007/...eppelin-as.html

[Synthesizer Patel]

before madonna women were press-ganged into girl groups and solo artists slots. they weren't paid. they weren't ever allowed to write their own songs. couldn't dance. weren't allowed to be liked by young people. influenced nothing. 22nd June 1981 saw the last public hanging of a female recording artist, and within 2 weeks they were given the vote. before madonna there was no such thing as music. before madonna sex didn't exist. before madonna there was no madonna. before madonna everyone got beaten for everything always. madonna can fit the rock and roll hall of fame under her tongue. i could go on.

[Analogman]

I agree Truth and Zeppelin are not SO similar as to be considered theft. But it's not just "You Shook Me", and it's not just Beck, or Small Faces. Zeppelin stole from all over the place. So much so that one could argue it was their standard practice. (For the record, I like Led Zeppelin and think they wrote a lot of great original material.)

 

Compare Page's "Black Mountain Side" with Bert Janch's "Blackwaterside". Note for note rip off, except Page's is instrumental and he added a sub-par part to the end.

 

It's easy to find other examples on the web. Here's a start:

 

http://therecord.blogs.com/blogovich/2007/...eppelin-as.html

 

, Spirit - Taurus, etc.

 

I've read about all of that stuff more than once.

[BassMan77]

All artists "borrow" from other ones. I can cite plenty of instances of the Stones or even The Beatles were they borrowed as well. In most cases, Zeppelin made it there own. I mean, Whole Lotta Love doesnt sound at all like Dixon's version. Usually it was a case of not changing the lyrics enough...I mean, how many blues songs have nearly identical lyrics?